Debt collection demands for incorrect amoun of debt! Need help-fast!

[Cuchulainn2010]

Hi,

 

I have recently been sent a letter from "TNC collections" about an outstanding university tuition debt.

 

They phoned me several days before the letter arrived and I quite clearly stated that I wasnt interested in discussing it on the phone and that paying the outstanding amount (£2622.50) within a week or 2 was completely unfeasible, and that the amount of the debt was wrong (more about that later).

 

In 2007/2008 I was enrolled on a PgD/MSc computer course. At christmas I became quite ill (some viral thing according to the doctor) that knocked me for a few months. Because of this I did not hand 2 pieces of coursework in for the first semester (2 seperate modules) and did not complete semester 2.

 

In 2008/2009 I reenrolled on the course. At the time there was confusion with what I had to complete. However all the lecturers and the head of the course told me that I should submit the 2 pieces of coursework for the end of the first semester then sit all the modules in the second semester.

 

The year went well and I eventually passed everything and could go on to the third semester (MSc component). When I went to reenrol for that I was classed as a debtor and not allowed to reenrol.

 

no problem, off to the fees office to setout a payment plan. Now I find out that I am being charged for 2 full semesters in the resit year.

 

Now I spend the next 4-6 months running back and forth between the shool office, fees office, head of course, until i finally get (via email) passed up the chain to the "only person who can help me" who states that i was enrolled for a full year and have to pay for it according to the records, and to change it I have to go back to the school office etc. Despite me pointing out that in the resit year I only sat examinations and classes for the 2nd semester and the only 1st semester thing i did was submit my coursework from the year before.

 

"F*ck this" say I and give up. Hear nothing from the university until this month when I get a letter from the university (pay or go to a debt collection). I point out to them, again, that I believe the debt amount to be wrong and a week later I get the debt collection agency phoning me to say "Pay all now or go to court!". Then a letter from them stating "Pay within 7 days or go court and pay fees, interest and damage to credit record".

 

Any suggestions on how I should respond from now on would be greatfully appreciated. Oh, thanks for bearing with the long story above!.

 

Oh, and should this be put in the students thread.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Cuchulainn2010

[harrassed senior]

Firstly, send the DCA the prove it letter, to make sure they have the right to collect;

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[unclebulgaria67]

In regard to the tuition fees that they are trying to charge you, what evidence does the University have that you received the tuition. What forms did you complete to contract you to be liable for these?

 

In addition to sending the letter in Harassed seniors post, you should write to the most senior person at the University, asking them to look into this. Explain the position, as you have done in your post. Send the Debt company a copy of the letter you send to the University.

 

While the debt is in dispute, the debt company has to suspend their collection activity to comply with the OFT's rules.

[Cuchulainn2010]

Thanks for both replies.

 

The problem with the tuition fee is that it I am being charged for 4 additional semesters. The university had previously said that I was to repeat the second semester, then they said the full year, but when I enrolled for the resit year, I was told that I passed everything in the first semester (except 2 pieces of coursework for 2 of the first semester modules).

 

N.B. I am paying 1 years full tuition for the first year (even though I became ill) and being asked to pay for a second full years tuition, though I believe it should only be one semester (plus the cost of 2 pieces of coursework).

 

Therefore I was charged for a repeat year, instead of a repeat semester, plus 2 pieces of coursework.

 

The problem I encountered was that I had a academic record saying that I was due to repeat "part/or all" of the year and doesnt specify which.

 

The university records of this decision have me as having to repeat the entire year (I have not been shown these records, just told about them!) and yet my academic record clearly shows that I did 1 semester one year, then was ill, then finished the second semester the next year.

 

My exam results and all the coursework (bar the 2 pieces mentioned) where carried over to the next year, I even have a certificate for one of the modules of the first semester, first year.

 

In essence then, i am being told to pay for something that I did not do, nor had to do. At the time I said I would be happy to pay for the 2 extra modules, as long as I got to continue on with the MSc.

 

The university said that I must settle all the debts before enrolling on the MSc component. Therefore, I did not get to complete the MSc component, after putting in all the effort to pass the PgD after being ill.

 

Should/can I ask for all the universitys information on me under the Freedom of Information act.

 

Also, I contacted the university (via email) and restated my position that the amount of the debt was wrong before their deadline to go to a collection agency had passed. Then the debt collection agency phoned me to try to get all the money. I informed them that the amount was wrong and that I was in communication with the university about that fact. The debt collection agency then stated that I would have to pay at least half of the debt then to stop further action, even if the debt is in dispute. I guess that this is not the correct way then from reading the posts on this forum? ;-)

 

Should I contact the university and/or debt collection agency in a formal manner to state that the debt is in dispute if/when I receive a reply to the above letter in Harrassed Seniors post? Should I contact them to state that now? Or just wait for a reply from the debt collection agency?

 

Finally, should I cease all phone and email communication with both parties, relying on just the mail, or can I continue via email also?

 

Thanks again for the help.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Cuchulainn2010

[Cuchulainn2010]

Firstly, send the DCA the prove it letter, to make sure they have the right to collect;

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Sorry to be a pain, but in this letter I am stating that I know of no such debt to the university, is this ok for me to say as ive stated that I dont believe the debt to be correct, therefore I am aware of the debt. Sorry, I am a bit dense when it comes to legalese sometimes.

[unclebulgaria67]

Stop complicating matters. If you keep this simple then it will make things easier to follow.

 

Your argument is with the University about what tuition they provided. They need to provide evidence of tuition you received and a contract to prove you are liable to pay for any tuition received.

 

1) Send the Universities most senior person a letter by recorded delivery stating the facts as you know them and question why they have made an allegation that you owe them a debt, which they have passed for debt collection. Ask them for full details of their complaints process and details of how you may obtain a full copy of any records held in your name. I don't think Universities are covered under FOI as they are not a public body as such. They may be covered under Data Prorection.

 

2) Send the Debt company the letter in Harassed seniors post by recorded delivery. You are not aware of the debt, because you have not been provided with 100% acccurate information to prove you are liable for these tuition fees. Enclose a copy of the letter sent to the University.

 

Follow this advice for now and see what comes of it. The University should just aknowledge that they will look into this, before investigating and replying fully. The debt company should stop their collection activity, while the matter is in dispute.

[Cuchulainn2010]

Stop complicating matters. If you keep this simple then it will make things easier to follow.

 

Your argument is with the University about what tuition they provided. They need to provide evidence of tuition you received and a contract to prove you are liable to pay for any tuition received.

 

1) Send the Universities most senior person a letter by recorded delivery stating the facts as you know them and question why they have made an allegation that you owe them a debt, which they have passed for debt collection. Ask them for full details of their complaints process and details of how you may obtain a full copy of any records held in your name. I don't think Universities are covered under FOI as they are not a public body as such. They may be covered under Data Prorection.

 

2) Send the Debt company the letter in Harassed seniors post by recorded delivery. You are not aware of the debt, because you have not been provided with 100% acccurate information to prove you are liable for these tuition fees. Enclose a copy of the letter sent to the University.

 

Follow this advice for now and see what comes of it. The University should just aknowledge that they will look into this, before investigating and replying fully. The debt company should stop their collection activity, while the matter is in dispute.

 

Thanks, I have replied to the university and to the DCA as you advised. Thanks for your help!

[Cuchulainn2010]

Well, I have sent off the "prove it" letter to the debt collection agency.

 

Saturday, I received a letter from the DCA, showing a couple of emails I sent to the university asking for them to explain the letter they had sent me asking for payment of unpaid fees of £2600 (the emails show that i was disputing the amount of debt and one of the universities reply emails had me addressed by a name that isnt mine!) and a copy of my exam and coursework marks for the modules I studied (isnt that private information?). In addition a letter was enclosed from TNC stating that if I did not initiate payment proceedings then they would initiate court proceedings and they would claim interest plus court costs.

 

Today I received a very threatening phone call from TNC collections stating

- They had given me all the chances they would

- They had been helpful

- They had given me all the information I needed

- They would only deal over the phone because mail was too slow (They sent out the last letter 2nd class then told me it was first, despite me looking at the 2nd stamp on the envelope as they said it)

- If I didnt pay now or have a payment plan within 24 hours then they would be taking court action

- They would be registering a debt and court action against my parents (where i live) address?

 

What do i do now? As far as I was concerned the University was charging me £3800, and I had contacted them too say it was wrong. 2 years go past and I suddenly have the correct amount being billed to me and 2 weeks to pay? Am I the only one who thins this is unreasonable?

Edited June 29, 2010 by Cuchulainn2010

[Cuchulainn2010]

Hate to bump, but could really do with some advice.

[unclebulgaria67]

Have you done as suggested in my previous post. Started a complaint with the University ?

 

If you are in the middle of a dispute with the University the DCA should not be taking any collection activity as it is against OFT debt collection guidelines. If they tried to go to Court, you would just show the court that you were in the process of a complaint with the University about tuition fees that you believe are not due. The Court would tell the DCA to go away until the dispute with the University is resolved.

 

If you have started the complaint with the University, phone Consumer Direct and ask them to refer this the relevant Trading Standards. The Trading Standards office local to the DCA, should then contact the DCA on your behalf.

 

It is up to you now. If you don't make a stand with the University to prove that the tuition fees are not due, you will end up with a CCJ against your name, with added interest and fees.

 

The DCA cannot insist on telephone only contact. If you phone Consumer Direct with details of what they said, then Trading Standards can take this up with the DCA.

[Cuchulainn2010]

Have you done as suggested in my previous post. Started a complaint with the University ?

 

If you are in the middle of a dispute with the University the DCA should not be taking any collection activity as it is against OFT debt collection guidelines. If they tried to go to Court, you would just show the court that you were in the process of a complaint with the University about tuition fees that you believe are not due. The Court would tell the DCA to go away until the dispute with the University is resolved.

 

If you have started the complaint with the University, phone Consumer Direct and ask them to refer this the relevant Trading Standards. The Trading Standards office local to the DCA, should then contact the DCA on your behalf.

 

It is up to you now. If you don't make a stand with the University to prove that the tuition fees are not due, you will end up with a CCJ against your name, with added interest and fees.

 

The DCA cannot insist on telephone only contact. If you phone Consumer Direct with details of what they said, then Trading Standards can take this up with the DCA.

 

Thank you.

 

Firstly, about 3 years ago, I had originally been arguing with the university about the amount they were charging me, but after 6 months of being sent back and forth between the same people I stopped pestering them.

 

However, as soon as I received the letter from the university about the debts (last month), I contacted them by email and stated that I had been in communication previously with them about the debts being incorrect. The new amount they quoted was correct, however they stated that it had to be paid in full or a payment plan set up with the debt collection agency.

 

Now, after 1 year (according to their records) they agreed with me over the amount, but did not contact me to tell me this. Then another year later I get a letter stating that I have to pay within 14 days or it goes to a DCA. To me, I was still disputing the amount with them.

 

Also, their reply by email adressed me by a first name that isnt my first name.

 

Now, the debt collection agency is literally threatening me, as I stated above, with court, debts, marks against my parents, etc.

 

I asked them for evidence that the debt is mine and all they could provide is a copy of my university exam and coursework marks (isnt this in breach of the Data Protection Act?) and the emails that I sent to the university over the past month. Including their reply adressed to someone with a different firstname!

 

Now, my problem is, I am in no position to pay any of the debt as I am currently unemployed and the DCA says that I must pay at least 10% of the debt per month.

 

They phoned today and stated that they would give me until 4pm tomorrow to come up with a payment plan or it goes to court and they slap me with fees and interest.

 

The way I see it is -

1. I was disputing the amount with the university

2. The university did not contact me to inform me that they agreed with my calculation of the fees and had lowered the amount by £1500 after 1.5 years

3. The university has sent me emails about this within the month and got my name wrong

4. I have lost out on completeing the MSc component of the course because of this

5. The DCA has provided nothing which proves I have agreed a debt to the university as evidence and I believe what they have should not have been given to the DCA

6. The debt collection agency has made threatening phone calls

7. The debt collection agency has set payment limits that I have no ability to pay

 

What I need advice on is how to fight back at this point. If the debt had been calculated correctly in the first place, I would have paid it. If I had been contacted after they had decided to change the amount to the correct amount, I would have paid it. Now 3 years later, I have had 1 month to sort this out, when I am not in a position to pay. Can they really act in this manner?

[unclebulgaria67]

Sounds like the University and DCA have not handled this at all well. The University should certainly not have passed on any information to the DCA that was not relevant to them.

 

You need to think about this abit more clearly. Yes you may have been in contact with the University about this before, but you are where you are. You are in a position now, where the DCA will probably apply to the court within the next few weeks, using information from the University to prove you incurred the tuition fees. The court will probably pass judgement in the DCA's favour, unless you have proof the tuition fees are not due. But you will only have to pay back what you could afford. The court would assess your ability to pay and set the amount of repayment per week/month. So in some ways it could be better to let this go to court, apart from you having a CCJ on record.

 

If you wanted to fight the DCA/University, you need to submit a new complaint to the University and send a copy to the DCA. Advise them it is against the OFT's collection guidelines to continue requesting payment, while a dispute with the creditor is in progress. The University will probably have a complaints resolution process, so when you make a complaint, ask for a copy.

 

You should focus your attention on the University. They are the ones that have caused the problem and are the ones that can provide a solution. They have passed on some information to the DCA which is totally wrong of them to do so, which will help you apply some leverage. The information should only have been related to the tuition fees and related proof.

 

These are the OFT debt collection guidelines. Read them and have a copy by the phone when the DCA next phone. Tell them they are in breach of the guidelines and if they continue, you will report them to Trading Standards.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

In regard to University tuition fees, I am not totally sure how these are affected by the limitation act 1980. Do they become statute barred after 6 years, so cannot be collected? Do you know the date that the alleged debt went into a default position ?