Cohens and CCJ

[hillards]

Lady friend had a storecard. Over the years account became part of Santander. No issues until she lost her job last year.

 

She claimed on card insurance and is still waiting for them to sort it out. They 'lost' the original claim form - it was sent 'signed for' in the post.

 

Account went to their in-house hounds, Viking, to chase her, they were told to 'go away' as she wanted her claim settled. They stopped calling after a couple of weeks.

 

Six months later. She is now working again. She did not pay anything on her card while she was off and she reckons they still need to settle the claim.

 

They then stopped her card, she used to pay monthly in the store. Card no longer works, so she can't pay that way. She did try.

 

A couple of months ago she had a letter from Cohen/CL Finance to say 'pay up or else'. She sent a letter about the matter being disputed with the OC, and that they should not be dealing with the account whilst a dispute exists. She had no reply.

 

Last week she got a CCJ judgement from Northampton - she had not had any notification of this going to court. No default notice. No correspondence to request she pay before court action. Nothing

 

She is receiving tax credits as she's on a low wage and cannot afford to be paying court fees, but she feels this is wrong for them to obtain a judgement when Cohen should not even have this case as Santander are still supposed to be sorting her claim out.

 

She admits she has not followed it up with them for a while and does not dispute there was an amount owing on the card, with a lot of charges slapped on since no doubt.

 

Even though she's not been in touch with Santander about her payment protection claim for a while, can they just pass it on like this?

 

First payment under the court order is due this week and she's very unhappy as it's over £100 a month.

 

What should she do? I'm a bit out of my depth once it passes court stage.

[citizenB]

If your friend has had a CCJ awarded against her without being advised of any claim being issued then she should be able to get it set aside.

 

Do you have any information on the Claim that Cohens say has been issued.

 

I think you if you read around the forums.. Cohens do actually say that a CCJ has been awarded when it hasnt.

 

But in the first instance you should ask them for details of the claim that they issued.. eg Out of what court, on what date and the claim number.

 

Dont just take their word that is was issued and won.

 

HTH

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/206593-howard-cohen-discussion-thread.html

 

The link above will show what Cohens are about..

[hillards]

If your friend has had a CCJ awarded against her without being advised of any claim being issued then she should be able to get it set aside.

 

Do you have any information on the Claim that Cohens say has been issued.

She has had the court document saying judgement has been entered from Northampton, not the letter that Cohen's often send out (in error of course) as I've read about on other threads.

 

I have been reading, for about 2 hours now. Mainly where court action is being proposed, or the stray letters as mentioned above. I've not found anything similar to this one.

 

I've said she needs to get something off to the court to complain that Cohen have gained this without her knowing it was even going to court, that's before we consider the issue of them having the account in the first place.

 

Thanks for the speedy response citizenB.

[Calb0b]

If it were me I would apply for a set a side on the basis that she did not receive any notification about any action being taken and that she can display an ability to defend.

 

There are clear pre action protocols that need to be followed before any court action is taken, from what you have described these have not been followed.

 

Do some research on getting the judgement set aside, the fee for this is free if you are in receipt of certain benefits or on low income.

 

I believe there could be a case to apply for a time order where the interest could possibly be frozen and the debt to be paid back at a rate that is actually affordable based on your current and future financial abilities, again you will need to put in some leg work in and research.

 

Best of Luck

CB

[citizenB]

She has had the court document saying judgement has been entered from Northampton, not the letter that Cohen's often send out (in error of course) as I've read about on other threads.

 

I have been reading, for about 2 hours now. Mainly where court action is being proposed, or the stray letters as mentioned above. I've not found anything similar to this one.

 

I've said she needs to get something off to the court to complain that Cohen have gained this without her knowing it was even going to court, that's before we consider the issue of them having the account in the first place.

 

Thanks for the speedy response citizenB.

 

In which case, if she never received the original claim, I agree with Calb0b and would go for a set aside using the information from the order from Northampton. There are plenty of examples on the forum. But do shout if you need assistance.

 

You are already in legal issues so you should get plenty of assistance.

[hillards]

Thanks for that.

 

Quite simple then, apply for a set aside on the grounds that they did not inform her the matter was going to court so she could not defend herself.

 

Lets see what happens...

[hillards]

Set aside applied for, she has just got paperwork back from court. They want £75 or evidence she qualifies with a benefit. Thankfully, she does.

 

But, question is - if she had had to pay the £75 for a set-aside, bearing in mind it wasn't her fault the matter was taken to court without her knowing, would she get that money back ?

 

Seems a lot to shell out when she's already stated in her application that she knew nothing of the application and that Cohen's should not have been handling it anyway.

[The Mould]

Was the account/debt assigned to Cohen?

 

Did your friend receive any type of Notice of Assignment?

 

The set aside should be straight forward in the circumstances (based on your posts).

 

Do you, sorry, does your friend know if Moorhens are acting as a sub-contractor for Santander?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Huff&Puff]

[quote=hillards;3078337But, question is - if she had had to pay the £75 for a set-aside, bearing in mind it wasn't her fault the matter was taken to court without her knowing, would she get that money back ?

 

Seems a lot to shell out when she's already stated in her application that she knew nothing of the application and that Cohen's should not have been handling it anyway.

 

If you win the Set Aside, then you do get the £75 back.

[hillards]

Was the account/debt assigned to Cohen?

 

Did your friend receive any type of Notice of Assignment?

 

The set aside should be straight forward in the circumstances (based on your posts).

 

Do you, sorry, does your friend know if Moorhens are acting as a sub-contractor for Santander?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

One letter, months ago, saying that Cohens wanted paying, or else. I have not seen that, she disposed of it after writing to say that Santander were still dealing with the PPI claim and therefore the account was in dispute. No NOA or DN as far as I'm aware. Just a court order, direct from Northampton, that is legit (for once) - hence the set aside application

 

Moorhens?

 

I know the links between Cohen, Lewis, CL and Cattles from previous work, normally matters are dealt with before it gets to court. This time they didn't see fit to let her know they were taking such action, and we appreciate that they should perform various acts of magic, providing paperwork to base a claim on, before they do that.

 

No idea if they have bought the debt, or are just acting for 'their client', no doubt that will come to light at some point.

 

I've said she need to go back to Santander and ask where the four-x her PPI claim is, as they owe her money from that. She also needs a complete statement from them of how much she owed as the Cohen court claim is much higher than what she though was outstanding, suggesting added charges.

[hillards]

If you win the Set Aside, then you do get the £75 back.

 

Thank you - I would have thought so, but the booklet from the couyrt does not say anything about that.

[hammyhound]

Hillards, if she receives working tax credit but not family tax credit she will be exempt from paying court fees.

 

HH

[hillards]

Hillards, if she receives working tax credit but not family tax credit she will be exempt from paying court fees.

 

HH

 

Thanks, I did say in post #8 that she qualified for exemption on the benefits front. I was asking about the fee more for my own knowledge as I wasn't sure.

[hillards]

She applied for set aside, had to send more forms back to court about her benefits, waiting for them to respond.

 

In the meantime - CL start to play silly games:

Pre-Bailiff? Phone number is Boston Lincolnshire, and relates to a transport company when Googled.

Why confuse the issue further with a Northern Ireland address?

Should also mention, came in a brown envelope, second class stamp - no visit at all!

 

Love the 'brick wall' pattern - sums up the feeling we have about them!

[hillards]

Had a bit of a delay as she needed to get a confirmation letter form DWP about her benefits, but that went to Northampton and they've sent her a letter saying the application has been accepted and they've passed it to the relevant department. Same post, letter form Northampton saying it's been passed to her local court. Now waiting to hear from them.

 

If she has to take time off work to attend, can she claim? She's worried about that as she can't afford to be losing days to go to court when this matter should not have gone there in the first place. OR, can she write to the court as her case is simply that Cohens should not have been dealing with this anyway and they skipped procedure etc.

 

I've told her she needs to write to Santander about her claim on PPI too, as they've never dealt with that issue. That's why she reckons Cohen should not have this account, her dispute is still open on the claim for when she was out of work. She's not sure what to do about that bit.

[creditcardmug]

If its been set aside, and transferred to her local court, then she should get a claim pack, complete with POC, which she can defend against, in other words the clock goes back to when they first issued the claim, with all the timelines that entails.

Make sure with the court this is happening, the last thing you want is to have to go through all this again!

CCA the OC as well best do it now

[citizenB]

If the court awards judgement in your partner's favour, then yes, she can claim back lost salary for attending the hearing.

[citizenB]

Hillards, I would be inclined to send that notice to the OFT/Trading Standards. They are trying to circumvent the set aside hearing. I am rather surprised that they have a Northern Ireland address and a Lincolnshire telephone number ! You should be able to write to the company.

[hillards]

In fairness, the card arrived while she was dealing with the court and her application for the set aside. Because she had to obtain further evidence of benefit it's possible that CL would not have known about the action she had taken at that time.

 

She now has a N244a notice from the local court which says "The hearing for the defendant's application for Setting Aside The Judgement will take place on the 27 September 2010...". On the N244 application this states we applied for it to be dealt with without a hearing, so she does not have to attend as far as we can tell. The order has been requested on the grounds that she was not informed the matter was being taken to court and procedure had not been followed.

 

I will check with the court, to make sure they do not need her to be there. I'd hate for the other lot to turn up and win a case by default at this stage.

[hillards]

BAD NEWS - The application for a set aside clearly stated 'without a hearing', there's a tick-box on the form, it was ticked. When I asked the court, by phone, they said that the matter would be looked at by a judge and there was no need to go as the application stated why the set-aside was being requested. They couldn't go into detail about the actual case, as I was not the defendant, but that's what I was told.

 

The hearing was set for Monday 27th. On Saturday 25th a wad of paperwork arrived from Cohen, a 'witness statement in anticipation of the above hearing' that they had sent to the court. They claim that they have sent out all sorts of things, like a default notice, a deed of assignment, and copies of other documents.

 

In her application to set aside it was clearly stated that she had not been informed of the original court proceedings, so had been unable to make a defence etc. I had told her, on advice from the court, that she did not need go on the Monday. Aside from this, there was a delay in making the application as she had to obtain confirmation from HMRC about her benefits, clearly indicating that she is in financial difficulties anyway.

 

She's just had news from the court - 'Upon hearing Counsel for the Claimant and the Defendant not appearing..." They've ordered "that the Defendant's application to set the judgement aside be struck out" and awarded costs of £99.88 against her!

 

What is the point of taking something like this back to court if Cohen are able to do something like that? She trusted the court to look at the application and had no idea that Cohen could dump that paperwork on the court and bulldoze it through like that.

 

But, more important, now what does she do as she cannot afford to pay the original amount ordered , let alone any extra. She feels badly let down by 'the system' - how is the average person supposed to know what to do when the 'witness statement' arrives at the last minute like that, and they were advised they need not attend. I would have happily gone with her if there was any thought it would have done any good.

 

She's really upset about it all and I feel bad that she's ended up in this situation. I'm not going to try and guess what comes next, obviously nasty letters from Cohen now, gloating and making demands. I think she will need to apply for a variation of the order, unless there's some way to complain about how the set aside was handled? It all seems so unfair that she made the effort to apply for that and ends up having to pay even more.

[citizenB]

I would think that you would be able to apply to have this set aside on the grounds you had been advised that no attendance was required.

 

I will alert site team for you.

[creditcardmug]

Just read through all this again, your post of 7th sept says you will check with court whether she needs to attend...then nothing until today?

Also we do not have the text of the n244, in order to see what was applied for?

"in fairness the card arrived"...what card?

To be honest when an application to set-aside a judgement has failed, i dont know where you go, i dont know whether you can appeal

I can see that the matter was not handled correctly, hence the problem

[hillards]

I would think that you would be able to apply to have this set aside on the grounds you had been advised that no attendance was required.

Set aside a set aside application that the court didn't get right then? My thought was that if it was indicated 'without a hearing', as shown on the form, then she should not attend.

I will alert site team for you.

Thank you, will await further info before doing any more.

 

...your post of 7th sept says you will check with court whether she needs to attend...

I did that, but didn't realise I had to post that detail back here to confirm when I had said I was doing to...

then nothing until today?

There has been nothing else to say, she was waiting for the 27th.

Also we do not have the text of the n244, in order to see what was applied for?

Sorry, that was not seen as being so vital. I am only advising on this, I don't have a copy of the text here. I've seen the form when it was returned for her to send in details of her benefits, but that's a while back now and I don't want to guess at what it actually said. I'll try and get a copy later.

"in fairness the card arrived"...what card?

The card shown in post #15 (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?271067-Cohens-and-CCJ&p=3104845&viewfull=1#post3104845)

I can see that the matter was not handled correctly, hence the problem

I did start this thread by pointing out that I was unsure of what to do after court action started.

 

I've always been one to promote self-help on CAG, and simply went with advice given.

[foolishgirl]

As far as I can see Hillards, you've done everything correctly (except perhaps the content of the N244 app that you haven't posted) & it's the court that have messed up big time.

 

Have you/applicant spoken to the Court Manager? Try & get hold of him/her, not just some desk clerk. If you can't, I suggest a formal letter of complaint to him.

 

It clearly says on your form that the case would be heard without a hearing & you double checked by phone so that is what you were relying on & you should have been able to trust that the information you were given was correct. I would tell him I was giving him the opportunity to rectify the matter before I exposed him to the mercies of my local MP & the press.

 

I have never heard of a case like this before but it is always wise to turn up at court when a date is set - just in case.

 

To take it forward in the immediate future, if you don't get any joy from the CM, I think I would be tempted to put in another app for a set aside of this order on the grounds that the court misinformed you.