Freds/Carter claimform - Monument Card 'debt' ***Claim Struck Out****

[Upsetandfrustrated]

OK USAF

 

How are you doing on the CPR request letter?

 

Right so you received the Court bundle on Friday 6 August 2010 and you filed AOS that very day, is that correct?

 

 

I received the court papers on Friday. I am unsure of what you would call a bundle. It was four pages of a claim form C1CPC. The front page is just that. Having spent the weekend, it is appears quite vague compared to the claims others have had. I am worried that this is designed to trip me up. There is no mention of a default notice or anything other than what they have put on the front. The claim is for a credit card, but they do not mention that. Does that have any bearing on the defence or claim?

 

I have spend hours going through the CPR stuff, strange that the upgrade to the forum also removes on the Chrome browser the additional pages tabs (looking at the CPR sticky).

 

Here's my CPR letter, can someone look at it and tell me if it is OK, or if it needs items adding? Also do I just send it to Bryan Carter & Co, or to the USA address of Arrow (by the way, what is the Law on this with them being in the USA, are they now outside of the UK courts and regulators jurisdiction?

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: Arrow Global LLC v Mrs XXXXXXX Case No:XXXXXXXX

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 6th August 2010 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 agreement to pay monthly instalments

 

Your client claims that I agreed to pay monthly instalments under the account number XXXXXXXXXX but has failed to do so. Please provide the written agreement. Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

I have served them with a CCA and SAR, when should I cover this? Also do they not have to produce an assignment as I have Carters, Arrow, Monument and Fredrickson all chasing me?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Upsetandfrustrated
Colouring

[gh2008]

Just had a quick look.

 

Ok, have you EVER had an agreement with Arrow?

 

If the agreement was with another Company maybe Monument for instance then I would submit a very simple defence basically denying you have NOT EVER had an agreement with Arrow Global therefore you deny you owe them £21xxxx or any sum at all.

 

Carter needs to learn how to write a proper POC if he wants to win any cases for his clients ........

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I have never had an agreement with Arrow.

 

Couple of questions;

 

One of the first pieces of corrispondence I sent to Arrow was this (extracts of the first few lines):

 

14th October 2007

 

Arrow LLC

24 George Square

Glasgow

G2 1EG

Dear Sirs

Ref: Monument Credit Card XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number :XXXXXXXXX

 

I did not get a reply and I sent them the usual default notices for failure to comply with a CCA. This included putting them on notice that the account was already in dispute due to charges of £50.00 per month, plus £25.00 per month for being over any alleged limit.

 

secondly, I see from other threads that a credit card defence has been submitted by some, would that apply here?

 

Furthermore, the Arrears Total outlined cannot be accurate, as the Balance on the Account was at least partly comprised of Unlawful Charges plus additional Charges and interest added unlawfully whilst the Account was in Dispute. Therefore, the Arrears claimed cannot be accurate, as they are themselves calculated using a Total that was itself inaccurate.

 

Finally, an invalid Default Notice cannot be remedied by simply issuing a new Default Notice. The Claimant may not serve a second effective default notice in prescribed form post-termination of the agreement. Any such second default notice will necessarily state a date by when I would be required to comply after which in default the agreement would terminate. The second default notice would therefore contain the fiction that the agreement endured when that cannot be the case, as it was terminated on XX/XX/XX. Terminating an Agreement on the back of a defective Default Notice, simply confirms the undeniable truth that Termination of the agreement by the Claimant was carried out in circumstances which then prohibited them from enjoying the benefits of Section 87, namely the opportunity to seek early Payment of a sum that was, prior to Termination, only payable in the future.

[gh2008]

Well, if you have never signed any agreement with Arrow then I would submit the defence as above.

 

Remember it is their job to write the POC and prove it. It is not your job to work it all out for them and disprove it.

 

Have a search on the forum for Bryan Carter and you will get an idea of how this outfit works.

 

Submit a simple defence and that also makes it more difficult for them in the future as well. (And keep track of your costs & time spent cos you can claim £9.25/hr for it - and yes that included time on here)

[Upsetandfrustrated]

So I can just enter this defence that I have never had an agreement with them. I suppose they would as part of the CPR provide it?

[gh2008]

Ok, look at it this way.

 

If you did not have Internet access or the money for a solicitor - what would your reaction be. It wouldn't be Oh send CPR letters - it would be I don't have an account with Arrow in the USA.

 

There are other points re getting a defence in re. costs and them being able to claim again.

 

With a simple deny everything defence they have to PROVE that what they are saying is true (which it isn't) so they're stuffed

 

JMHO

[tastethediff]

Arrow haven't claimed against me yet, but Fredrickson sent me a letter before action, and I received a Notice of assignment claiming to be from Nationwide, well it's on dodgy Nationwide headed paper, trouble is it's been signed by Arrow Global. I've cca'd them and they have sent me a signed agreement and statementsn no DN though but I do have the original from Nationwide.

 

I'm with you every step of the way USAF!!!

[Upsetandfrustrated]

I sent the CPR notice to them on the 9th, but have not had a response. Should I have by now?

 

My letter was as follows:

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: Arrow Global LLC v Mrs XXXXXXX Case No:XXXXXXXX

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 6th August 2010 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 agreement to pay monthly instalments

 

Your client claims that I agreed to pay monthly instalments under the account number XXXXXXXXXX but has failed to do so. Please provide the written agreement. Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Now I say I have not had a reply, that is not quite right. They have sent me a letter telling me that it is not too late, I can stop proceedings if I make a payment plan with them, they will apply to the court to have it "endorsed" by the judge and I can pay what I owe over a period of six months.

[tastethediff]

Hi USAF, what was the date on the claim form, that way you can work out when you need to submitt your defence by. You cannot submitt a defence unless they provide you with the domuments you have requested. I am in a similar situation with a claim against me. I too have not received any documents after my CPR request and my last date to file my defence is tomorrow so I am going to ring their solicitors today to see if they will agree an extention.

[gh2008]

Ok, in your letter you have said that unless you hear from them you will make an application to Court.

 

So, write to them reminding them of your letter and giving them another 7 days. (enclose a copy of the original letter as well)

 

TBH, I would submit a deny everything defence and let them sort their act out.

 

If you submit a deny everything defence and they then say ' oh well this is the account and here are the details, you will then be given the opportunity of submitting a proper defence/answer to that..

 

VJ posted a good deny everything defence the other day - I'll hunt it out

 

as usual, jmho

[gh2008]

Ah, didn't see the tail end of your post.

 

As they have replied, but ignored your request I would submit the defence.

[lord_tiger_putin]

I sent the CPR notice to them on the 9th, but have not had a response. Should I have by now?

 

My experience with Brianf@art is that they are pretty slow in replying. I had a claim with these vague POC that they are famous for and asked them to update it or I will go for a strike out. They took there time to respond but evetually send a letter that they are no longer instructed by their client and have returned the account. They didn't inform the court though, it seems to be standard practise for them. So I went ahead with the struck out application and filed a defence as well.

 

My point is that they take their time and that can take you past a deadline!

[lord_tiger_putin]

Now I say I have not had a reply, that is not quite right. They have sent me a letter telling me that it is not too late, I can stop proceedings if I make a payment plan with them, they will apply to the court to have it "endorsed" by the judge and I can pay what I owe over a period of six months.

 

I received a similar letter, I think it is a standard letter they are sending out and not a reply.

[Bazooka Boo]

He really is a disgrace to his profession, you cannot complain enough about this man, so ensure you do, to all that you can think of.

[gh2008]

BC actually does little wrong that cannot be explained by a "we have hundreds of these cases at any one time and we a re bound to make the odd mistake here and there" and yes that is the excuse ....

 

If you get a defence in, once he crumbles you will be able to claim for wasted costs. £200-£300 if it doesn't go too far up to £1k if it goes to the line.

[lord_tiger_putin]

He really is a disgrace to his profession, you cannot complain enough about this man, so ensure you do, to all that you can think of.

 

I phoned the SRA to complain and told them their name and asked him to hang on while I get ther details.

 

His response was simply:

 

"No need for that, I know that firm!"

[MandM]

VJ posted a good deny everything defence the other day - I'll hunt it out

 

 

I think it was cupcakes thread.

 

M

[vjohn82]

Something like this? ;-)

 

1. I, [insert full name & address], am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as a defence to the claim made by [insert Claimant’s name]

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. The Defendant notes that the Claimants' claim is not fully particularised and offers no cause for action and is thus eligible for a strike out under CPR 3.4.2 (a).

 

4. The Claimant as failed to disclose appropriate documentation to support the Particulars of Claim, requested under CPR 31.14 and CPR 18, which leaves the Defendant at a disadvantage and unable to plead effectively or at all. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Claim as it stands.

 

5. The Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sum of [insert claim sum] and puts the Claimant to strict proof of this sum.

 

6. As the Claimant has not provided proof of the debt or the sums claimed the Defendant denies the Claimants claim for interest pursuant to s.69 of the County Court Act 1984.

 

AND the Defendant;

 

7. Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out under CPR 3.4.2 (a), or otherwise dismissed, on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs incurred in defending this action.

[MandM]

Something like this? ;-)

 

 

A bit like that one lol. Hi VJ

[vjohn82]

A bit like that one lol. Hi VJ

 

Hello!

 

[gh2008]

Something like this? ;-)

 

Thanks VJ

 

So, in this particular case, that can be modified a little. In between 3 and 4 you can write that you deny ever having applied for or operated an account with Arrow Global.

 

5 change the and puts the Claimant to or any sum at all.

[Upsetandfrustrated]

Hi USAF, what was the date on the claim form, that way you can work out when you need to submitt your defence by. You cannot submitt a defence unless they provide you with the domuments you have requested. I am in a similar situation with a claim against me. I too have not received any documents after my CPR request and my last date to file my defence is tomorrow so I am going to ring their solicitors today to see if they will agree an extention.

 

The date on the claim form is the 26th July, I received it on 6th August though, that is when I did the AOS. What is the next step I should take, I still have not had a reply from them

[Docman]

USAF

 

I would say you have had an excellent draft defence from VJ. Just make the edits suggested (although I would also delete the reference to CPR 18 in paragraph 4), file electronically with MCOL and wait to see what happens.

[gh2008]

I think it was cupcakes thread.

 

M

 

Hi M

 

Forgot to say Hi & Thanks for that - I missed this post as I pm'd VJ

[gh2008]

USAF

 

I would say you have had an excellent draft defence from VJ. Just make the edits suggested (although I would also delete the reference to CPR 18 in paragraph 4), file electronically with MCOL and wait to see what happens.

 

Agree with Docman

I would also delete the'unable to plead' & 'embarrassed' bit as you are actually denying the claim rather than saying you are unable to 'make your mind up'

 

At the end of the day the POC says an account with Arrow - without any further details in the POC (which is disgraceful and if it ever goes to trial (it won't) the DJ would shred them for it) anyway you are saying there is no case to answer.