Ebay Car purchase (Trader) Needs new engine after 10 weeks

[qwerty909]

Hello, can I please ask some advice;

 

Purchased car on auction format on Ebay, (Won Auction on 4th March), Picked up 13th March, paid cash.

 

Seller appears to be a Trader from home, selling on Autotrader & Ebay.

 

Paid £3400 for Car. 7 years old, 114k miles.

Within 24 hours the DI Cassette was failing, no problem, replaced by Seller with Recon Part. Last week engine starting making small noises on and off. This got really bad on Friday (28th May), so I took it to a well regarded local Independant Specialist, they Diagnosed Crankshaft bearing failure, possible big end failure. Quote £2k to £3k for either replacement recon engine or partial/full rebuild and advised to under no circumstance attempt to drive it, as more damage will be caused

 

Called seller, not interested, said I am on my own, no warrenty, auction format sale just like BCA etc. Advised to try scrap yard and get an engine etc.

 

Now I believe I may have a case to claim under SOGA. Whilst talking to the seller on the phone, he did agree that the nature of the problem must have been there at point of sale and did not start within my ownership.

 

I dont really mind either a repair or refund, and I am happy to go with what ever will cost the dealer less money.

 

So is my next step is to send a recorded letter asking for either repair or refund within 14 days?

 

One query, is the fact that I purchased via auction format on ebay an issue? In the past I used to be a gold powerseller and have been on ebay for years, I was under the impression that it was not an actual legal "auction"? Has anything changed recently?

 

And is the age and mileage of the car detrimental to my claim? I would of thought it reasonable for a £3.4k purchase to last longer then 3 months?

 

Finally, am I on a hiding to nothing? The trader has been in the game 20 years so may encountered this issue before, so may be well versed in avoiding and delaying such claims?

 

Sorry for the long post & thanks in advance.

[Conniff]

Hello qwerty.

 

If the seller is a trader, you will have the same legal rights as if you bought the goods in a shop.

 

The rights do not apply to a public auction if the buyer had the chance to attend the auction.

 

The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

 

Second-hand goods

 

If you buy second-hand goods from an auction which you aren't given the opportunity to attend in person, for example an internet auction, your rights will depend on whether the seller is a trader or a private individual.

If the seller is a trader, you will have the same legal rights as if you bought the goods in a shop.

 

So you must acertain that the seller is in fact a trader.

 

You cannot demand a repair if the cost of those repairs is disproportionate.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Conniff

[qwerty909]

Hello Conniff, I am gratefull you have taken the time to reply.

 

This is what I was unsure of as Ebay often claims that it is not an auction but a "venue" for sales and trade.

 

Whilst trying to look into this I found the followiing information on my local TS website

 

Internet auctions:

Most Internet auctions only provide the site for the auctions to be held and, therefore, are not generally liable for the goods bought and sold. It is preferable to check the terms and conditions of the website for full details.

You have the same basic rights against a trader as you do with any other purchase, although auction sales are exempt from the Distance Selling Regulations. You should also take note that your usual consumer rights cannot be excluded when buying from a trader through an Internet auction.

Would this indicate that I may have case for claim under Quality, Durability etc?

 

Or would the best course of action be to go for not as described?

In the auction words such as "stunning", "showroom quality", "stunning car in 1st class condition" were used.

 

Thanks.

[Conniff]

I have amended my earlier post qwerty and you might be just a little pleased with what I have changed it to.

 

I will post the relevent regulations and a link later.

[qwerty909]

Thanks Conniff, that is a help and certainly puts things in a better light.

 

So you must acertain that the seller is in fact a trader.

 

It is certain the seller is a Trader, his ebay turnover for the last 90 days is almost £90k. I think he may operate with a partner but am not sure. He has 12 cars currently listed on AutoTrader.

 

You cannot demand a repair if the cost of those repairs is disproportionate.

 

Does this mean if the cost of repair is close to or in excess of the value of the vehicle I could ask for repair?

[Conniff]

No, it means that if the cost are so much that it's not worth repairing, you can either have you money back or another car, you wouldn't be able to inisist on a repair. It will be the dealers choice not yours.

 

Give him a bell and see what he says. If the answr is negative, then ask for a full refund. Tell us what he says and then we can take it the official route if he isn't accommodating.

[qwerty909]

Thanks Conniff,

I have already had a conversation with him;

Said I would like a refund or repair, he said "not a chance of a refund, no way", he mentioned I had now warranty or comeback as it was a auction sale, just like BCA, Manheim etc. Also mentioned that as I have had it 10 weeks (2k miles) then there is nothing he can do etc.

 

I think next stage is Recorded letter asking for repair or refund ?

[Conniff]

Don't forget to mention the above regs. The only thing a trader is free of in an auction is the distance selling regulations.

[qwerty909]

Great, maqny thanks for your help so far, will work on my letter tomorrow morning with plan to send it 1st thing Tuesday.

[qwerty909]

This is my 1st draft of proposed letter, any pointers or advice most welcome.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

RE: Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) & The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

 

 

On 13th March I purchased a xxxxxxxxxx for £3400 via Ebay which is not of satisfcatory quality and not fit for the purpose known.

 

I am now unable to drive the car due to a serious engine fault. The Climate Control/Air conditioning is also faulty as are the reverse parking sensors.

 

XXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXX, a highly regarded indepandant XXX specialist, diagnosed the car (on Friday 28th May) with a crankshaft bearing failing and posibly big end failiure. They have estimated a repair bill of between £2350 and £3000. They have also advised that the car should not be used or driven until a repair has been completed. I have not received any estimate for the diagnosis or repir of the Climate control/Air conditioning and parking sensors.

 

The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 state that if second-hand goods are purchased, from a Trader, from an auction which you aren't given the opportunity to attend in person, for example an internet auction, you will have the same legal rights as if you bought the goods in a shop.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

 

Under the above legislation I would like to request a repair, refund or replacement within the next 10 working days

 

Time is of the essence, I am currently unable to use the car and would like to bring the matter to closure swiftly.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this letter in writing, I do not wish to discuss the matter via telephone or email at present. My wife is due to give birth in two weeks and I feel that this would add additional stress to what is already a stressfull situation. We are now without a car and are having to rely on friends for lifts/transport.

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited May 31, 2010 by qwerty909

[Conniff]

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

RE: Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) & The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002

 

 

On 13th March I purchased a xxxxxxxxxx add reg number for £3400 via Ebay which is not of satisfcatory typo quality and not fit for the purpose known. just make that 'not fit for purpose.

 

I am now unable to drive the car due to a serious engine fault. The Climate Control/Air conditioning is also faulty as are the reverse parking sensors.

 

XXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXX, I wouldn't actually name the garage at this stage I would just say 'I have had it inspected by an independant specialist who report etc; a highly regarded indepandant XXX specialist, diagnosed the car (on Friday 28th May) with a crankshaft bearing failing and posibly big end failiure. They have estimated a repair bill of between £2350 and £3000. They have also advised that the car should not be used or driven until a repair has been completed. I have not received any estimate for the diagnosis or repir of the Climate control/Air conditioning and parking sensors.

 

The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 state that if second-hand goods are purchased, from a Trader, from an auction which you aren't spell that out given the opportunity to attend in person, for example an internet auction, you will have the same legal rights as if you bought the goods in a shop.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption change to 'it is assumed' the goods were faulty when sold.

 

Under the above legislation I would like to request a repair, refund or replacement within the next 10 working days

 

Time is of the essence, I am currently unable to use the car and would like to bring the matter to closure swiftly.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this letter in writing, I do not wish to discuss the matter via telephone or email at present. My wife is due to give birth in two weeks and I feel that this would add additional stress to what is already a stressfull situation. We are now without a car and are having to rely on friends for lifts/transport should we need them

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Just a few things I can see. Any particular reason you don't want to correspond using email?

A couple of changes so you use the same language as in the regs.

[qwerty909]

Thanks for the proof read & advice Conniff.

 

I think I would just like everything on paper so I suppose email is fine, I will delete that bit and just request to not sort it out via telephone.

 

Regards, qwerty

[heliosuk]

Err.. playing devils advocate peeps, if the ebay ad stated inspection welcome, viewing recommended, must see as is commonly seen, is this not the same as the purchaser being given the opportunity to inspect the goods prior to bidding? Therefore falls under the remit of a public auction?? I.e, the bidder has been given the opportunity to inspect so therefore is a public auction and is bought as is????

[Conniff]

If you live in Penzance and the car is in Grimsby, that is hardly a chance to view, so the answer is no.

 

I think that is more meant to entice you into thinking that if you see it, you will buy it.

 

It's no different to being offered a warranty by a trader, it kinda make you think 'well must be ok then'.

 

Also an auction as opposed to an internet auction has viewing days.

[heliosuk]

By definition, a time scale on an auction with an invitation to view is hardly "well it must be OK then". It's deemed an auction with an invitation to view irrespective of where it is. You either view or you don't. The question is, did the ad on e bay have this?

 

Whether the car was in Inverness and the bidder was in Lands End is nebulous. The fact is, was the buyer in the ad offered the chance to inspect? If the buyer was in Lands End and the sale was in Inverness with an invitation to look at before then the onus is on the buyer.

 

If you want to kick in E bay then the answer again is simple. If you cant's see and have satisfied yourself it' a good purchase then don't bid!

[Conniff]

That's not how the regs see it. An auction is classed as open where you 'have' (in the definitive), the opportunity to examin as you would in a shop whereas an internet auction you don't have the same opportunity. I don't think the invitation to view makes any difference.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Conniff

[qwerty909]

Thanks for the input guys. It's an interesting point. From how I am reading the regs I would say I don't think statements like, "must see" & " viewing essential" would enable a Trader to disregard the regulations.

 

After double checking the auction description, I can confirm that no such statements have been made by the seller in this instance.

[qwerty909]

Just to keep things up to date; letter sent Tuesday 1st, signed for Thursday 3rd.

 

I am expecting no response to my orignal letter, would anyone like to advise if my next letter should be a "Final Letter before Action" or should I send another letter similar to the first?

[qwerty909]

Update:

 

Okay no response to letter 1.

Sent another letter today just repeating my request etc.

Consumer Direct have suggested I send 3 or 4 letters before commencing legal action, so as not to be seen as "unreasonable".

[crem]

Consumer Direct have suggested I send 3 or 4 letters before commencing legal action, so as not to be seen as "unreasonable".

 

Why should you have to send 3 or 4 letters to not be "unreasonable"? I see no reason to send more than 1 before sending an LBA (not withstanding they reply with something useful whichh I am sure they wont)

[qwerty909]

Thanks Crem, I seem to get a slightly different opinion each time I speak to consumer direct.

 

My 2nd letter posted 1st Class recorded last Thursday, has yet to be delivered, I presume it is waiting at the sorting office for collection.

 

What should one do in this situation, resend the letter after a week? I presume it could be a 2 or 3 weeks before the letter actually gets returned to me, if at all?

 

How does the law see this, if letters are refused or not picked up?

 

Thanks.

[Mountain]

qwerty,

 

I have had almost exactly the same situation...I even bought the vehicle on the same day as you:eek:

 

I sued via moneyclam online. Cost me £60.

 

I won the case by default as the dealer had 3 attempted defences thrown out.

 

However, even though I 'won' I'm still having problems with this guy as he's applied to have the judgment set aside.

 

I hope the judge doesn't allow the set aside and the bailiffs can carry on recovering the money owed to me.

 

Good luck. You have my complete sympathy.

 

try moneyclaim anyway, what have you got to lose?

[letsmakeamark]

The problem you have with eBay is you see something you like. You bid according to the description. You then turn up and purchase or Tyre kick as ebayers say. What i cant understand is if you are willing to travel half the country to buy something why cant you then travel half the country to do a inspection ? It is all well saying and so on. the liability lies with the seller. Also how was the receipt worded ? Seen as sold ?

[qwerty909]

qwerty,

 

I have had almost exactly the same situation...I even bought the vehicle on the same day as you:eek:

 

I sued via moneyclam online. Cost me £60.

 

I won the case by default as the dealer had 3 attempted defences thrown out.

 

However, even though I 'won' I'm still having problems with this guy as he's applied to have the judgment set aside.

 

I hope the judge doesn't allow the set aside and the bailiffs can carry on recovering the money owed to me.

 

Good luck. You have my complete sympathy.

 

try moneyclaim anyway, what have you got to lose?

 

Good Luck with your problem Mountain, I will look into moneyclaim, although at this stage I have not got the car repaired as cant afford to, so I am unsure as to my next step in regard to court action. Whether to ask for a refund or repair.

[qwerty909]

The problem you have with eBay is you see something you like. You bid according to the description. You then turn up and purchase or Tyre kick as ebayers say. What i cant understand is if you are willing to travel half the country to buy something why cant you then travel half the country to do a inspection ? It is all well saying and so on. the liability lies with the seller. Also how was the receipt worded ? Seen as sold ?

 

Car was described as A1, showroom quality, I presume it unlikely that an AA inspection would have reported the internal engine damage.

 

No mention of "sold as seen", which I understand would make no difference if it did?