In Dispute With Ashbourne Mgmt!

[pokinthruboxers]

Good afternoon folks....I have reposted this here now I have found a section dedicated to gyms etc....hope no-one minds?

 

I come seeking advice on how to proceed with regard to this problem...

 

In December 2009 my wife joined a local gym, via the internet site they posted and agreed to pay by monthly direct debit for her membership....

 

On joining she informed the gym of a pre-existing medical condition of epichondylitis (tennis elbow) and this was noted and she was told not to worry as exercises would be tailored to suit, so as not to aggrevate this condition...Sadly, this was not the case, instruction, was at best rudimentary and a recurrence of epichondylitis occured within the first couple of sessions at the gym...so she stopped attending and cancelled the direct debit.

 

She quickly received a request for payment from...Ashbourne Membership Mgmt. As she was at work at the time of receiving their request, I phoned them on her behalf and explained that she was unable to attend the gym due to this recurrence of her pre-existing condition and that she was seeking medical treatment for it. They requested that she provide medical evidence of this before they could act on her membership.

Hospital treatment in the form of cortisone injections into the elbow were taken and partial relief was gained. However, our GP suggested exercise was not advisable and wrote a letter in support of this to send to Ashbourne Mgmt.

This period took approvimately three months, during which we received demands for payment from Ashbourne, for escalating amounts....eventually culminating in one demanding three years membership ( approx £540.00 ) or face a default registration.

The next we heard from them was too the effect that they were issuing a default registration.

I wrote to them and informed them that medical evidence from our GP was provided and that, as the injury occured within the first month of membership, I did not accept that she was liable for any further payments.

The latest demand I have received is for missed payments and an administaration fee to remove the default notice, totalling £125.50....

Again I have refused to pay them anything and feel that the change in demand from them only supports that they recognise that medical evidence has been forthcoming....

Today, I have contacted the Office of Fair Trading and await a return call from them to discuss my complaint....should I now inform Ashbourne that I intend to seek legal assistance to have them comply with my request to have this default removed?

Further, as far as I can tell, (my wife is a little vague as to what she may have signed) no formal contract exists between her and the gym in question and the same may be said of any credit agreement......certainly she does not have any copies and if they do/did exist how do we obtain them?

 

Some advice on my next step would be gratefully appreciated. I don't intend to pay these leeches a penny and they are starting to annoy me now.......

[pokinthruboxers]

No replies as yet...?

Good job I'm in no rush then....

 

 

I decided to ring them, I was up for a slanging match and the girl I spoke too seemed well versed in same,... seems they want to charge the wife for the time it took them to acknowledge that they had received medical evidence to support my claim made at the time of the initial telephone conversation with them and actually receiving the 'evidence' from our GP!! Insisted that they could do this in the terms of their contract and also charge an administration fee too boot.....

Now given that when the wife aggrevated her epichondylitis, it took several weeks for an hospital appointment to come through, for her then to receive treatment and a confirmed diagnosis and also for our doctor to confirm all this in writing, including too put this down to poor supervision by the gym also that the gym were made fully aware of this pre-existing condition...then I believe they can go whistle..and I told their representative so, in reasonably polite terms!

First thing I have done is ask them for a true copy of the contract they maintain exists....although this was a verbal request. Should I follow this up with a written request?

 

Some response from you good people would be most welcome.....

Edited March 26, 2010 by pokinthruboxers

[pokinthruboxers]

Right...I may be talking to myself here...but....

 

I recieved a form entitled "Members Sign Up"...it was a blank form with absolutely no information regarding my wifes details....This is purportedly the form that is required to be filled in when joining online....

 

Should I disregard this and insist on a detailed 'True' contract that contains details of my wife, or does a blank form constitute a binding contract merely because it seems that to progress onto making payment, this form needs to be completed?

 

Again, a reply would be most welcome.......

[pokinthruboxers]

If this forum has a pulse, someone should check it......

[Conniff]

The forum is very quiet on a weekend so apologise for the slow reply.

 

There are two ways of getting information, a SAR which will cost £10 or a CCA request which will cost £1.

The CCA should get you a copy of the agreement and the SAR should get you copies of everything they hold on you.

These are legal requests and they have a time limit in which to send them or they commit an offence.

[honeybee13]

Hello to the OP. Please be gentle with your fellow caggers. Everyone is doing this voluntarily, and I don't think sarcasm will advance your cause.

 

Call me old-fashioned, which I probably am, and Coniff is free to correct me, but the odd please or thank you never goes amiss and may get you more replies.

 

[Conniff, I love your avatar, would have snaffled it myself if I had got there first.]

 

HB

Edited March 28, 2010 by honeybee13
typo

[Conniff]

 

[Conniff, I love your avatar, would have snaffled it myself if I had got there first.]

 

HB

 

It's a hologram of the inside of my head, got any Aspirin

[pokinthruboxers]

Apologies, I admit to being 'abrasive' by nature, but at least it sparked some response.....an indication I was not talking to myself.....so thank you both, particularly to Conniff whose reply addressed some issues....

 

I think I will start by making the beggars work, so will opt for all info on my wife, via the Subject Access Request you mentioned....The more info I have the more loopholes I can look for......

[pokinthruboxers]

On reflection, I have just drafted this letter....(obvious ommisions to protect privacy....)

 

Your Ref: XXXXX

 

Date:

 

 

Dear Sir Madam,

 

I am in receipt of your blank copy Member Sign Up form, which you allege forms the basis of a contract between my wife and Ashbourne Membership Management.

 

I dispute this and now demand that you accept this letter as a formal written request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit . You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply. If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment and places a duty on you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor, as defined by s.189 of the Act. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are further reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to s.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity and certainly within the statutory time limit allowed for compliance, returning the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Conniff]

I think I would break it up a bit with paragraphs to make it more readable but other than that it is all that is required.

[pokinthruboxers]

Good. Cheers.

 

On its way recorded delivery.........

[pokinthruboxers]

Track and trace shows they have received and signed for my CCA request...so lets see if and when they respond. In the meantime, I received yet another standard threat letter from them today, this one was for the full three years membership again (£560.00 but with a goodwill gesture of a £50.00 reduction, if I pay within seven days!!).....Fat chance.....

[pokinthruboxers]

Well time up for producing a credit agreement or ANYTHING related to the alleged account....so here's my next step....

 

 

Ashbourne Membership Mgmt

PO Box 10920

Shirley

Solihull

B90 8YB

 

Your Reference XXXXXX

 

 

Dear Sir /Madam,

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me with a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On 31/03/2010 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77/78. This was duly signed for as delivered, by your representative, on 1/04/2010.

 

You have failed to comply with my request and as such the account entered default on 19/04/2010.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both parties; your company and myself, as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 1974 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me.

 

As this time limit has now expired, you will be aware that;

 

Section 78 (6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore, this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, have failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods-Examples of unfair practices are as follows-2.8

 

(i) ‘Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued.’

 

(k) ‘Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt’

 

Consequently any legal actions you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Please note that you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any Credit Reference Agencies‘.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. Note, it is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within fourteen days I expect this to mean that you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account while it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add any further charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

 

You have fourteen days from receipt of this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve the matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

This at least should spark a better response than the standard demand for some sort of payment ( although these vary each time!!) that we normally receive.....

 

I also have local Trading Standards Officer on the case, who is writing to them independently to ourselves.....so I'll keep you informed of progress.

[vapour]

You could also request a copy of the par-q completed on joining. If there isn't one then they should have not allowed access to the gym and therefore cannot charge for the service.

[pokinthruboxers]

Sadly my wife informs me that she filled in a health questionnaire on joining...I suspect this was a par-q.

 

So far I have only concerned myself with Ashbourne, but a Subject Access Request to the gym might throw up some additional info, so thanks for that....

[pokinthruboxers]

Today, despite having sent template letters requesting a true copy of any credit agreement, I have received yet another demand for payment from AMM.

No credit agreement has ever been forthcoming, infact this is the first reply I have received from them since my first request!

I am sure they have now breached the law by continuing to pursue a disputed debt.....any advice as too where I go next would be greatly appreciated.

[Conniff]

Did you properly request it and send a £1 with the request?

[pokinthruboxers]

Yes. All sent recorded delivery, receipts all kept and noted.

As were sigantories of letters received by AMM, using track and trace facility.

 

Both letters sent were as detailed in this thread

[fatdog]

Please read my reply regarding this company under thread Penny18 v Ashbourne - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/gyms-health-clubs/262454-penny18-ashbourne-management-gym.html#post2978062

 

Your contract is worthless and has been proven in court. Ashbourne are a payment collection service acting on behalf of gyms. Your relationship is with the gym itself and Ashbourne cannot party themselves to the contract by means of a direct relationship to you.

Edited June 13, 2010 by slick132
added a link