Blue Badge loophole?

[green_and_mean]

sailor sam:

 

 

Presuming this is a direct quote from the law, and it reads as such, it certainly says that if the holder is in the car when the vehicle is parked that is sufficient grounds to use the blue badge. It does not mention any benefit or not the holder has as affecting the use of the badge unless this is stated elsewhere. I don't know where you are getting that from.

 

The danger is that people make assumptions all the time on what a paraphrase of the law says - in a sense, interpreting someone's interpretation of it - which can lead to getting it wrong, if you can, it's always best to have a look at what the law actually says.

 

In the case in this thread, reading what the law says, the use of the badge is totally valid even if the holder remains in the car.

 

It is indeed the law http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/682/regulation/14/made there is no legal requirement to show who is to benefit and it would be ridiculous to do so. How could anyone decide at what point there is a benefit? The BB holder may like being close to their spouse so if they go out in the car to buy some fish and chips for the spouse it would be a benefit to be able to wait outside rather than wait in a car park due to being unable to walk from a car park to the chip shop. No doubt Sam would see this as abuse since the BB holder is not getting fish and chips but I am able as are all able bodied people to accompany our partners to buy fish and chips even if we are not hungry ourselves, so why should a disabled person be disadvantaged due to a disability and have to wait half a mile away in a car park?

[sailor sam]

This one is from Directgov;

 

Misuse of the Blue Badge

 

Local councils can take away a badge if the badge holder misuses it - for example, by allowing other people to use it.

If you have a badge, it must only be used for your benefit. If a trip is for someone else and you are a passenger and staying in the car, you cannot use the badge to let them benefit from free parking.

It is an offence for people other than the badge holder to take advantage of the parking concessions provided under the scheme. The maximum fine if someone is convicted is £1,000 plus any additional penalty for the related parking offence.

If you think that a Blue Badge is being misused, report the matter to your local council. Try to get as many details as possible from the badge on display (name, serial number, expiry date etc). The council will investigate and take action if the badge can be shown to be displayed fraudulently

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/disabledpeople/motoringandtransport/dg_4001061

 

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

u My mother has been a disabled badge holder for many years and in her opinion, the BB is not being used correctly in this case as the disabled person remains in the car while the able-bodied passenger 'enjoys' the benefit of parking nearer to the school which is only available for the badge holder.

 

I often accompany my wife to school to pick up the kids and wait outside whilst she goes inside to collect them (as it gets rather busy inside) maybe I should wait a few hundred yards down the street or not go at all as it now appears there is a new law on how many parents are permitted to collect a child!!?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Like G&M I fail to see how you can say it is [Edit] NOT to to a disabled parent's benefit to be able to collect their child from school. For me, when I am able to do it is one of the joys of the day.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Bernie_the_Bolt
Whoops!, crucial word left out

[green_and_mean]

This one is from Directgov;

 

Misuse of the Blue Badge

 

Local councils can take away a badge if the badge holder misuses it - for example, by allowing other people to use it.

If you have a badge, it must only be used for your benefit. If a trip is for someone else and you are a passenger and staying in the car, you cannot use the badge to let them benefit from free parking.

It is an offence for people other than the badge holder to take advantage of the parking concessions provided under the scheme. The maximum fine if someone is convicted is £1,000 plus any additional penalty for the related parking offence.

If you think that a Blue Badge is being misused, report the matter to your local council. Try to get as many details as possible from the badge on display (name, serial number, expiry date etc). The council will investigate and take action if the badge can be shown to be displayed fraudulently

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/disabledpeople/motoringandtransport/dg_4001061

 

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Local Councils cannot simply take away a blue badge just because it is abused so that quote is wrong from the outset.

[sailor sam]

And finally this;

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/259428/281009/bluebadgescheme.pdf

 

If your still not convinced then I suggest you contcat you local Department For Transport office for clarification.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[sailor sam]

Local Councils cannot simply take away a blue badge just because it is abused so that quote is wrong from the outset.

 

In that case why don't you take it up with Directgov and 'educate' them?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

And finally this;

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/adobepdf/259428/281009/bluebadgescheme.pdf

 

If your still not convinced then I suggest you contcat you local Department For Transport office for clarification.

 

 

Which quite usefully says this:

 

Your Blue Badge will help you to park close to your destination, either as a passenger or driver.

 

I know it says other things too but then as others have been selectively quoting, I thought "when in Rome" . . .

[sailor sam]

Like G&M I fail to see how you can say it is to to a disabled parent's benefit to be able to collect their child from school. For me, when I am able to do it is one of the joys of the day.

 

FFS! because the 'disabled parent' isn't doing the collectiing! He remains sitting in the car while an abled-bodied person does it!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

Like G&M I fail to see how you can say it is to to a disabled parent's benefit to be able to collect their child from school. For me, when I am able to do it is one of the joys of the day.

 

Child: Mummy why doesn't Daddy ever come with you to meet me from School like Jimmies Dad does?

 

Mother: Thats because Daddy has no legs son and has to park a few streets away or the nasty Policeman will arrest him!

 

Child: Thats not fair!!

 

Mother: If life was fair son they would bring in a law to stop disabled people being discriminated against.

 

Child: When I grow up mummy I will become an MP and pass a law called the Disability Discrimation Act then all disabled people will be able to collect their kids from school without fear of arrest or nasty people calling them names.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

FFS! because the 'disabled parent' isn't doing the collectiing! He remains sitting in the car while an abled-bodied person does it!

 

That's pretty narrow minded of you. Are you suggesting that they should, perhaps, be denied the joy of going to collect their child from school because they are disabled.

 

What you are not getting is that we have no idea of the nature of the disability or disabilities that this person has. You are taking a very narrow view of what "benefit" means and closing your mind in the absence of facts.

[green_and_mean]

In that case why don't you take it up with Directgov and 'educate' them?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

I am sure they are able to read the law just the same as anyone else. A Badge cannot be taken away it can only be refused to be renewed and that is only if the person has 3 relevant convictions against them. I deal ith BB abuse as part of my daily work which includes presecuting abuse so I'd like to think I have rather more knowledge than someone relying on googled web quotes and the personal experience of their mother.

[sailor sam]

Child: Mummy why doesn't Daddy ever come with you to meet me from School like Jimmies Dad does?

 

Mother: Thats because Daddy has no legs son and has to park a few streets away or the nasty Policeman will arrest him!

 

Child: Thats not fair!!

 

Mother: If life was fair son they would bring in a law to stop disabled people being discriminated against.

 

Child: When I grow up mummy I will become an MP and pass a law called the Disability Discrimation Act then all disabled people will be able to collect their kids from school without fear of arrest or nasty people calling them names.

 

God, this says it all! How do you know that the disbaled person in the OP's situ has no legs? Assuming he has legs and is able to get to and from his car from his house, it is safe to assume that he can get to and from his car at the school end also. In which case, if he (the BB holder) leaves the car (even with the abled-bodied person sitting in it) on the yellows while taking the child into the school himself, then BINGO! Problem solved. Use of badge is fully compliant! Debate over!

 

By all means G & M, run your example by the DFT and see if they will amend the rules how you think they should be.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

God, this says it all! How do you know that the disbaled person in the OP's situ has no legs? Assuming he has legs and is able to get to and from his car from his house, it is safe to assume that he can get to and from his car at the school end also. In which case, if he (the BB holder) leaves the car (even with the abled-bodied person sitting in it) on the yellows while taking the child into the school himself, then BINGO! Problem solved. Use of badge is fully compliant! Debate over!

 

By all means G & M, run your example by the DFT and see if they will amend the rules how you think they should be.

 

 

This, IMHO is where you are going wrong. It is not safe to assume, particularly when you are being judgmental about others. You wouldn't want others to assume from your posts that you are a prejudiced bigot would you?

[sailor sam]

That's pretty narrow minded of you. Are you suggesting that they should, perhaps, be denied the joy of going to collect their child from school because they are disabled.

 

What you are not getting is that we have no idea of the nature of the disability or disabilities that this person has. You are taking a very narrow view of what "benefit" means and closing your mind in the absence of facts.

 

I suggest to re-read post #33 then. I'm not suggesting anyone should be denied anything. I'm merely pointing out that the 'benefits' of the BB scheme apply to the holder and ONLY the holder. If the holder remains in the car while an abled-bodied passenger walks the kid into school while the car is parked on DY's, then the rules are being broken as you can clearly see from the links I have provided.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

I suggest to re-read post #33 then. I'm not suggesting anyone should be denied anything. I'm merely pointing out that the 'benefits' of the BB scheme apply to the holder and ONLY the holder. If the holder remains in the car while an abled-bodied passenger walks the kid into school while the car is parked on DY's, then the rules are being broken as you can clearly see from the links I have provided.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Its a shame the law ie the Disabled persons badge regs and the Disability Discrimination Act disagrees with you.

[ForestChav]

But the holder is in the car which is ALL the law states is required to use the badge!

[green_and_mean]

But the holder is in the car which is ALL the law states is required to use the badge!

 

I think Sam must have found an ammendment that says the BB holder must exit the car everytime the car stops or risk arrest, lol.

[ForestChav]

I think Sam must have found an ammendment that says the BB holder must exit the car everytime the car stops or risk arrest, lol.

quite possibly :s

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

It also seems possible that Sam thinks that "only" means that it is abuse if anyone else derives incidental benefit (such as say keeping dry in the car when it is raining).

[sailor sam]

This, IMHO is where you are going wrong. It is not safe to assume, particularly when you are being judgmental about others. You wouldn't want others to assume from your posts that you are a prejudiced bigot would you?

 

 

What by posting accurate info as stated in the various sorces I have provided? Mmm, don't give a edit to be honest because my posts reflects what the rules are so if 'others' assume so, then they must also consider the authorities who make the rules to also to be 'prejudiced bigots'. Having lived with both a mother and father for over 10 years (father no longer with us) who are/were both disabled (father was confined to a wheel chair), I consiquently have some experience of the rules/regs but I hardly think I am prejudiced. How does the saying go about shooting the messenger?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Edited September 13, 2010 by IdaInFife
edited

[sailor sam]

I think Sam must have found an ammendment that says the BB holder must exit the car everytime the car stops or risk arrest, lol.

 

My god! You've almost got it!! It isn't an 'ammendment' but basically yes, to park using the BB correctly on DY's, the holder is expected to leave the car to obtain the advantage of parking closer to their desired destination. But the 'everytime the car stops or risk arrest' bit is just plain stupid.

 

Anyway, I've got better things to do than bang my head against a brick wall here and i've wasted enough time on this thread which, as far as i'm concerned has run it's course. The rest of you can contiinue with the debate if you wish with my blessing.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

The entire 'benefit' thing is a red herring it doesn't exist and is unenforceable. I live in a CPZ that is lets say 1-2pm I need a car outside my house for my personal use but get a lift to work and back from a neighbour. Am I abusing my badge if I leave it at home for the CPZ hours on a SYL? I go to collect my children from the Cinema but am not sure what time the film ends can I sit outside the Cinema on DYL and wait or should I park in the car park and expect the kids to walk in the dark on their own to meet me? BB fraud is hard enough to enforce without having to play judge and jury on genuine users to decide if they are using it only for their benefit.

[green_and_mean]

My god! You've almost got it!! It isn't an 'ammendment' but basically yes, to park using the BB correctly on DY's, the holder is expected to leave the car to obtain the advantage of parking closer to their desired destination. But the 'everytime the car stops or risk arrest' bit is just plain stupid.

 

Anyway, I've got better things to do than bang my head against a brick wall here and i've wasted enough time on this thread which, as far as i'm concerned has run it's course. The rest of you can contiinue with the debate if you wish with my blessing.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

So essentially you are stating the Law is wrong http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/682/made maybe you should point out the legislation that backs up your claim or just admit you are talking out of your proverbial backside.

[seanamarts]

This is getting silly now.. It clearly states 'The trip must be for your benefit only and you must be using the vehicle' Picking up his child is for his benefit and he IS the driver of the vehicle. He has NOT broken any legislation he has parked correctly.

Of course his partner may be able to pick up the child on her own.. but what if they are picking the child up after work or other activity. You dont know.. but he has not broken any rules.