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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Esa cost me a week.


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Sorry to keep you all hanging on.

 

Ok here's what happend,

 

i decided to take a trip to a dwp-atos office london(i can't say which one been advised not to) off i went to have my say, i go get to the said office in london only to be met by this security gaurd and he ask me can i help you i replied yes you can is there any chance of talking to a manager or supervisor i have some private questions i would like to put to them he said wait a minute i will find out he came back and said someone will be with you in a bit, i said ok thanks, 5 minutes later the manager turned up he then ask me what can i do for you so i said can i be blunt and get to the point he said ok, so then i go onto say why is it that you treat the disabled in this way he then said what do you mean i reply these so called assesments you do for this ESA benifit, and i said about your DM's and so called Atos medical staff, no reply i said you can see from peoples esa50-ib50 forms there problems you don't ask them what's on there forms and put a completely different story to what is on there forms and don't take there Doc's reports ect, he went red in the face and asked me to leave i said i hit the nail on the head have i the truth hurts.

With that they called security and again asked me to leave i replied with some strong words like the truth hurts and (bearing in mind i had my walking stick) so i thought im not getting anywere here so then i thought what the hell so i lashed out and said get your hands of my to the security gaurd he though he was a big man so i clumped him with my stick and replied skrew you.

The next thing the police was called and carted me down to the cop shop to be interveiwed it was a shame anyway Q after Q well that turned out not so good either night in the cell next up in court i said to the judge a few home truth's and as normal they side with the goverment and there came a weeks holiday HMP and a fine to add to my outburst my old saying is nothing ventured nothing gained. i have spoke to the papers about this farce i went in to get some truth about the lie's these people, to tell all i got was (we never lie) whether they make a story about this who knows.

But because im headstrong i don't give up easy i will be fighting again, when someone with a disablement that has not got a lot, i try to survive on what little i get to keep my head above water.

My old saying is if your back is against the wall what is the first line of defence it is attack.

So my next mission will be no 10 once i see what is going down with new parliment,

as i say when you got nothing and at you lowest it means to me to fight for whats right..

 

 

Don't give up!

if you deserve you benifit fight for it.

ESA and the muppets that are behind this farce it's not working.

Here's my campain link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/251610-calling-all-disabled-people.html

 

Libro :)

 

 

 

I fully appreciate the anger you must feel, LIRBO. I agree that ESA is not doing what it was designed to do. It is not supporting the genuinely ill and yes, something needs to be done about it.

 

The members here are more than welcome to use the forum to brainstorm and discuss ideas for campaigning. However when someone goes to an ATOS centre and "clumps" an innocent party with a walking stick - CAG cannot support that.

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that the buildings used by ATOS are not all solely used by them. Many of them house other organisations too, which means innocent parties can get caught in the cross-fire. A security guard is there to do a job. He is nothing to do with whether or not a person gets awarded a benefit and CAG cannot support the assualt on him, or on anyone else for that matter.

 

Now, I do not want to see the ATOS threads removed. Particularly at a time when awareness about ESA is greater than it has ever been, and support is being drummed up. Numbers can make a campaign all the more successful. CAG will continue to allow the forum for discussion of a way forward. However if it comes to a stage where we have to pull the threads then we will do so.

 

Keep campaigning, but do it sensibly. In a way that will work for change, not a way that will put you behind bars. It's hard enough for people to be taken seriously with this campaign.

  • Haha 1

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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I fully appreciate the anger you must feel, LIRBO. I agree that ESA is not doing what it was designed to do. It is not supporting the genuinely ill and yes, something needs to be done about it.

 

The members here are more than welcome to use the forum to brainstorm and discuss ideas for campaigning. However when someone goes to an ATOS centre and "clumps" an innocent party with a walking stick - CAG cannot support that. Fair Enough ERICA

 

It's also worth bearing in mind that the buildings used by ATOS are not all solely used by them. I Konw This Many of them house other organisations too, which means innocent parties can get caught in the cross-fire. A security guard is there to do a job. He is nothing to do with whether or not a person gets awarded a benefit I Know This, He Was Mauling Me First So I Reacted It's In My Nature To Protect One's Self and CAG cannot support the assualt on him, or on anyone else for that matter. Im Not Asking For Support To Go Around Beating On People Sorry If That's How It Looks But That's Not The Intention I Can Assure Of That.

 

Now, I do not want to see the ATOS threads removed. Particularly at a time when awareness about ESA is greater than it has ever been, and support is being drummed up. Numbers can make a campaign all the more successful. CAG will continue to allow the forum for discussion of a way forward. However if it comes to a stage where we have to pull the threads then we will do so. Ok

 

Keep campaigning, but do it sensibly. In a way that will work for change, not a way that will put you behind bars. It's hard enough for people to be taken seriously with this campaign.

 

Sorry Erica Please Forgive Me..

 

Libro

My advice is based on my opinion and my experience. It is not to be taken as legal advice as I am not legally qualified

If my advice has been helpful, please take a moment to click on the scales

on the bottom left hand side of my profile :p

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Nice one Libro, and thanks for your reply to one of mine - I got lost around the site (cos I get confused, not cos of the site btw) and will have another look at it again in a bit cos it was useful.

 

If you want to sign my petition "Sack Atos Immediately":

Sack Atos Healthcare Immediately Petition

 

If you want to see my Freedom Of Information request "Control of Atos, a contractor of DWP":

Control of Atos Healthcare, a contractor to DWP - WhatDoTheyKnow

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He Was Mauling Me First So I Reacted

 

To be fair, I read Libro's post as him reacting in self-defence. I don't believe any regular Cagger would condone violence but, and rightly so, we should support the victims of crime and injustice...

Best wishes

Rae

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To be fair, I read Libro's post as him reacting in self-defence. I WAS I don't believe any regular Cagger would condone violence but, and rightly so, we should support the victims of crime and injustice...

Best wishes

Rae

 

And im Disabled too.

 

LIBRO

My advice is based on my opinion and my experience. It is not to be taken as legal advice as I am not legally qualified

If my advice has been helpful, please take a moment to click on the scales

on the bottom left hand side of my profile :p

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To be fair, I read Libro's post as him reacting in self-defence. I don't believe any regular Cagger would condone violence but, and rightly so, we should support the victims of crime and injustice...

Best wishes

Rae

 

He did not mention this in his post describing the situation; his post states that he lashed out because he was not getting anywhere. There was no mention of any mauling until after the post had been noted by the site team.

 

LIBRO should have advised the police that he was acting in defence and described in which way he was "mauled". If he has done so and an assault on LIBRO not been taken seriously or investigated properly, then an official complaint should be made to the police requesting an invesitgation into the manner in which the situation was handled.

 

In any case, LIBRO appears to have gone down there with the intention of confronting a person who has no power to alter the system. Such measures do little to assist a campaign, this type of measure simply places claimants at a further disadvantage as they are placed in a light which makes them look aggresive.

 

As stated CAG will continue to support your campaign by allowing your voices to be heard through the forum. We are here for the consumer however we also have to protect the interests of the site, which does not extend to supporting aggresive methods of campaign.

 

Keep fighting, but do it together and do it in a manner which will make people listen, and parliment sit up and take notice, so that if there is a repeat episode there are witness to any backlash.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

forum rules to advise via private message, therefore pm's requesting private advice will not receive a response.

(exceptions for prior authorisation)

 

 

 

 

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Whilst I completely agree with the gist of what you are saying, Erika, the reason I read the original post as self-defence - albeit clumsily phrased [apols Libro] - was this:

 

so i lashed out and said get your hands of my to the security gaurd

 

I presumed 'my' was a typo and should have been 'me' which gives the impression the security guard had got physical with him.

Or a word could be missing and the security guard could have taken something from his possession.

 

I could be wrong of course it was just how I read it ...

 

Best wishes

Rae

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Sorry to keep you all hanging on.

 

Ok here's what happend,

 

i decided to take a trip to a dwp-atos office london(i can't say which one been advised not to) off i went to have my say, i go get to the said office in london only to be met by this security gaurd and he ask me can i help you i replied yes you can is there any chance of talking to a manager or supervisor i have some private questions i would like to put to them he said wait a minute i will find out he came back and said someone will be with you in a bit, i said ok thanks, 5 minutes later the manager turned up he then ask me what can i do for you so i said can i be blunt and get to the point he said ok, so then i go onto say why is it that you treat the disabled in this way he then said what do you mean i reply these so called assesments you do for this ESA benifit, and i said about your DM's and so called Atos medical staff, no reply i said you can see from peoples esa50-ib50 forms there problems you don't ask them what's on there forms and put a completely different story to what is on there forms and don't take there Doc's reports ect, he went red in the face and asked me to leave i said i hit the nail on the head have i the truth hurts.

With that they called security and again asked me to leave i replied with some strong words like the truth hurts and (bearing in mind i had my walking stick) so i thought im not getting anywere here so then i thought what the hell so i lashed out and said get your hands of my to the security gaurd he though he was a big man so i clumped him with my stick and replied skrew you.

The next thing the police was called and carted me down to the cop shop to be interveiwed it was a shame anyway Q after Q well that turned out not so good either night in the cell next up in court i said to the judge a few home truth's and as normal they side with the goverment and there came a weeks holiday HMP and a fine to add to my outburst my old saying is nothing ventured nothing gained. i have spoke to the papers about this farce i went in to get some truth about the lie's these people, to tell all i got was (we never lie) whether they make a story about this who knows.

But because im headstrong i don't give up easy i will be fighting again, when someone with a disablement that has not got a lot, i try to survive on what little i get to keep my head above water.

My old saying is if your back is against the wall what is the first line of defence it is attack.

 

So my next mission will be no 10 once i see what is going down with new parliment,

as i say when you got nothing and at you lowest it means to me to fight for whats right..

 

 

Don't give up!

if you deserve you benifit fight for it.

ESA and the muppets that are behind this farce it's not working.

Here's my campain link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/251610-calling-all-disabled-people.html

 

Libro :)

 

 

so you assaulted somebody with a weapon because you couldnt get your own way, thats not going to give you a good image now is it?

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Hi all,

been on a mission of justice,

it cost me a week inside Her Majesty's prison.

The food was crap.

we must keep fighting this shame.

 

Libro

 

ESA out.

 

'only 'we' know the distress and anxiety & frustation ESA AKA AS COULDN'T GIVE ATOS causes. thumbs up to you hun. I am with you all the way:)

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Remember folks it is better to not go and visit them like this as it will cause future issues and make our complaints against them look weaker if we do rash things and end up being detained at her majesty's pleasure.

 

The right thing to do is leave them alone for now untill we can stack up so much evidence against them then hand it in to our MP's or the courts of human rights or something like that.

 

Grats to libro for trying to raise awareness of our plight but it lead to something else happening in the wrong light.

 

I know people are upset/angry etc but we must rise above ATOSs pettyness and take the high moral ground.

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Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with you, hendo, it remains far from clear that the OP wasn't defending themselves...

Best wishes

Rae

 

I have read the posts too, maybe libro wasn't as clear as he could of been when he made the posts and I fully understand his intentions of a peaceful person who was put into an extremely difficult situation and he responded in a way as to defend himself.

 

Cool heads are what are needed now :) I hope libro wont go off without the rest of us next time :grin:

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