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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Advice needed please: Paragon threatening me for statute barred debt


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Hi,

 

Im after some opinions and/or advice on the following please:

 

Paragon finance have recently contacted myself for an old debt - I say old as I haven't made a payment on the account nor have I spoken to anybody about it in paragon or associated debt company since approx 2002/2003: hence I am right to assume it is statute barred? My daughter is nearly 6 yo and I know for a fact I havent made payment nor spoken to anybody about this account since she was born so im confident that over 6 years has definately elapsed!

 

Over the past 5 weeks they have routinely sent me a letter a week saying that they have been trying to contact me etc (even though I have been on the electoral roll and lived at the address for nearly 4 years). The most recent letter (the fifth one) says they will be referring my account to a solicitor for court action if I dont call them, and that they intend to ccj me. Now my initial thought was that these letters are just "fishing" letters i.e. they know it is statute barred and are trying to get me to take the bait, I was thinking of just leaving the matter be and ignoring their threats. However, I am now tempted to do a statute barred letter but am worried about opening a can of worms. Should I just leave it until the Paragon solicitor contacts myself? Are this company likely to take me to court as threatened etc and whats everybodies thoughts please? The debt is approx 6k and the last time I spoke to them (c2002/2003 at the latest) I remember actually disputing the debt too, Paragon didnt address that dispute and then referred it to a dca, whom I have never spoken to, responded too nor made a payment too due to myself disputing the debt years ago....

 

I would like to be comfortable with my next course of action if I take any, but I am thinking if I should cover my back. If I send a letter saying I believe this to be statute barred, where will/could it go from there? Should I just class this as a fishing attempt etc. Any thought, insight experience would be trully appreciated.

 

Thanks

Edited by 700633744
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There has been a surge in this type of activity lately, things must be getting tough for the DCAs. :whoo:

Personally, if it were me, I would send the SB letter. Had a threat recently myself and I know the alleged debt was SB in 2001. Sent SB letter and, as yet, have heard nothing.

 

There is actually nothing wrong with them chasing a SB debt, but once you tell them that you know it is SB and you will not be paying, then they should cease all collection activity. Hope that helps.

Edited by harrassed senior
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HSenior reply good route to go down.................Just add a paragraph to the SB letter,that you suggest they discuss the matter with the solicitors they have threatened to use to allow them to explain what SB is before wasting your time...................or just wait until their solicitor(probably in house) contacts you..............As long as you are 100% sure of no payments no contacts confirming the debt,nothing to worry about.....FS

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Thanks,

 

If I send an SB can they keep sending em threatening letters - if they dispute are they likely to take me to court! Im 995 certain that I have neither written/ spoken nor paid anything in the past 6 years at least! I know my ex girlfriend may have returned some letters to them unopened after we split up but thats about it!

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if stat barred then send SB letter and have done with them, they can chase all they want but they wont be able to do diddly squat about it

 

after you have informed them it is SB then any letter they send just return unopened with SB in big letters on it, or bin them

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Hi there

if you really want to make ABSOLUTELY SURE then send a SAR request to the oroginal creditor. This will cost 10 GBP but it's probably 10 GBP well spent if it confirms that the debt is really SB'd.

 

Sometimes people forget that they might have made one tiddly payment after speaking to a DCA a few years ago --another good reason NEVER EVER speak to a DCA on the phone unless it's to wind them up.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Sorry for asking a rather silly question - if somebody knocks on your door about a stat barred debt, what do you say?

 

1 - I do not ackowledge the debtt

2 - It is stat barred and tell them to do one (politely)?

 

Thanks

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A two finger salute usually does the trick:lol:

 

You need not say anything

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having been away I never actually done a response saying statute barred - they have now sent me a letter saying they are going to issue me with a default notice if i dont get in touch wthin 7 days (feels like thety are fishing for a response): im pretty sure that they gave me a default about 7/8 years - can they keep defaulting me for a statute barred debt does anybody know?

 

Thanks

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Get in touch with Trading Standards and the OFT, it is very much against the OFT guidelines for them to issue a default so late in the day, even if they issue a default the alleged debt is STILL statute barred, the default being issued DOES NOT restart the statute barred clock.

 

You can also report them to the Information Commissioner and to the Ministry of Justice (these seem to be coming pro-active in stopping companies breaking the law).

 

Paragon are fishing in the dark here so you can quite happily ignore any doorstep callers or phone calls. Tell them the phone is automatically being recorded due to stalking calls and they will huff and puff.

 

You could also try the local CAB as they might be able to offer some help.

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Statute Barred is an ABSOLUTE 100% defence. THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO HERE.

 

Please STING them with Harrassment, extortion, Hospital, Psychiatric Counselling and whatever else you can sting them for.

 

These BARSTEWARDS need to be put out of their MISERY for GOOD.

 

Meanwhimle just toss any more letters from them UNOPENED back into the nearest letter box marked Return To sender.

 

Even if they DON'T have to pay at least give trhe sorters in the Post Office some amusement.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Good idea but i do this i keep all there letters then put them in a large A4 envelope with 2nd class stamp on it the post it in the post box they then have to pay RM for it as it cost more to send a large letter regardless.

PHOTOBUCKET TUTORIAL IS NOW DONE HERE IT IS

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  • 2 months later...

Have I done the right thing - they sent me a letter saying they would send somebody to my house (which would cost me money), 2 weeks later they did: I didnt confirm who I was then told him im not interested and to go away. Was this the correct course?

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If you don't tell them that it is Statute Barred and that you will not be paying, they will keep coming. Once you have told them and if they continue after that date, you have good grounds for complaint.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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You have to inform them it is stat barred

 

Try this

 

Dear idiots

 

This is alledged debt is stat barred if you think otherwise please provide proof of either written confirmation or a payment made within the last six years from date (of when you post it)

 

Regards

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Is this what should be sent?

 

THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF DEBT

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

For the purposes of clarity and the avoidance of doubt, please take careful note of the following:

 

1. This letter is sent to you to avoid any “miscommunication” and to give an unequivocal statement of intent.

 

2. This letter does not acknowledge any debt owed to you or your affiliates, agents, owners or otherwise.

 

3. I understand this debt was last acknowledged over 6 years ago and falls within the remit of s.5 of the Limitation Act 1980 (which, in case you need reminding, states that an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after 6 years from the date on which the cause of action occurred).

 

4. I am sure that you are aware that the OFT’s Debt Collection Guidance states, at paragraph 2.14(b), that it is considered unfair to pursue a debt where the debtor has not heard anything during the limitation period (which, even if this were my debt, I haven’t).

 

5. The same guidance also states it is unfair to mislead a debtor as to rights or obligations. It gives a specific example of implying or stating that the debt is legally recoverable. I enclose a copy of the letter sent by yourselves which engages in this very practice by threatening debt collectors and, worse, that a judgement will be sought against myself.

 

6. The same guidance states it is unfair to pursue a payment after a debtor has already stated they will not be paying due to it being statute barred. I am informing you that, even if the debt were mine, I would not pay it.

 

7. I am sure you are aware of the provisions of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, specifically s. 1, which makes it an offence to harass a person with a demand for payment, or concerting with others to do the same. Whilst s. 3 of the Act provides relief, it is available only where it is permissible in law to take the offending action (which, as pointed out, it is not lawful as it is statute barred), as well as that action being reasonable.

 

8. You have stated that they would send a debt collector to my address. I refer again to the OFT guidance on this matter, specifically at paragraph 2.12d (entering a property when not invited), 2.12e (failure to leave a property when asked to do so) and 2.12f (visiting or threatening to visit without prior permission when the debt is disputed).

 

9. Furthermore, you are reminded as to the common law provision which allows presumed consent of visiting without prior agreement (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 396). As such, I am notifying you that I do not give consent to you or your agents etc or employees entering my property.

 

I presume that you can put all the above together, but to avoid doubt please be advised of the following should you pursue this matter.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not wish for any person acting in any manner relating to this debt to visit my property nor do I wish to make any appointment. Any person who visits my property in relation to this alleged debt shall be immediately evicted, using whatever force is reasonable and necessary, and I shall have no hesitation in gaining the presence and/or assistance of the police to do so. Furthermore, damages shall be sought under the tort of trespass.

 

Any further communication requesting or demanding any sums of money or other property or chattel to be paid in relation to this alleged debt shall result in a complaint being made to Trading Standards as well as your activities being reported to the Office of Fair Trading. Should such action continue, I shall deem it to constitute harassment and will have no hesitation in seeking the intervention of the courts. Be aware that any action shall also include costs.

 

I trust the above is perfectly clear and I now expect you to confirm promptly, in writing, that you have closed this case and that no further action will be taken.

 

 

Yours,

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