Credit Ref Agency reply to DPA s.12 request-help please

[Number6]

I have a further reply from Callcredit.

 

I sent this to them on 30th August

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I do not agree with your claim that Callcredit is not subject to Part 2 Section 12(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998. The relevant paragraph reads:

 

“An individual is entitled at any time, by notice in writing to any data controller, to require the data controller to ensure that no decision taken by or on behalf of the data controller which significantly affects that individual is based solely on the processing by automatic means of personal data in respect of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct.”

 

You will note that nowhere does it mention any role in the acceptance or otherwise of credit applications, merely that any Data Controller must ensure that no decision is taken based on automated processing of subject data. This does not refer solely to the prospective lender but to any Data Controller involved in the process and this includes Callcredit. You will of course be aware that breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 is a criminal offence.

 

I would also draw your attention to Part XII Supplemental of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 174 which states:

 

“174 Restrictions on disclosure of information

 

(1) No information obtained under or by virtue of this Act about any individual shall be disclosed without his consent.”

 

There are some organisations that are exempt from this provision but none of them is a Credit Reference Agency.

 

Callcredit is making my subject data available to any applicant via an automated process and without Callcredit holding any contract or other permission from me to store or process it by any means, let alone by an automated process. If you disagree with this statement please send me a true and certified copy of the contract whereby I have agreed that you may hold and process my data.

 

I repeat my demand that you remove all data relating to me from any of your systems that allow the data to be automatically processed. I will give you a further seven days to conform to this demand following which I will commence legal action to enforce your compliance with the Data Protection Act 1998 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974; this action will incur fees and costs for which you may become liable.

 

I look forward to receiving your confirmation by close of business on 8th September 2006.

 

On Saturday I got the following reply:

 

Dear ***********

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

 

Your comments have been noted and, in accordance with our internal complaints procedure, this matter has now been referred to our legal team for final review.

 

Yours, etc

 

Sounds to me like a stalling letter prior to a final sod off letter.

 

What do others think?

 

Pete

[Enough's Enough]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enough's Enough

Has there been a template made to this effect yet???? As I think there'll he a mass of them sent out if there were....

 

I've looked but cant find one on the template section....I appologise if I've missed it....

 

 

There isn't one. Would you like to create one? :grin:

 

LOL...Now let me see.....Umm....Ok....Ummm....

 

I'll start with Blah Blah Blah Then add A bit of this'n'that law ending it with a Yours Truly....How does that sound???

 

Can we get a mod to sticky it for everyone to use!!!!! May I just say NO PROBLEM AT ALL in advance for my helpful template

 

On a serious note....& As Im not the greatest on the Law etc...But would it be a good idea or any use for someone who knows what their doing to make a standard template on this????

 

Just an Idea.....

[SurlyBonds]

LOL...Now let me see.....Umm....Ok....Ummm....

 

I'll start with Blah Blah Blah Then add A bit of this'n'that law ending it with a Yours Truly....How does that sound???

 

Can we get a mod to sticky it for everyone to use!!!!! May I just say NO PROBLEM AT ALL in advance for my helpful template

 

On a serious note....& As Im not the greatest on the Law etc...But would it be a good idea or any use for someone who knows what their doing to make a standard template on this????

 

Just an Idea.....

 

Okay... I'll post one I've used earlier.

[Guest Alison82]

I have a question that occoured to me over the weekend re third parties.

 

When you apply for new credit they ask you for your permission to conduct a credit search, on the phone, in branch and i'm sure they also do on application forms. So does this not give the CRA right to give our data?

[Number6]

I just got this email back from Experian:

 

Our Ref: **********

 

11 September 2006

 

Dear *************

 

Thank you for your e-mails received on 6 September 2006 and 8 September 2006

 

I am sorry that you feel that by not answering your e-mail within 48 hours that this constitutes me ceasing to communicate with you.

 

As I was out of the office on Friday (you should have received an e-mailed acknowledgement to this effect when you sent your follow up e-mail on 8 September) I was unable to immediately reply to your latest correspondence.

 

Furthermore, you may wish to note that legally we have 28 days to respond to the correspondence that we receive and although we always respond well within this timeframe, we cannot always answer as quickly as requested.

 

Returning to the issues of automated decision making, I note that you do not accept that Experian does not make decisions about that data that we hold.

 

I can confirm that we do provide consumers with an option to obtain a credit score via our online services. This service is simply a guide to consumers to show them how a lender may score a credit report and this is made clear to anybody who requests a scored assessment of their report from us.

 

The credit score given to consumers that request this is based upon a scoring criteria that we have devised. This credit score is not given to any lenders who conduct searches on the individual concerned and therefore cannot formulate the basis upon which a lender makes a decision.

 

Companies that make scored assessments on individuals for the purpose of a lending decision will have their own specific scoring system, which will be developed around the criteria that are most important to them. This may also take into consideration things such as the applicant's annual income and value of their property - information that is not available to Experian.

 

Therefore, any lender using a scoring system to assess applicants will be choosing their own method of scoring the data that we hold and the score required for an application to be accepted. Consequently, it is evident that it is the company to whom an individual applies that is making an automated decision and not Experian.

 

In view of this, we will continue to process your data and will not be adhering to your request under Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I strongly recommend that before presenting this matter in Court that you seek clarification of our position with our regulator, the Information Commissioner, or with a recognised legal representative.

 

As you seem well aware of what a judge may consider to be a waste of court time, I am sure that you can appreciate that taking a matter to court without firstly seeking recognised legal advise to verify the strength of your case could well be construed as such. This would be particularly wise given that the recognised regulatory body has endorsed our viewpoint.

 

Kind regards

 

Mr Paul Lever

 

Consumer Compliance Executive

 

Directors' Office

 

Any comments from anyone?

 

Pete

[countrybake]

they certainly don't want you to take it to court thats a fact

[Peterbard]

please forgive me if this point has been raised before.

But as I understand it the cra's say that ther only store data that is in the public domain and they do not add anything themselves. On my credit report there are entries of every other seatch done by other companies.I do not think this information is in the public domain nor do i recall giving the cra permision to record it.

peter

[SurlyBonds]

please forgive me if this point has been raised before.

But as I understand it the cra's say that ther only store data that is in the public domain and they do not add anything themselves. On my credit report there are entries of every other seatch done by other companies.I do not think this information is in the public domain nor do i recall giving the cra permision to record it.

peter

 

I am not prepared to have my advice and comments edited abritrarily by someone with a personal anti-SB issue, so I have removed my original response in full. Either my advice is left intact, or I will remove it completely.

Thank you for your understanding.

SurlyBonds

[Number6]

Eh...???

 

Can we not have infighting on here please. It's hard enough trying to fight the banks and CRA's without us trying to shoot each other down.

 

I have no idea what this tiff is about but please take it elsewhere, not on my thread. Thank you.

[SurlyBonds]

Eh...???

 

Can we not have infighting on here please. It's hard enough trying to fight the banks and CRA's without us trying to shoot each other down.

 

I have no idea what this tiff is about but please take it elsewhere, not on my thread. Thank you.

 

4x4... I totally agree... I likewise thought that we were supposed to be fighting the common denominator. Maybe there's just not enough to do around here. I dunno... doesn't make sense... well it does, if you know the full background story.

 

Anyway, how's your case with the Muppet CRAs coming along? Any replies from them yet?

[Number6]

Getting nowhere fast SB. See post 180 on previous page of this thread for latest reply from Experian. They completely "forgot" to comment on my withdrawl of my permission for them to hold my private data so I've asked them again

 

Pete

[Number6]

Equifax, since writing back to me stating that they "must" allow lenders to see my file and the "cannot prevent" them have not replied to either of my follow up letters.

 

Callcredit have apparently placed my complaint with their legal team for comment???

 

Pete

[countrybake]

I am not prepared to have my advice and comments edited abritrarily by someone with a personal anti-SB issue, so I have removed my original response in full. Either my advice is left intact, or I will remove it completely.

Thank you for your understanding.

SurlyBonds

 

hi surlybonds i look forward to your responses great reads thankyou but my brain is racing here at the moment thinking there is a conspiracy to what ever you typed there before that nobody wants us to see (a bit like the who killed kennedy thing).

 

keep up the good work RESPECT!8-)

[SurlyBonds]

Getting nowhere fast SB. See post 180 on previous page of this thread for latest reply from Experian. They completely "forgot" to comment on my withdrawl of my permission for them to hold my private data so I've asked them again

 

Pete

 

yes, these Muppet CRAs do tend to try avoiding the actual questions that you ask... a bit like some of their representatives, either by letter or other mediums... allegedly...

 

I'll go back and have a read... that's assuming I can still find it there?! I've seen more posting disappear tonight than "new chequebooks and credit cards delivery day" at Kings Cross Sorting Office (Source: Panorama, sometime last year)

Allegedly...;-)

 

Now that was post #180... so that will be between #179 and #181 then,... going back in time now.(cue TARDIS and Dr Who theme tune)

[SurlyBonds]

 

hi surlybonds i look forward to your responses great reads thankyou but my brain is racing here at the moment thinking there is a conspiracy to what ever you typed there before that nobody wants us to see (a bit like the who killed kennedy thing).

 

keep up the good work RESPECT!8-)

 

No, there is no grassy-knoll, and it was just a single man with a bolt-action in a book warehouse....allegedly...

 

I think my more recent posting about our 'friend' from E******n upset someone...allegedly... (although curiously, my earlier, equally scorning one, replied-to by the very dave himself, wasn't considered in a similar light and remains intact???)... and then it all kicked off, and some of the greenies are now doing more lock-downs on my posts than the warders during a full-out riot at Alcatraz...allegedly...

 

And, by the way, that second bullet DID go through 170 degrees before turning back in mid-air and then hitting Gov. Connelly after taking out JFK...and don't you let them tell you otherwise...just like the banks say that charges are fair, and all the Muppets in the CRAs keep trying to tell us that they have a "legal right"...

 

...allegedly...;-)

[countrybake]

:lol:

 

Okay... I'll post one I've used earlier.

 

whatever happened to that template letter anyway.

[SurlyBonds]

:lol:

 

 

 

whatever happened to that template letter anyway.

 

 

Whatever happened to what template letter??

[countrybake]

Okay... I'll post one I've used earlier.

post 178

[Peterbard]

I am not prepared to have my advice and comments edited abritrarily by someone with a personal anti-SB issue, so I have removed my original response in full. Either my advice is left intact, or I will remove it completely.

Thank you for your understanding.

SurlyBonds

I think i am missing something here i do not understand this response.

[Peterbard]

Perhaps if I rephrase the question

 

If the CCA,s have the right to access credit information about a persons fiscal activity on a particular account due to the fact the customer signed an authority on their contract, OK

If the CCAs have a right to disclose that activity because they were given consent when the aplication for credit or whatever was appied for.OK

 

But who gave them consent to disclose to a third party which organisations have had access to that data file?

[Guest Alison82]

This is what I was asking on the last page, when you apply for credit do you not give your consent for them to perform a credit search?!

[Peterbard]

This is what I was asking on the last page, when you apply for credit do you not give your consent for them to perform a credit search?!

 

Exactly and if it does,doesen't that consent expire when the contract is not taken up,and shouldn't the record of that enquiry then be deleted.

[snootycow]

That's what i was wondering too, because they say that the searches done when you apply for credit make your credit rating worse?!? How long do these stay on for?

[Number6]

After more prevarication from Equifax and Experian I have sent the following email to both of them (obviously with different addresses and company names ) :

 

Experian Ltd

PO BOX 7710

Nottingham

NG80 7WE

 

14th September 2006

 

DATA SUBJECT NOTICE SERVED UNDER:

The Data Protection Act 1998, Section 10 (1)

And

STATUTORY NOTICE SERVED UNDER:

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 174

 

Dear Sir

 

I hereby withdraw my permission and refuse to grant any future permissions for Experian Ltd or any subsidiary company of Experian Ltd to store or process any data relating or pertaining to me on the grounds that your continuing to hold or process such data will cause me and others unwarranted damage and distress.

 

You have seven days to comply with the request under Section 174 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 S. 10(1) I require Experian Ltd or any subsidiary company of Experian Ltd to cease, or not to begin, processing any personal data of which I am the subject. The only exceptions allowed are for data that is legally in the public domain; examples are details of bankruptcy, IVA’s and CCJ’s i.e. sealed orders issued by a Judge in a court of law. You have no legal right to hold or process any other data without my express permission; to do so is a criminal offence.

 

Under the terms of the Data Protection Act you must within 21 days provide me with a written notice:

 

(a) stating that Experian Ltd has complied or intends to comply with the data subject notice, or

 

(b) stating your reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent unjustified and the extent (if any) to which Experian will comply with or intend to comply with it.

 

I look forward therefore to receiving your written notice at the latest by close of business on the 6th October 2006.

 

Yours,

 

Any thoughts or comments?

 

Pete

[saxon]

hello worcester4X4, I think your last letter is exactly right for the plain English brigade, I understand it.

 

May I use it,

pretty please