@npowerhelp NPower Overcharging with Metric Meters

[gaz245]

I read a post regarding NPower taking the wrong readings with new metric meters and taking the readings in Ft.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/utilities-gas-electricity-water/225759-n-power-overcharging-4-a-2.html#post2814982

 

I think this may be the same problem my mam has had.

 

She was supplied by NPower from 17 Dec '07 until 13 Jan '09 and NPower installed a new meter.

 

It was after the fitting of the new meter that she noticed she was getting high bills, and complained on numerous occasions to NPower.

Eventually, she got that stressed with it and switched suppliers.

 

She has now calculated her yearly bill with her new supplier and it amounts to £198.98, now compare this to her yearly bill from NPower which was £739.03, a big difference.

 

The question is do I now complain to NPower and try to find out if it was due to the Imperial (ft3) rather than metres (m3) problem?? or do I leave this and ask for a Subject access request?

 

Note: She has copies of all her bills for those dates mentioned.

[pelham9]

You could be right but there are other explanations. If the readings from an old cubic foot metre are charged as if the readings were in cubic metres then the bill is likely to be about 34 times higher than it should be.

 

All new meters fitted record in cubic metres. It is very unusual to find that they are inaccurate.

 

You have therefore three periods to consider.

 

a) the period with the new supplier. You can be sure that the cubic foot/cubic metre problem was not there and the biils are likely to be correct.

 

b) a period with NPower after the new meter was fitted. This is just the same as a) and the bills are likely to be correct.

 

c) a period when the reads were from the old meter. If this meter recorded in cubic feet then she could have been charged a very high amount for that period. The bills would have been so high that she would have surely noticed??

 

To determine whether there is a cibic foot /cubic meter prroblem the comparison you need to make is between b) and c)

 

Sometimes the meter changer leaves the old meter with the customer. If that happened and she has not thrown it away you could check the old meter -almost too easy!!

 

Your mother however changed suppliers because the bills from NPower were high after the new meter was fitted. This suggests that NPower did not trust the old meter which they thought could be reading low and so not charging enough for period c). Did they give any reason for the meter change?

 

Period a) could be much lower than period b) simply because the changeover reading was estimated (was it an actual read?) and was set at a high level. This would have the effect of inflating NPower's charge and decreasing the new supplier's charge.

 

It would be instructive to people on this board if you could give us the date, meter readings and charge for each bill your mother received from both suppliers to date during her occupancy You should indicate whether the meter reads were estimated/self reads/utility reads. It would be helpful to know the date of the meter change and the date of the supplier change. Was there any attempt in period b) to recover sums which were undercharged in period c) because of a defective under-reading meter?

[gaz245]

Thanks for that pelham9, I will print this info and let my mam read it and hopefully she will understand what information is needed.

I will get back to you tomorrow night.

[gaz245]

Not so sure if this can be sorted now pelham9, just been to my mam's to confirm the date NPower changed the meter, it now looks as though the meter was changed before she went over to NPower. (also, she mentioned that NPower kept sending her Quantum cards when she was paying by direct debit, if that helps in any way!! )

 

I've asked her to work out how many units she has used over the year with NPower and compare it with Scottish Power's yearly bill, but she has said one is worked out in units and the other is worked out in KWh, so not sure if this can be calculated?

 

She has also mentioned that she did have a discrepancy with her first bill when she changed over to Scottish Power, and they mentioned she was being charged against a Quantum Meter? Well confused now:confused:

 

The thing is Scottish Power apologised and refunded my mam some money. I have asked her to phone Scottish Power to confirm what the problem was, so maybe watch this space for further information.

 

If your not confused, I certainly am. :-|

[pelham9]

1 unit = 1 KWH - they are the same.

[gaz245]

1 unit = 1 KWH - they are the same.

 

 

Right, you learn something everyday, thanks pelham9, I'll check and see what the usage was for both companies for the year then, if that will help?

[gaz245]

Right, here's hoping that someone will understand what my mam has written lol.

 

Please ignore my first post, here is the revised version.

 

'...On the 14th Oct 2005 I moved into this address and was using a card meter with British Gas.

 

In November I changed to Powergen and they changed my card meter to a standard meter so I could start paying by direct debit on the 20th Dec 2005, this is when I noticed the bills were getting high.

 

Note: My card meter number was LO353291793M.

 

I was with Powergen until Sept 2007 and although my new meter number was G4W00154050501 my gas statements were still showing the old card meter number.

 

Therefore, because of the increasing costs of my gas I decided to change over to NPower in Sept 2007, this was another mistake as my bills got even higher.

 

I then decided to change again in Jan 2009 to Scottish Power and initially had the same problems with high bills. I complained to Scottish Power, who apologised and agreed to sort everything out, which thankfully, although I don't have a clue what they did, they have now done and my bills are now considerably lower...'

 

Please bear in mind I am also trying to decipher this information as I am posting this on behalf of my mam. If anyone can make any sense of anything improper, please feel free to let me know...

 

I have asked my mam to sort out the gas bills and will upload them as soon as possible.

[davehsug]

Pelham, 1 unit does not equal 1 kwh on a gas meter if you're referring to the meter read. On a metric meter 1 unit on the reading is about 11 kwh & about 30 on a metric meter.

gaz245, do you have bills? It would be helpful if you could post up the meter serial number, it should be pretty easy from that to tell if it's metric or imperial.

[mattlamb]

Sounds as if both Eon and NPower were billing your mum based upon the wrong meter details after the prepayment meter was taken out. I would guess they did not update the meter details when the meter was changed meaning the bills were all garbage (probably showing estimated readings all the time even if a meter-man came out to read the meter).

I don't think this is a problem of imperial and metric meters, All prepayment meters are metric and all new meters fitted are metric too.

[Rah25]

Gaz

 

If the readings are four digits then it is Metric metre and 5 digits for an Imperial. (Sorry just double checked this and it's wrong Imperial can also be 4 digits, my appologies. Best way to check is on the metre if it says ft3 then it's imperial and m3 it's metric.)She could have either been overcharged for an imperial metre as you suggest or just been took the Michael out of as they tried with me (see below).

 

If you could upload the bills so I can see metre readings/dates/rates/Calorific.Value etc on each of the bills then it will give me a better understanding of if your mum was overcharged.

 

 

I've had nothing but problems with N-power since I joined them in June 2008 to leaving them - just going through this process at the minute.

 

One of my biggest disputes (had numerous over different things) was last Sept when I got a summer gas bill (April - Sept) for £450 when the only thing using gas during this time was the stove. We checked the metre and realised they'd billed us for an extra 1000units. We got this ammended and they sent us a new bill with correct reading for £50 less. So I took it upon myself to work out the bill, and it actualy came to £27 so rang them to tell THEM how it was worked out (it shut a rather smug customer service rep up who was insisting the bill was correct as it was). Within a week I had the correct bill on my doormat.

 

If your mum as been overcharged and as all the bills then I can't see a reason why she wouldn't get this back. The utility companies have to keep her account information on file for so many years (I think it's 6) under the money laundering rules.

 

Always work out the bills yourself as ALL utility companies are know for adding £10 - £100's on bills!!

Edited April 8, 2010 by Rah25

[dx100uk]

rah i might pick you brains soon, scottish power have done the same to me. - sorry for butting in - dx

[Rah25]

DX that's not a problem, be glad to assist.

[gaz245]

Pelham, 1 unit does not equal 1 kwh on a gas meter if you're referring to the meter read. On a metric meter 1 unit on the reading is about 11 kwh & about 30 on a metric meter.

gaz245, do you have bills? It would be helpful if you could post up the meter serial number, it should be pretty easy from that to tell if it's metric or imperial.

 

Sorry, haven't been back guys, bloody new graphics card caused havoc with my pc, so have put old one back in.

 

I have posted the serial numbers that my mam has available Dave, will hopefully be able to upload all the bills next week.

[davehsug]

Hi gaz, sorry, I missed that post. Your current meter the one begining G4W is definitely a metric credit meter. If you have been receivng bills showing it as imperial or prepay, they are wrong.

Just to add to RAH25, you have it the wrong way round. A 5 dial meter is metric & a 4 dial imperial. Of course, just because your read only has 4 digits doesn't make it imperial, it might not have reached 10,000!

[gaz245]

Hi gaz, sorry, I missed that post. Your current meter the one begining G4W is definitely a metric credit meter. If you have been receivng bills showing it as imperial or prepay, they are wrong.

Just to add to RAH25, you have it the wrong way round. A 5 dial meter is metric & a 4 dial imperial. Of course, just because your read only has 4 digits doesn't make it imperial, it might not have reached 10,000!

 

Can I just confirm then Dave, my mam states...

 

'...Note: My card meter number was LO353291793M.

 

I was with Powergen until Sept 2007 and although my new meter number was G4W00154050501 my gas statements were still showing the old card meter number...'

 

Does this mean Powergen have made a mistake then?

[mattlamb]

Yeah Gaz, as I stated above Powergen billed your mum based upon the wrong meter being in her home (the old meter). The bills would therefore have been estimated (even if the bills state the meters were read - this is not unknown!) and are almost certainly totally wrong

[gaz245]

Yeah Gaz, as I stated above Powergen billed your mum based upon the wrong meter being in her home (the old meter). The bills would therefore have been estimated (even if the bills state the meters were read - this is not unknown!) and are almost certainly totally wrong

 

 

Cheers matt, don't know how I missed your post.

What would be the best course of action for my mam then with regards to proving this?

[mattlamb]

On the new gas meter, there shoudl be a sticker stating what reading the old Quantum meter was taken out on (and the date it happened) together with the reading on the new meter when it was fitted (normally 00000 or 00001).

Looks like the problem is with both NPower and Eon.

First of all I think you need to make NPower and Eon aware of the issue, giving them the relevant issues so they shouldn;t then be able to fob you off. . It would be best to do this in writing (or by phone with a letter as well, so that you have got proof of the action you have taken).

If they don't deal with the issue (or at least let you know what they are doing) within, say 2 weeks, you should send them another letter with COMPLAINT written at the top. If they don't reply within eight weeks oryalternatively if thet send out a deadlock letter, you can contact the Energy Ombudsman for assistance. They can then hopefully take this problem on for you and get recompense for your mother.

Their contact details are:

 

Energy Ombudsman

PO Box 966

Warrington

WA4 9DF

tel: 0845 055 0760 or 01925 530263

email: [email protected]

website: www.energy-ombudsman.org.uk

Edited April 14, 2010 by mattlamb

[gaz245]

Here goes guys, my mam has done her best to sort out what bills she thinks are relevant. I can't figure out what to look for, but I'm sure somebody on here will be able to spot any discrepancies.

 

[dx100uk]

you cant link pics like that

either use photobucket

or post it as an attachment after hitting the advanced buttom below a new msg box then hit manage attachemnt boc further down.

 

dx

[gaz245]

Will have to redo the images, they are not readable when uploaded

Edited April 14, 2010 by gaz245
Unreadable, will have to redo them

[dx100uk]

convert them to pdf via a onr of the many websites

then add them as an att

 

dx

[gaz245]

convert them to pdf via a onr of the many websites

then add them as an att

 

dx

 

Thanks dx, one step ahead of ya lol, just used PDF Editor.

IMG.pdf

Edited April 19, 2010 by gaz245
edited pdf

[dx100uk]

doh!

left the a/c number on!

 

dx

[gaz245]

doh!

left the a/c number on!

 

dx

 

 

Sh*t, I knew I'd miss something, just removed it dx.

Is that the number on the bank giro ?

Edited April 18, 2010 by gaz245