Bailiffs (Phoenix) and Council tax - please help.

[ploddertom]

I appreciate it is difficult given the quality & quantity of replies one here. I believe you need to go back to the beginning and put everything into chronological order. The reason I suggest the Leader of the Council is if you are getting nowhere with your own Councillor then the Leader should be able to exert some reasoning over them. Of course it may be that all the Councillors believe the actions of their Officers and Contractors are correct in which case you have a problem - particularly if they all speak Bailiff.

 

A way forward in my opinion is to get one of them to look at this site and your own thread. They should be then able to grasp some of what has gone on. A very interested Journalist can have the same effect.

 

PT

[burmafriday]

Hi PT

 

yes thanks - been going thru the thread and my various letters.

I'll get my act together and just get it done.

 

Thanks again

[burmafriday]

HI All

i have a bit of an emergency as the bailiffs have now turned up at the door to "remve goods" - i told them that i have a dispute with the council.

 

i told him i was not letting him in and he said he will return with the

lock smith.

 

i have also requested the magistrates court to serve a summons on the council by virtue of regulation 46 Council tax (Administration and enforcement) Regs 1992

 

immediate worry is the bailiff - i dont want him to return with lock smith and force entry.

 

furthermore i have my old aunt here.

 

i am, of course notifying the council that i have requested the magistrates court to serve a summons.

 

got to go serve the letter on the court so hoefully i'll hear from you soon.

 

thanks/BF

[seanamarts]

Im sure I am right in saying this, but they have to gain permission first to come back with a lock smith

[burmafriday]

HI All,

 

since my post earlier, i hv delivered the letter to the magistrates court.

in the meantime, i had a doctors appointment and unfortunately broke down whiilst seeing my doctor - having explained all my problems.

 

he gave me a sick note and took me off work for 3 months and some serious medication and advised that i can apply for Employment Eupport Allowance and various benefits which i am in a process of doing.

 

no further news so far from the bailiffs.

 

look forward to hearing from soon.

 

thanks/BF

[hallowitch]

told him i was not letting him in and he said he will return with the

lock smith.

 

CODE OF PRACTICE

ON

LOCAL AUTHORITIES' USE OF BAILIFFS

IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF LOCAL TAXES

UPDATE & amendment SHEET

April 2000

p5 Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed.

[burmafriday]

Hi Hallowitch,

 

Thanks for your post. I guess that clears the matter. The bailiffs can gain entry as long as they notify me the date and time in advance.

 

But in my case - there are the following

 

a) i have a vulnerable person

b) I did not sign a wlaking posession agreement

c) the notice of siezure is incorrectly completed - in that they have applied a global levy

 

so how do i apply these - i have already notified the council and copied the bailiffs? I have also been to the local police adn showed them the Walking possession agreement. The police said that the levy was improper and global. They also remarked that the signature was not like mine!!

but they cannot do anything as its a civil matter.

 

I am writing letters of complaint to the CEO and the councillor and that all takes time. But in the meantime where do I stand and how do i try and stop the bailiffs from returning with a locksmith?

 

thanks again

BF

[hallowitch]

Hi Hallowitch,

 

Thanks for your post. I guess that clears the matter. The bailiffs can gain entry as long as they notify me the date and time in advance.

 

But in my case - there are the following

 

a) i have a vulnerable person

b) I did not sign a wlaking possession agreement

c) the notice of seizure is incorrectly completed - in that they have applied a global levy

 

so how do i apply these - i have already notified the council and copied the bailiffs? I have also been to the local police adn showed them the Walking possession agreement. The police said that the levy was improper and global. They also remarked that the signature was not like mine!!

but they cannot do anything as its a civil matter.

 

I am writing letters of complaint to the CEO and the councillor and that all takes time. But in the meantime where do I stand and how do i try and stop the bailiffs from returning with a locksmith?

 

thanks again

BF

 

 

your doing the correct thing complain to the CEO

 

the council would have to approve re-entry and the removal of goods

to be honest i cant see that happening in the near future

 

are you making payments to anyone concerning this debt if you are not

start paying the council as much as you can afford even if you have to use postal orders sending it by recorded delivery letter with a letter informing them the order is to pay xxx debt and not this current years council tax

[burmafriday]

Hi Hallowitch,

i sent them an email notifying that i have now got a sick note and that i shall be apply for various benefits

 

Regarding payments to the council - they told me not to send them any payments to them - but to the bailiff. so should i just make the payment by cheque in favour of the council, but send the cheque to the bailiff?

 

i hv started preparing my letters to CEO and Concillor but these will take me time to do as i have to look for a new nursing home for my brother as the current hospital gave a deadline of 05 July.

 

many thanks/BF

[seanamarts]

Hi Hallowitch,

i sent them an email notifying that i have now got a sick note and that i shall be apply for various benefits

 

Regarding payments to the council - they told me not to send them any payments to them - but to the bailiff. so should i just make the payment by cheque in favour of the council, but send the cheque to the bailiff?

 

i hv started preparing my letters to CEO and Concillor but these will take me time to do as i have to look for a new nursing home for my brother as the current hospital gave a deadline of 05 July.

 

many thanks/BF

you can pay it online at the council website

[hallowitch]

send a letter to the council and tell them that due to a change of circumstance financial and personal you feel that you cant make an arrangement with phoenix to pay your council tax arrears

 

1) because you don't know how long it will take to sort out your benefits

you are therefore now not in a position to pay the substantial amounts the bailiff want weekly

2) Phoenix will not allow you pay this debt by standing order

3) you are in the process of moving your disabled brother who is long term care

4) there is a walking possession agreement on your goods the validity being questioned

5) you care for elderly disabled aunt and therefore you are not in a position of offer a weekly manual payment to the Phoenix as 1 day late and you will be charged van/fees and removal of goods they will cancel the agreement and expect you to pay the remainder of the debt within in days plus fees

6) bailiffs fees are deducted before council tax as the levy is being contested you feel it unreasonable to pay these fees before the actual debt

7)

Iam not refusing to pay this debt however for the reasons stated above i feel that i can not enter into any payment agreement with the Phoenix bailiff company that is Hallmarked to fail

 

I look forward to an early reply to this e-mail /letter

as i am anxious to get this situating resolved and a suitable sustainable payment agreement set up that will not be defaulted on by myself

 

 

 

Put the ball back in councils court send it to the Chief executive of your council

all you are asking for is a method payment that is sustainable in your circumstances without the constant threat of goods being removed with locksmith police etc demands for full payment

 

Be warned before you send it they may tell Phoenix to accept £5 week by standing order

Edited July 1, 2010 by hallowitch

[burmafriday]

Hi Seanamarts and Hallowitch

 

many thanks for your contributions and advice. I'll get on it.

Great help!!

 

thanks/BF

[burmafriday]

Hi All,

just to keep u updated:

1. have written to leader of the council

2. hv been in real bad shape in the last couple of months and my doctor gave me a sick note for 3 months off work. so hv sent a copy of this to the council

3. wrote to magistrates court and requested them to issue a summons on the council as a result of their bailiffs serving me global levy and claiming i signed a walking possession order which i had not

4. notifed council of same

5. advised council that if their bailiff di return with a lock smith, my 88 year old aunt and i will not let them in

6. i hv also completed the housing benefit and council tax benefit caim form and Employment will try and submit these today

 

thanks to everyone and all the best/BF

[seanamarts]

good luck with this

[burmafriday]

Hi Everyone

[burmafriday]

Hi Everyone,

 

WE HAVE SUCCESS!!!!!!

 

I received an email from the Council that the debt has been recalled and no further action will be taken by the bailiffs. They said that as there has been no actual restraint on any of my goods they ask that i take no further action on the summons i requested the magistrataes court to issue. (under regulation 46 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement)Regulations 1992.

 

so - the first battle is won and i am really grateful to everyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you. if it were not for your help, support, guidance - i would have gone mad!! i would not have had the strength and focus to keep going.

 

but the war goes on ....

 

they said that hopefully, i will qualify for council tax benefit, but there is no right to withhold payment of Council tax pending assessment.

 

Basically they said that if we cant come to a suitable arrangement, they will take deductions from Job seekers allowance or Income support etc. and ultimately put a charge on my house and send me to prison.

 

so what next? how do i negotiate with these guys to get them to accept my proposal. I am a little stunned at the moment.

 

thanks again .

 

All the best/BF

[seanamarts]

well done this must be a load off your mind. what is it you want to do next...?

[burmafriday]

Hi Seanamarts

 

many thanks for your fast contact.

 

basically, i just need some guidance on negotiating with the council on the repayment of the debt.

 

Do I just submit them a financial statement and a list of creditors and then offer a monthly sum?

 

many thanks/BF

[hallowitch]

good news well done

 

as you are going to be on benefits for the next 3 months at least i would write and ask them to accept an interim payment plan of £5 per week to paid by standing order with a review in 3 months (when your sick benefit runs out)

Edited July 11, 2010 by hallowitch

[ploddertom]

 

Do I just submit them a financial statement and a list of creditors and then offer a monthly sum?

 

many thanks/BF

 

Have they not already asked for this? It appears to me they are in a bit of disarray and don't know themselves the next steps. By all means they can ask what you propose to pay but if on benefits then they should realise that an Attachment to any allowable benefits is the way forward and when/if that source dries up move on to plan B. They should not be mentioning the charging order/prison route as they are towards the end of the chain. If they seek a committal hearing I would imagine the magistrate would tell them in view of your limited income payment that they set would be even lower than any Attachment of Benefits.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

PT

[burmafriday]

Hi PT

 

Thanks for getting back - yes they hv asked for my financial statement - which i hv submitted by email but the scanned doc was not legible for them. I think thats the reason. Hard copy had been forwarded.

 

They have stated that they would attach to what ever benefit i get and they are also seeking commital hearing.

 

sorry i ommitted this infor in my earlier posting.

 

basically they really do have it "in" for me. I guess i caused a lot of problems for them having written to the various people CEO, Councillors etc. and threathening them with a writ for global levy.

 

thats why i was asking if i can get some guidance on how to negotiate with them now. Many thanks/BF

[ploddertom]

Hi PT

 

Thanks for getting back - yes they hv asked for my financial statement - which i hv submitted by email but the scanned doc was not legible for them. I think thats the reason. Hard copy had been forwarded.

 

They have stated that they would attach to what ever benefit i get and they are also seeking commital hearing.

 

sorry i ommitted this infor in my earlier posting.

 

basically they really do have it "in" for me. I guess i caused a lot of problems for them having written to the various people CEO, Councillors etc. and threathening them with a writ for global levy.

 

thats why i was asking if i can get some guidance on how to negotiate with them now. Many thanks/BF

 

In reality there is not a lot they can do. Their Bailiffs cocked it all up from day one but would not admit it, the Council themselves need further training as of their own admission they believed the Bailiff.

 

It would probably be pointless at this stage going for a Committal Hearing if you are on Benefits particularly as they have an Attachments to Benefits - it would make them look rather silly if the Magistrate then lowers payment to £1 a week - which could happen. It would only be worth their while going for a Charging Order if they then make that an Order of Sale. Given their history the Council could become a laughing stock by throwing Ratepayers money at procedures they have no chance of winning.

 

I would wait and see what they come up with and then respond accordingly - let them make the running for now.

 

PT

[burmafriday]

Hi PT -

many thanks. I'll wait for a couple of days, go through their letter again and then may be ask them for an explanation/clarification.

 

warm regards/BF

[RaeUK]

Hi BF, just caught up with your thread.

Well, you're getting somewhere.

Don't even give credance to the 'threat' of committal. This is reserved for the VERY few who wilfully refuse to pay council tax. You can prove throughout this lengthy farce that, rather than refusing to pay, you were trying to negotiate the bailiffs and the councils incompetence and find a way to make sustainable and affordable payments.

Best wishes

Rae

[burmafriday]

Hi Rae

Its great to see you. I thought you've done a runner like I was planning!!

Thanks for yr message - i know i am getting there, but Its been seroiusly demoralising and worrying to say the least.

 

But unfortunately - i "cracked" in the last week in june - and was quite sick. I went to see the doctor on 30 June - he took me off work and gave me a sick note for 3 months and some happy pills.

 

i got a letter from the council, i read it just to see the content but i am not really going to do anything about it till tomorrow evening then plan a reply - may be scan it for you to see and comment if you do not mind as it takes me time to do things at the moment.

 

I guess I am now at settlement negotiations with the council. I have applied for council tax reduction and carer of a disabled person discount. i have also applied for Employment Support Allowance. but in the interim, whilst my applications are being considered, i intend to make some payments to the Council (some money had trickled in to my company.)

 

I've also been onto CCCS (consumer credit counselling service) and they've given me some advice.

 

So this is a bit of a problem - its a pretty unfortunate time to crack but

there u go.

 

all the best/BF