MBNA county court Summons " Help Please

[DizzieDiva2010]

It shouldn't be allocated to Fast Track the Court rules are quite clear.Debts of 5K and above can be dealt with in SCT

if the claim is straight forward.Nowhere (that I am aware)does it state that claims below 5K can or should be allocated to FT irrespective of complexity. Agreed!

I mean how complicated can £2.5 K get? :!:The Claimant from the first AQ as insisted that it be FT and you DD have selected SCT as it should be. Agreed!

The DJ (initially agreed with the Claimant for what ever reason unknown only to himself and the Claimant) has been steered by the by the Claimant.

The Claimant as steered the Track with the full knowledge and reason to use this as its threat in attempt to stop you DD from defending the matter. Agreed & more determined to fight!

 

However you must submit your N170 shortly which is basically a final check list that both parties are agreed on all aspects before this fiasco continues to trial. Is this section E The Trial of the N170? Its asking me how long the trial is estimated to take and do i agree with the other parties?

You will have further opportunity DD to broach your grievance on the above matter and make it know what is actually going on here.

Some/most trials, on completion of the N170 are given further opportunity to clarify by way of a Pre Trial Hearing (not always but in most cases FT)

again you will have opportunity to state your grievance.

 

Lastly in the event that you do lose at trial again you must state that you are not in agreement with the Claimants costs and vigorously demand that they be assessed. I certainly will!

Its the DJ that has the last say on the Claimants costs and if he agrees with you will request a detailed assessment which will involve a court appointed Draftsman before any Costs certificate is allowed.So not all is lost. Gives me a little comfort.

 

DD do not send that letter you have drafted, its not protocol and smacks of desperation. Always appreciate your good advice thankyou

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

This is a right fiasco but all on their behalf, they have wasted the courts time and i will make the court aware of this.

One last question do i need to send photocopies of all the documents i am going to rely on as i will need to go to the library to photocopy these pages.

[AndyOrch]

Yes DD Section E make known you dont agree with either track or time allocated.

You have already submitted your N265 ( Disclosure) no need for you to submit further copies.

The N170 is mainly for the Claimant ( further Fee) and conformation that all directions have been complied with

and if not why not? Estimated and final Costs etc.

 

When a date is fixed for trial (otherwise known as the final hearing) or a trial window is laid down in litigation, the court will also require the parties to file pre-trial checklists to ascertain the status of preparation of the parties for the trial. These forms are also referred to as listing questionnaires. The parties to the litigation will usually have 14 days to complete the reviews and file them with the court unless they have been dispensed with; cost estimates for the trial are filed simultaneously. Courts maintain a discretion to dispense with pre-trial checklists.

Pre-trial checklists are also used to ensure that parties have complied with the directions of the court that have been made previously in the litigation, assist the time that should be allocated by the court for the trial, the dates upon which to fix the trial. The court may require the parties to attend a listing hearing or pre-trial review if the pre-trial checklists do not provide adequate information or the court otherwise considers it necessary to convene a pretrial hearing for the purposes of determining the steps that are required to be completed prior to commencement of the trial.

Court fees are payable by the claimant when filing of the checklist. If a case is to proceed on a counterclaim alone, the court fee must be paid by the defendant. The fee is payable by the claimant when filing the pre-trial checklist, which differs for litigation in the High Court and County Courts. The court may exercise its discretion to strike-out the claim or counterclaim if the fees are not paid following service of a reminder.

 

Andy

[DizzieDiva2010]

Yes DD Section E make known you dont agree with either track or time allocated.

You have already submitted your N265 ( Disclosure) no need for you to submit further copies.

The N170 is mainly for the Claimant ( further Fee) and conformation that all directions have been complied with

and if not why not? Estimated and final Costs etc.

 

When a date is fixed for trial (otherwise known as the final hearing) or a trial window is laid down in litigation, the court will also require the parties to file pre-trial checklists to ascertain the status of preparation of the parties for the trial. These forms are also referred to as listing questionnaires. The parties to the litigation will usually have 14 days to complete the reviews and file them with the court unless they have been dispensed with; cost estimates for the trial are filed simultaneously. Courts maintain a discretion to dispense with pre-trial checklists.

Pre-trial checklists are also used to ensure that parties have complied with the directions of the court that have been made previously in the litigation, assist the time that should be allocated by the court for the trial, the dates upon which to fix the trial. The court may require the parties to attend a listing hearing or pre-trial review if the pre-trial checklists do not provide adequate information or the court otherwise considers it necessary to convene a pretrial hearing for the purposes of determining the steps that are required to be completed prior to commencement of the trial.

Court fees are payable by the claimant when filing of the checklist. If a case is to proceed on a counterclaim alone, the court fee must be paid by the defendant. The fee is payable by the claimant when filing the pre-trial checklist, which differs for litigation in the High Court and County Courts. The court may exercise its discretion to strike-out the claim or counterclaim if the fees are not paid following service of a reminder.

 

Andy

 

Understood thank you.

[DizzieDiva2010]

Can letters from Restons without prejudice written on them be used as evidence? I don't understand the without prejudice statement.

[gh2008]

Can letters from Restons without prejudice written on them be used as evidence? I don't understand the without prejudice statement.

 

If the correspondence is part of a genuine attempt to settle the dispute then no, you cannot.

 

IF the letters are NOT part of a genuine attempt at settlement then yes, but you should take advice and tread carefully as you would need to show very clearly why their privileged status should be revoked. If it was to show an 'Unfair Relationship' then that could be good reason.

 

Claimants seem to think sticking WP on nasty letters means that the defendant won't use them against them........

and yes I have done it and yes it works in practice as well as theory

 

------

 

Just to add - I am not up to speed with your thread and you are far better off relying on Andy's advice as to what you are able to do with resepect to the stage of the claim etc etc

 

I was answering in general

Edited February 23, 2011 by gh2008
added last bit

[AndyOrch]

Also have a read here DD in the stickys by The Mould Privileged, Without Prejudice and Without Prejudice Save as to Cost Documents - A Brief Guide on the Subject

[DizzieDiva2010]

All of there letters to me are marked without prejudice and they offer a Tomlin Order at £20 per month but asking for a £500 cash upfront deposit. Shall i post up the letters for you to view gh2008?

[DizzieDiva2010]

Also have a read here DD in the stickys by The Mould Privileged, Without Prejudice and Without Prejudice Save as to Cost Documents - A Brief Guide on the Subject

 

Thanks Andy but iv read that and i just cant get my head around it really, i just want to know if i cn disclose these letters or not? They obviously dont want the courts to view these letters. Yet I have nothing to hide.

[gh2008]

That's a perfect example of what IS covered by WP!!

 

It is a genuine attempt at a settlement - whether you can afford it or not is not part of the criteria.

 

So, the answer to that one is no and you also cannot mention the details of the offer.

You *could* say something regarding your own offers and state that they were not accepted

[DizzieDiva2010]

If the correspondence is part of a genuine attempt to settle the dispute then no, you cannot.

 

IF the letters are NOT part of a genuine attempt at settlement then yes, but you should take advice and tread carefully as you would need to show very clearly why their privileged status should be revoked. If it was to show an 'Unfair Relationship' then that could be good reason.

 

Claimants seem to think sticking WP on nasty letters means that the defendant won't use them against them........

and yes I have done it and yes it works in practice as well as theory

 

------

 

Just to add - I am not up to speed with your thread and you are far better off relying on Andy's advice as to what you are able to do with resepect to the stage of the claim etc etc

 

I was answering in general

 

Yes sure no worries thanks for your input.

[DizzieDiva2010]

That's a perfect example of what IS covered by WP!!

 

It is a genuine attempt at a settlement - whether you can afford it or not is not part of the criteria.

 

So, the answer to that one is no and you also cannot mention the details of the offer.

You *could* say something regarding your own offers and state that they were not accepted

 

So that may be, however the letters i sent to them did not mark without prejudice and is full of information with regards to their offer of a Tomlin Order and i have disclosed them, so if you ask me them marking their letters without prejudice only makes them look like they have something to hide. Also the Tomlin Order the barrister did on toilet paper outside the courtroom was not marked without prejudice and this includes ALL THE COURT COSTS when the Judge made no costs ordered for that hearing, but they were trying to put that on me. I will and can disclose that behaviour cant I?

[AndyOrch]

Dizzy

 

I am somewhat at a loss to your train of questions here. You have already provided your disclosure list (N265) months back.

You cant disclose using the N170 (which is at the stage you are now) Where do you intend to disclose the letters you refer to now?

 

Your N265 is what you have opted to use and referred to in your Defence, anything not on that list can not be relied upon.

 

Andy

[diddydicky]

Without prejudice – what does it mean?

 

 

 

Without prejudice – what is it?

 

Without prejudice is one of those legal phrases which are often used in casual conversation, but what does it really mean?

 

Without prejudice is a useful way of protecting your position in a dispute. Say you are a landlord and have a dispute with your tenant about a broken fridge freezer.

 

You are pretty sure that they damaged it during a party, they are positive that it was already broken when they took the flat over. It was brand new and to get a replacement is going to cost you £600.

 

You are very busy right now and don’t really want the hassle of dealing with a court claim. You would be prepared to accept just £300 just to get rid of the problem so you can move on.

 

However if the matter can’t be settled and you DO have go to court, you would want to claim the whole £600. If you offer to accept £300 now, will this prejudice your claim? Will the Judge say “Well if they were prepared to accept £300 for it back in August, their claim for £600 must be grossly inflated and should be disallowed?”

 

The answer is that if the offer is made ‘without prejudice’ he won’t (or shouldn’t) ever see it. Because without prejudice offers are confidential, and information about them should not be given to the Judge (or arbitrator if this is an arbitration) during the hearing.

 

The only time the Judge gets to hear about the offer is after Judgment is made. If the Judge, quite independently, comes to the conclusion that the landlords case is not the best, but that he should at least be entitled to £300, the landlord can say ‘Well I made an offer to settle for that back in August, but the other side rejected it”.

 

Then the Judge may decide to make a costs order, ordering the tenant to pay more in legal costs than he would normally, on the basis that the tenant has been wasting his time as the case could have been settled earlier. The courts are so busy now, and so underfunded, that wasting the Judge’s time is almost a capital offence.

 

Using without prejudice in legal cases

 

The example above is only a small fictitious case to illustrate the point. In big litigation cases run by solicitors, there are always negotiations to settle (and in fact most cases are settled before trial). The solicitors will generally have two completely separate sets of correspondence, the ‘open’ correspondence and the ‘without prejudice’ correspondence.

 

So for example the solicitors might write quite an aggressive letter setting out all that is wrong about the other side’s case, and then in the same envelope include a ‘without prejudice’ letter offering to settle the claim for £5,000!

 

If the attempts to settle fail, and the claim comes to trial, the open correspondence is generally put in a bundle for the Judge to see. It is very important when doing this that none of the ‘without prejudice’ correspondence is included by mistake, as if it is and the Judge sees it, in some cases there may have to be a re-trial. Which could be very expensive.

 

So that is without prejudice.

 

Three important points

 

There are three important things you need to know about without prejudice. To be able to use it, and prevent your discussions being used against you if your case comes to trial:

 

There must be a genuine dispute underway

Your discussion/letter must be a genuine attempt to resolve it, and

You must keep your without prejudice negotiations private or you may lost your right to confidentiality.

Also note that correspondence can be judged to be without prejudice even if it does not say it is, but it is best to write ‘without prejudice’ on the letter anyway so there can be no mistake. And if you have ‘without prejudice’ discussions, make sure you keep a careful note of everything that was said.

[diddydicky]

the final paragraph means that if one side writes to the other under WP- then the other's response to that letter is also WP even if it is not marked as such!!

 

hope that explains

[DizzieDiva2010]

Dizzy

 

I am somewhat at a loss to your train of questions here. You have already provided your disclosure list (N265) months back.

You cant disclose using the N170 (which is at the stage you are now) Where do you intend to disclose the letters you refer to now?

 

Your N265 is what you have opted to use and referred to in your Defence, anything not on that list can not be relied upon.

 

Andy

 

All the letters Restons have sent me i put in my list of disclosure posted to MBNA and i have not sent my documents to the court as yet because i wasnt aware i had to, i only thought i had to send my witness statement, however i telphoned the court yesterday who advised me to send them in. Therefore i wasnt sure if i should send these without prejudice lettes in or not, seems silly not to if you ask me, what harm can it do? I get confused with all these different forms and with my other court case too!!!

[AndyOrch]

Well if its all your letters which are not marked WP and they are on your N265 then proceed. Dont use any of theirs.

[DizzieDiva2010]

the final paragraph means that if one side writes to the other under WP- then the other's response to that letter is also WP even if it is not marked as such!!

 

hope that explains

 

Yes Diddy that does explain thank you. Therefore i cannot use my own letters as it is a responce to their letter marked WP...However like i said the drafted Tomlin Order on paper outside the court is not marked WP so i will disclose that.

[DizzieDiva2010]

Well if its all your letters which are not marked WP and they are on your N265 then proceed. Dont use any of theirs.

 

I will do Andy im getting them all in the post today.

[DizzieDiva2010]

I have wrote to MBNA three times asking them for the past six years statements and still they have not sent them to me, who can i report this to?

[citizenB]

I have wrote to MBNA three times asking them for the past six years statements and still they have not sent them to me, who can i report this to?

 

 

Information Commissioner - ICO. Did you request those statements as part of a Subject Access request ?

[DizzieDiva2010]

Information Commissioner - ICO. Did you request those statements as part of a Subject Access request ?

 

I did and i only recieved statements back to 2008, the reason i require them is because i had two different accounts with them and the second account they are using the executed agreement from the first account which had a nil balance and i was closed. I believe this is the reason they will not provide me with them.

[gh2008]

I would write a formal complaint to MBNA singling out this issue.

 

I would also complain to the ICO, because they have already clearly breached the DPA

 

You *could* also make an application to Court for an Order for them to disclose the statements. CPR31.12 (as long as it is not on SCT - if it is then you would have to ask the Court to 'use its general powers' I think)

 

jmho

[DizzieDiva2010]

I would write a formal complaint to MBNA singling out this issue.

 

I would also complain to the ICO, because they have already clearly breached the DPA

 

You *could* also make an application to Court for an Order for them to disclose the statements. CPR31.12 (as long as it is not on SCT - if it is then you would have to ask the Court to 'use its general powers' I think)

 

jmho

 

Hi gh2008, i have reminded them that they have not supplied me these statements (3 occasions)! The hearing is in the fast track so i could put an order in for CPR31.12 couldnt i? Im sure they have no executed agreement for this latest account and their also saying there is a further account number in betwwen the two i know of, I can only remember having two accounts with them. Does CPR31.12 cost?

[DizzieDiva2010]

[DizzieDiva2010]

For a female Judge do you call them Mam?