Tax Credit Overpayment

[lynzfa]

i have until the 21st december to enter a defence or admit the amount owed.I have asked the tax credits for a list of when i have made calls to them and they said they cannot give me that informatuion

[lynzfa]

am i supposed to disput the claim or admit it,i have no idea what to do

[dori2o]

i have until the 21st december to enter a defence or admit the amount owed.I have asked the tax credits for a list of when i have made calls to them and they said they cannot give me that informatuion

 

Yes you can have this information, however, you will have to request it via a Data Protection Act Subject Access Request.

 

The information held on the tax credits record is your data, therefore under the data protection act, you are entitled to see it. The Revenue however do have a right to charge the standard £10 fee for providing this information.

 

Contact them and advise that you will be sending this request as you need the information as evidence to back up your claim, and ask them to delay the deadline until you have it.

[demon_x_slash]

Make sure to request all data, but to be specific about what you really need for this, so: DPA entitles me to every piece of information you have on me, including telephone call notes, call records, calculations made based on given circumstances... they may 'forget' to include if you don't ask specifically.

 

By sending a SAR and disputing the amount, doesn't that put the account into dispute anyway, negating court action? Or am I forgetting that this is THE GOVERNMENT we're talking about, and the normal laws of physics do not apply..?

[graham1968]

Dear all,

To keep a long story very short...

We received an overpayment in 2003, and the tax office paid us compensation for hassle via our MP, and they admitted it was their fault (they missed a zero from my pay when transposing the info to their systems. The amount we received each month exactly matched our daughters nursery fees, and as we didnt receive a benefit calc for 10 mths we thought the nursery fees would have formed part of the calc.

Now we're being chased for paying back the overpayment and they are refusing to waive it, ignoring the fact they have admitted it was their fault (I have the letters from their sneior manager to our MP!) and having already paid us compensation for the hassle caused, the phone calls made, the letters written to get a benefit calc.

 

I've tried talking to the 'helpline', but they tell me they can't speak to the tax credit people either, so they've sent another complaint form out for me to fill in....circles anyone?

It's difficult to know where to take this one next, as we seem to have exhausted the process, and we can't get them to understand they have already admitted its their error and we couldnt have known about it. How can they effectively go back and reinterpret a decision they made in 2003?

 

do I wait until they take me to court and then show the judge the evidence? It'll surely be thrown out?

[cheddar]

I never had a problem with Tax Credits until this financial year, we had a few changes in circumstances and always told them immediately of a change and our award changed accordingly, but the problem i noticed was when we had a change in june we didn't get an award notice showing new payments based on info given to them, since them our circs have changed many times and each time we have NEVER had a new award notice, I don't have a clue what they are basing my claim on, who is included on my claim. Everytime i tell them this they say there is an error on your claim and it cannot print out an award notice!!!

 

They often ask me when i ring up if i am working, i haven't worked since feb 2005, they have me and my husband working at the same place at the same time, then we get a letter asking if my husband is still working for a company he stopped working for 3 days into the new financial year!!

 

The system is crazy and I really do feel ever so sorry for anyone that has problems with them and anyone who works on their helpline, the abuse they must get doesn't bear thinking about and they aren't the ones makes the problems.

 

I am not sure where to turn right now because with our latest change in circs our award is zero and this is having an effect on our income...think i might get my MP involved.

[jcasey2408]

cheddar i am the same i nearly lost my claim for housing and council tax benefit because of '' the error on the system'' and them being unable to produce an award notice 17 phonecalls and 4 months later i still haven't received a printd but luckily the housing benefit people are aware of the tax credits computer failure.

 

My other problem now is that back when the system first started and the chaos involed we were left for 5 weeks without payment so got emergency payments from the inland revenue office. Last year they sent me a letter asking for the payments to be paid back as my award wasn't adjusted at the time to compensate for these payments. I have since split from the childs father and had no idea where he was and didn't want him to know where i was either. I offered to pay half the money as at the time i was a stay at home mum but we were still both equaly responsible for the payments so both equally responsible for paying it back. They refused this. And i have spent months trying to get it sorted. They stated that since i no longer recieve tax credits ( I'VE ALWAYS CLAIMED TAX CREDITS?) they are unable to claim it back through any current award.

 

Then this morning out of the blue i have recieved county court papers as they are taking me and my ex to court to reclaim to overpayment.

 

Now i'm lost as to what to do.

 

My first problem is that both mine and my ex's addresses are on the court papers which has really annoyed me as i have tried really hard to keep my location from him. But now he has my full address. A complete breach of my privacy.

 

I dont have any award notices as they were lost in transit when we moved so i can't argue if the payment is right or not also as i wasn't working and my ex was. i am unable to find out how much he earned to check if the figures are correct or not. I did ring and tell them of all changes and when it got to the end of the year and they wanted final figures i explained to them that i was unable to provide them as we were no longer together and they would have to find him and ask him themselves.

 

So does anyone one know where i stand and what i should do it's not a huge amount of money £400 but it's the principle of the situation that is getting to me more.

[meagain]

I offered to pay half the money as at the time i was a stay at home mum but we were still both equaly responsible for the payments so both equally responsible for paying it back.

 

Sadly this isn't the case. You are not each responsible for half, the two of you share responsibility for the whole lot. For a better explanation, search around for "joint and several liability", but the upshot is that they can ask you for the whole lot, and how you settle the matter with your ex is your problem (note that this is standard practice in any contract).

 

They stated that since i no longer recieve tax credits ( I'VE ALWAYS CLAIMED TAX CREDITS?) they are unable to claim it back through any current award.

 

If your current award is nil, or no more payments are due between now and April, they have nothing to deduct it from. Because of the joint and several liability, they also cannot offset overpayments on joint awards against later sole awards.

 

What is the deadline for return of the court papers? Ideally, you should have received advance notice of this (usually, but not always, headed "Letter Before Action"), giving you something like 7-14 days before going to court. If you didn't, you may be able to use this against them, but if it has been dragging on for months, you might not.

 

I dont have any award notices as they were lost in transit when we moved so i can't argue if the payment is right or not also as i wasn't working and my ex was. i am unable to find out how much he earned to check if the figures are correct or not.

 

That may be a problem. Ask them for an up-to-date "award notice" and a "calculation notice", and you may need to issue a DPA Subject Access Request (when I worked for them, the Revenue did not make a charge for this, but to reduce delays the letter must go to Benton Park View - I can give more details if this is the case). Of course, if your papers are lost, the problem in the meantime will be proving that you could have had good reason to believe the payments were correct. If your emergency payments were not noted on an early award notice, they could argue that you should have noticed this.

[sinking_fast]

just been over to tax credit overpayment site, which i found quite helpful, even though i've got 3 overpayments i'm fighting and one of them is at the adjudicators appeal, there is still info i didn't know about, this is defo a good place to go to see the appeal process, as the TC office aren't very helpful (no disrespect to any TC workers meant) with the appeal process i was told in my first appeal letter "you have no more right to appeal" when i did, so don't be fobbed off, find out your rights, and fight for what you believe in

[traceyrmj]

weeeel, they over paid me over a grand and then told me that they would take it back by not paying me again untill they had clawed back the money, unfortunatly for them i had phone records of every call i made ( one a day for weeks telling them i was not entitled to the money) copies of letters sent recorded delivery telling them i had not been entitled to the money and even a solicitors letter saying the same. i complained that they would effectivly be taking my cash away for 4 years. yup 4 years! they said the rule must stand as i knew i was not entitled and shouldnt have spent it. i pointed out that it went into my moneypit of an overdraft and got swallowed up before i even knew it was there.

they stood their ground and april rolls around again and the system reset to last years stats and they started paying me ooodles of cash again :? i contacted them again in a deluge of calls and letters and finally had to close the account they were paying into so they couldnt pay into it any longer, they sent me cheques that i returned to them. keeping copies.

 

finally i told them that as they had made the mistake and i was told by one member of their staff that i wouldnt have to pay it back i wouldnt pay it back, i could prove i had taken extraordinary steps to stop them overpaying me and if i had the money id pay it back but i was told i didnt have to. 8 months and a hearing ( not court, mediation type thing) later they aggreed in writing to pay back all the money they had clawed back off us and in future to pay us as normal. now i am wise to it i have them paid into a seperate acount and only use what i know we are entitled to have and any small discrepancies will be glaringly obvious.

[Ros2710]

Hi there

Well I used to work for this mob (IR) for 25 years until October when I finally escaped. I have seen tax credits through from begining.

I was in the Tax Enquiry Centre and you wouldn't believe the problems Regarding overpayments - the most important thing to do is check the info they have on you is right and that any amendments they have done are correct. Its amazing how many errors there are.

The call centres are often staffed by people who dont stay in the job long and answer queries reading off information sites on the computer.

If you feel you aren't getting the info you need on the phone, ask to speak to a supervisor . Be firm but patient - if you lose your rag they are entiled to put the phone down.

Appeals - you must put in your reason why you believe the overpayment is incorrect. If you have evidence like letters, or dates of phone calls these are helpful. You must ask for a form to appal against the overpayment which will be sent to you with an exlanation booklet

 

The bottom line is if you received the money and you weren't entitled to it, you will have to pay it back

 

TIP - visit your local Tax Office - they may be able to help

[hannah8686]

Hiya, i sent off my appeal a couple of weeks ago. today i recieved courts papers. the amount is for nearly 4 grand so no chance of paying it back.

 

I havent even had correspondance from the tax ofice for about 6 months and couldnt get hold of the 'collections department' ever to talk to them about it.

 

if anyone had a direct number for the overpayments team/ collections department that would help as i am asking my MP to ask them to cancel the proceedings until the appeals proceedure has been completed.

 

please help!!!!!!!!!

[meagain]

There was a direct number for overpayments queries on anything referring to overpayments when I was there, I'm trying to look it up right now. It might have been in the manual (which HMRC publish on their website), but it might well have been contained in the "pink text" (anyone in the Revenue will know what I mean).

[meagain]

No guarantees, but you can try 0845 302 1429. Spotted this number somewhere, and it rings a bell from when I was handling controlled-issue TC607s (statement of account).

[Ros2710]

Just another thing about overpayments - if they are at fault you've got a good reason to appeal - even better if yu've got evidence.

 

Basically, be persistent and dilligent - keep everything they send and keep a log of phone calls.

 

Remember if you had too much money and Tax Office were unaware of change of circumstances because you didn't tell them, there are no grounds for appeal and you will probably have to pay it back

[sinking_fast]

Hiya, i sent off my appeal a couple of weeks ago. today i recieved courts papers. the amount is for nearly 4 grand so no chance of paying it back.

 

I havent even had correspondance from the tax ofice for about 6 months and couldnt get hold of the 'collections department' ever to talk to them about it.

 

if anyone had a direct number for the overpayments team/ collections department that would help as i am asking my MP to ask them to cancel the proceedings until the appeals proceedure has been completed.

 

please help!!!!!!!!!

 

was that your first appeal?? have you had a letter telling you that they intend to take you to court? if they have sent a letter saying they are taking court action there is a phone number on there, because they have to offer you the right to offer them payments, or to appeal, plus if you have an appeal in, they can't do anything until you hear if the appeal is for or againist (this must be in writing) i have been appealing againist my 03 overpayment since 04 and it is only just at the ajudicates stage now, they sent me a court action letter, i just phoned them explained that it i was appealing sent them a copy of my appeal to the tax office, and they stopped all court action, until i hear about the outcome, sounds to me like they are'nt helping, everyone who thinks they don't owe the money has a right to appeal. please let me know how you get on

[Jhawc24]

I apologise if I'm hijacking anyone's thread here, just hoping it's a general thread.

 

My daughter has received a notice to pay an overpayment of just over £3000 from tax credits for year 2003/2004, for when she was with her long since ex. It is in joint names. However, she is struggling finding any correspondence she has kept for this year so have made an SAR request. She always kept in touch with them of any changes. She wrote saying she wished to appeal against the decision and they have written back saying she cannot! She was not aware there was an overpayment made, so why can't she appeal? Is that right can they refuse to allow her to appeal?

 

Any advice kindly accepted, Joan.

[sinking_fast]

as far as i know, they can't refuse an appeal, cause she didn't know about the overpayment, when they notified her about the overpayment, there should of been a COP1 (code of practice) booklet, which tells you about appealing if you think the decision is wrong (about the overpayment), I would phone the tax office and ask for a COP1 notifing them that you are going to appeal againist the overpayment, sending a S.A.R is good as well so she has as much info to but into her appeal, the tax office can't say she has no right to appeal unless she was notified of the overpayment ages ago (like 2 years ago) and she hasn't done anything about it, i would also notify the tax office of her ex's address so they can chase him up as well, and if she hasn't got this, then shes got to fight this herself i'm afraid, its sh*t that there's been a joint claim but only 1 person is having to pay the overpayment back, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, but they seem to be, help this helps, you can only but try i'm afraid sorry :?

[Guest xipetotec46]

i have recieved another letter yesterday about my tax credit overpayment which im guessing means i did not win the appeal.they have said i have until the 22nd november to pay the 988 in full or i will be took to court. i dont have that sort of money to pay in full.what can i do.

 

The IR overpaid me by £270, I had residency of my grandson for 4 years, I gradually gave back one day at a time to his mum as reward for keeping off drugs, finally gave back residency and informed the IR same day that I was no longer entitled to Child Tax Credit for my grandson, they carried on paying, then I got a demand for overpayment repayment, needless to say I told the IR where to shove it and that I would write in to ask them to revue it, it was turned down and cannot appeal as their rules are is that there is no right of appeal, Had a letter from them informing me I had until the 12th December 2006 to pay or they will take me to court, I phoned them to say don't keep sending threatening letters, just take me to court, I am awaiting a court date, my guess is that they won't pursue it, for such a pittance, but I am armed with lots of info about overpayments, if they do, especially stuff that has been said in parliament by the Paymaster General and the Parliamentary Ombudsman and MP's. Since tax credits were introduced more than £2 billion each year was overpaid, total to date £4.2 Billion to date it has cost £8.2 billion to recover the overpayments, if the IR had not pursued overpayments from the start the Treasury would have £4 billion extra still in their kitty, ironic dont you think that it cost twice as much to claim the overpayments back in administrative costs, however to date nothing from the IR yet but I will have my day in court, anyway you can't get blood out of a stone.

Barry

[Ros2710]

Hi Barry

 

Trouble with Tax Credits is that when you ring up you only ever speak to someone at a call centre - you don't speak directly to the Tax Credit Office.

Call Centre then tell Tax Credit Office to amend your records and often payments are still being made while records are being amended.

 

Although this doesn't normaly take long, If your next payment had already been sent for payment to the bank, even if bank is notified imediately, they cannot usually recall payments going through the bank system.

 

This often results in payments being received after the date of cancellation/change which are wrong. Remember also that payments of Tax Credits are made in advance.

 

So, if you cancelled say on 2nd February, and your normal tax credit payment was due on 5th February for that month, you would still probably get that payment. The payments are in advance so you have received a months payment for which you are not entitled.

The Tax Credit Office will say you had money you weren't entiled to, and either should have given it back at the time or should give it back now.

 

Do you have any evidence that there was any error/fault by Tax Credit Office?

 

Ros

[sinking_fast]

The IR overpaid me by £270, my guess is that they won't pursue it, for such a pittance

 

my auntie had an overpayment of £88 and they took her to court so i wouldn't think that cause its a small amount they won't take you to court.

 

I got a demand for overpayment repayment, needless to say I told the IR where to shove it and that I would write in to ask them to revue it, it was turned down and cannot appeal as their rules are is that there is no right of appeal,

 

ask them for a COP1 (code of practise booklet) has all your appeals and who to appeal to in there, i think your mistake was telling them " i would write in to ask them to review it" don't tell them what your going to do cause they're going to say you have no right to appeal, they just want there money and can't be bothered going through all the appeals, i had it written in black and white that i didn't have any more rights to appeal, which wasn't true and i am now still appealing overpayment from 03.

 

but I am armed with lots of info about overpayments, if they do, especially stuff that has been said in parliament by the Paymaster General and the Parliamentary Ombudsman and MP's. Since tax credits were introduced more than £2 billion each year was overpaid, total to date £4.2 Billion to date it has cost £8.2 billion to recover the overpayments, if the IR had not pursued overpayments from the start the Treasury would have £4 billion extra still in their kitty, ironic dont you think that it cost twice as much to claim the overpayments back in administrative costs, however to date nothing from the IR yet but I will have my day in court, anyway you can't get blood out of a stone.

 

if it goes to court, unless like ros says and you have evidence that the tax office is in the wrong, you will have to pay court costs as well, and as for blood out of stone, they will stop any tax credits your entitled to, and if you don't get tax credits they'll take for your earnings, and if you don't work they can take money from any benefits (apart from child benefit i think) so they will get money from you, becaue of the amount i'd just offer them money per week, i know its not right but, for £270 i just don't think its worth it unless you can prove the overpayment is there fault, if you can good luck and keep us updated with what happens

[Guest xipetotec46]

Hi Barry

 

Do you have any evidence that there was any error/fault by Tax Credit Office?

 

Ros

 

Hi Ros No evidence and it is only recently I found it was only one payment involved, if the tax office had said look we paid you because we couldn't stop the payment and we know you told us about your grandson so can we have our money back please, I would have wrote them a cheque straight away, but they have been like the Gestapo over this and it is like a red rag to a bull to me, I got my MP involved also plus the stress my wife was having because of it, if I lose which I expect to, I will try to pay them back at a £1 a week, but honestly I don't think it will get that far.

Will pm when I have more news.

Barry

[Guest xipetotec46]

i know its not right but, for £270 i just don't think its worth it unless you can prove the overpayment is there fault, if you can good luck and keep us updated with what happens

 

Hi

How did your Aunt fare over the £88 did she have to pay it back or did she win, the only evidence I have is the record of the phone call I made to them at 2.15 on 16th November 2004 about not being entitled to residency after that date and time, they confirm that it is on the Computer, I have now asked for transcripts of the conversations I have made to the IR regarding this overpayment, so I may take the transcripts to court if it does go there.

Barry

[sinking_fast]

she lost and is currently paying it back at £2 a month, but have just spoke to her and she didn't actually pay court costs as she wasn't prepared to go to court over £88 and have over £100 in court costs wacked on as well, she said its not because she wasn't in the right its just that she knew she wouldn't win againist them she had the backing of our local MP as well, so its totally up to you, but i do know that aas long as you can offer them 50p or more a week they have to take it, they might be arsey and ask for an incoming outgoing sheet if they think you can pay more, but otherwise theres not a lot else they can do, if your agreeing to pay something, i'd defo ring and request a COP1 though what have you got to lose?? let us know how your getting on though

[Ros2710]

Hi Barry,

Well its up to you if you want to pursue it like you do, but as others have said you will have to pay costs if you lose, and looks like you might as there seem to be no grounds for appeal in your case.

 

I agree they are a faceless and uncaring lot. (I used to work for the Tax Enquiry Centre and saw lots of people re overpayments)

 

What you can do is ask for a time to pay agreement and offer to pay so much a week.

 

Ros