Halifax And Blair Oliver Scott

[sunflower99]

Hi Gaz

One of the ts and cs comes from Bank of Scotland plc and the other one states Halifax PLC

[Gazza112]

Hi Gaz

One of the ts and cs comes from Bank of Scotland plc and the other one states Halifax PLC

 

 

Sunflower i knew it, i knew it they don't know what there right are is doing from there left :eek:.

 

On mine they decided to change the card from a visa card to a Mastercard with different numbers on the account.

I think i posted without looking the made up T & C's with the agreement, the agreement you'll find on my thread had no Sbuscribed terms on it.

 

Gaz

[gecouger]

HI All,

 

I contacted Halifax middle of last year regarding my credit card, i was responsible and told them about my difficulties, they were very helpfull, they arranged a payment plan and i thought that was that, what they didnt tell me was that they would be acruing the difference between my agreed payment and the minimum payment over the following 6 months then send me a default notice out of the blue for the whole amount right before Christmas, nice!! this has reduced my credit file to ashes, as they logged every payment i made as per their instructions as late or missed!!!!

 

After many letters and complaints to a multitude of PO boxes i have now been informed Blair Oliver & Scott have taken over the account.

 

I was however informed by Halifax that this would be better for me as i would no longer be charged interest or charges on this account, and that they would have to honour any agreement made by the Halifax.

 

So i recieved my first threatening letter from them demanding the whole balance in one payment, right, ok, so ive written to them and Halifax asking them to get together and acknowledge my agreed payment plan.

 

Mean while following this behaviour from the Halifax i have refered the matter to the FSA for not informing me of their intentions to destroy my credit history, Halifax really are a say one thing do another company, i now wont entertain phone calls as they lie, as ive caught them out several times already.

 

The way i look at it is like this, its business, they try to make it personal so you feel guilt, DONT!!, i just keep telling myself how much these banks have had from the public purse following their total failures, do you think the Goverment are sending doorstep collectors to the head office of Halifax demanding 80 billion quid back in one payment, i dont think so, so why should we.

 

Im finding the FSA helpfull but very slow, won a case against Wescott / Barclays last month but took 8 months, the main point of that case was they threatened to come to my home where i have 2 young children, the FSA didnt like that at all!!!

[Dotty50]

Hi Gecouger,

 

Welcome to the Halifax fan club!

 

Your story is almost a mirror image of mine but I haven't put a complaint in to any official body............yet.

[gecouger]

HI, You should the Banks dont like it at all, and it costs them as they have to pay for the investigation if they want to be in the finance business, its the law. Write to the FSA and enclose copies of letters details of threatening behaviour harrasment etc.......its worth getting it logged, Barclays change in attitude was amazing, talk about back peddle!!!! i enjoyed cashing their cheque!

[sunflower99]

Hi gecouger

Yes Halifax did that to me,One minute they sent me reasonable lettter saying they would accept token payments and then next few days i would get a few nasty threatogram threatening to terminate me !

[sunflower99]

I suppose the above is my official account been terminated letter! and i have now been officially terminated!

[sunflower99]

It is so silly though !Now they going to freeze interest and charges! when they migh have got better coperation if they offered to do this before person went into a major dispute! I am sure they would have got a lot more money back and less hassle from people putting accounts in dispute if they had done this earlier and given people some hope that their debt would gradually go down and less like our money going down a big black void!

[Bigdebtor]

I know we ALL KNOW Blair Orrible & Snott are actually HBOS - but I don't think they ever admit it. Well - guess what I got in response to my SAR to HBOS ? - Yes - screen logs of all dealings with Blair Orrible too!

 

Actually I was put on to them by HBOS quite a long time ago and found them quite ready to freeze interest and agree to what the CCCS had suggested. It made me think perhaps they didn't have an enforceable CCA at all!

 

In my SAR response package (which cost them around £12 in postage - 4 massive envelopes representing a small forest ) there is only 1 credit card agreement - dated December 1987 - and for a different visa account number. The SAR info gives me card statements dating back to 1993 which show they changed my visa card number quite a few times over the years - but I don't believe I was ever asked to sign new card agreements.

 

Has anyone else succeeded in getting HBOS debts written off in similar circumstances?

 

BD

[Dotty50]

It is so silly though !Now they going to freeze interest and charges! when they migh have got better coperation if they offered to do this before person went into a major dispute! I am sure they would have got a lot more money back and less hassle from people putting accounts in dispute if they had done this earlier and given people some hope that their debt would gradually go down and less like our money going down a big black void!

 

I couldn't agree more Sunflower and I can remember one of the first chats I had with them and they said I should have contacted them earlier to resolve things but here I am 11 months on and nowhere with them!

 

I hate this situation but the more rubbish they send, the more determined I am to get things done on my terms and conditions, it really isn't that difficult as far as I am concerned and the sooner these companies realise, the sooner they will get people to pay!

[reallymadwoman]

As I've said from the outset with creditors - reasonable behaviour from them is far more likely to get a positive response from me. Had BOS/Blair been reasonable, they would have been paid in full without me ever knowing I could dispute anything, but since they drove me to CAG out of desperation I do now know what they can and can't do and they ain't getting another penny unless the court tells me to pay them.

[pinklover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunflower99

 

 

Sunflower99, I received the exact same letter..almost exact same wording for my CCA request. The only difference is that mine got my signature on it. But without theirs..do they need to sign it to make it valid?

 

They've just sent me a default notice asking for arrears payment by 25 March or else they will terminate my account. Just hope they can't locate your signed copy!!

[Bigdebtor]

Pinklover

 

That is only 13 days away from today. What was the date on the DN and was it sent 1st or 2nd class? Did you keep the envelope?

 

BD

[sunflower99]

Hi Dotty and reallymadwoman

Yes they are very strange bank,One minute you think they going to be reasonable and accept token payments and the next they making your life a misery with horrible phone calls and letters,They refuse to freeze interest and charges or even reduce interst until you tell them evey bit of your personal affairs and even when people do that going by peoples experience on cag and they do all the rcommended things like got to a debt counselling agnecy suppply income and expenditure sheets they still default people and threaten them with phone calls and letters!

[sunflower99]

Pinklover

 

That is only 13 days away from today. What was the date on the DN and was it sent 1st or 2nd class? Did you keep the envelope?

 

BD

Hi Pinklover and Bigdebtor

As you say even if they got signed compliant agrements ,There are other ways of fighting them ,Some cagger claim they have had success with faulty DN notices:)And even if they drag you into court you can still make it awkward and more difficult by asking to see origiinal as sometimes these are micro filch copies,Though on the day it also depends on judge and there is a lottery of judges but you can still fight and argue about seeing original under a cpr 31 request and if you get a reallly nice fair judge in the lottery he hopefullly may uphold your right to see original though unfortunatly not always the case and results vary.But at the end of the day a reasonable judge should take everything into consideration and only order people to pay what they can reasonably afford and appeals can be put in etc and if you act as a lip you get help from cag and also many people get help from legal aid no win no fee solicitors Unfortunatly none of us can see into a crystal ball to see what going to happen in future and what sort of juge you get if legal action taken,but at least you know whatever happens there are always lovely caggers to advise and help us and banks are taking great a big risk themselves when they initiate legal action and know it!

Edited March 13, 2010 by sunflower99

[Gazza112]

Hi Sunflower

 

I have a little theory and it's only that, as i may be barking up the wrong tree:D. The reason i see why the creditors don't sign the agreement, is by doing so there accepting the consumer credit act guidelines. Allthough they ask you to sign in the box. Where it says something like we obiede by the regulated consumer act 1974. As i said it only a theory, because it does seem funny that about 9/10 agreement never get signed by the creditor.

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi Gaz and pinklover!

Oh well Gaz and pinklover if agreement presented to you not signed by crediter it can be argued that it is incorrectly executed at the very least! though i think it can be still enforced by a judge under s65.if it goes to court and made enforceable! by court order,If a crediter signature missing i dont beelieve it can be described as having "fatal unenforceability" as described by solicitors ,so unfortunatly not a full bar to having agreement enforced,Though i suppose it helps if there are other errorrs in agreement and bulds up a picture to court that bank did not go to much trouble to execute agreement proprerly and gives the bank a black mark so to speak, I suppose,Though i can not see how it benefits bankers that much omiting their signature as whether they sign or not they are still govened by consumer credit act and would give them a black mark in court for agreement not being executed properly?

Edited March 13, 2010 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi pinklover

This agreement you referring to in my thread was it a 2007 one or later? .As a law was passed in 2006 that made many agreements in 2007 and all agreements made post 2007 more difficult to dispute as the 2006 consumer credit act unfortuantly abolished the s127 (3) clause of fatal unenforceability if prescribed terms absent etc. .Agreements can still be disputed defended and argued about in court but only on a case by case basis,The debtor can no longer rely on127(3) argument of fatal unenforceability. I think the banks put pressure on goverment to abolish 127(3) sadly.However the 2006 law was not rectospective so all pre 2007 agreements can still be argued using 127(3) fatal unenforceability clause!

[sunflower99]

Hi Gaz

I am starting to feel like i have just swallowed a legal book today!

[pinklover]

Thanks Sunflower99 for the explanation regarding agreement taken out after 2006, Yes it proves that my guess is right then, as mine was taken out Dec 2007, so will be difficult to argue. The thing is that I fully acknowledge my debts but just like everyone else having a hard time to pay and I just want to make a reduce payment which sadly didn't seem that Halifax want to be bothered with.:-|

 

Has anyone ever write to them to offer reduce payment and freeze interest with success?

 

Re Bigdebtor: Since I'm redirecting my mail from another address, the post mark won't apply..but from what I work out, they have left it with plenty of time as their letter dated 4 March, which I assume I should have received it at my original address around 6/7th and the default Notice given is 25 March..so can't argue with that I think?!

[citizenB]

Hi Sunflower

 

I have a little theory and it's only that, as i may be barking up the wrong tree:D. The reason i see why the creditors don't sign the agreement, is by doing so there accepting the consumer credit act guidelines. Allthough they ask you to sign in the box. Where it says something like we obiede by the regulated consumer act 1974. As i said it only a theory, because it does seem funny that about 9/10 agreement never get signed by the creditor.

 

Gaz

 

Hi Gaz and pinklover!

Oh well Gaz and pinklover if agreement presented to you not signed by crediter it can be argued that it is incorrectly executed at the very least! though i think it can be still enforced by a judge under s65.if it goes to court and made enforceable! by court order,If a crediter signature missing i dont beelieve it can be described as having "fatal unenforceability" as described by solicitors ,so unfortunatly not a full bar to having agreement enforced,Though i suppose it helps if there are other errorrs in agreement and bulds up a picture to court that bank did not go to much trouble to execute agreement proprerly and gives the bank a black mark so to speak, I suppose,Though i can not see how it benefits bankers that much omiting their signature as whether they sign or not they are still govened by consumer credit act and would give them a black mark in court for agreement not being executed properly?

 

Gazza, in theory they should sign it to make it executed. However, the Judge can just allow them to sign it there and then to make it right.

 

My argument there has always been

 

a) If they only have a copy, how can that be correct. Onlly the original document can be executed

 

b) If it is the original then fine, but... does this mean they have not been able to enjoy their side of the contract for however many years it has remained unsigned and unexecuted. If not, then can I have my money back please:rolleyes:

[sunflower99]

Gazza, in theory they should sign it to make it executed. However, the Judge can just allow them to sign it there and then to make it right.

 

My argument there has always been

 

a) If they only have a copy, how can that be correct. Onlly the original document can be executed

 

b) If it is the original then fine, but... does this mean they have not been able to enjoy their side of the contract for however many years it has remained unsigned and unexecuted. If not, then can I have my money back please:rolleyes:

Good Points CitB:D As yoou say in court only the original should do and it is unfair that in the lottery of courts some some banks can get away with fobbing of a judge and court with a microfilch which can in theory be rearranged to have a layout which was not how the original was presented if you get my drift! LOL;) It goes,entirely against what Francis Bennion intended when he said that if a bank could not be bothered to make sure that the document was drawn up in correct form and executed properly as regards debtors signature and the basic prescribed terms in the correct lay out in the signed four corners of a signed document signeed by the debtor it desreved to be found unenforceable by the courts!

[sunflower99]

I was looking at my council tax booklet yesterday on the page dealing with applications for council tax benefit! and the council states this on the subject of bringing evidence to council to show entitlement to council tax benefit- To guard against fraud ,we require that originals of all supporting documentation are submitted with your application!

So in the council opinion only the orginal will do! So why should it be different for us in a court room dealing with a bank or DCA !

Edited March 14, 2010 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Thanks Sunflower99 for the explanation regarding agreement taken out after 2006, Yes it proves that my guess is right then, as mine was taken out Dec 2007, so will be difficult to argue. The thing is that I fully acknowledge my debts but just like everyone else having a hard time to pay and I just want to make a reduce payment which sadly didn't seem that Halifax want to be bothered with.:-|

 

Has anyone ever write to them to offer reduce payment and freeze interest with success?

 

Re Bigdebtor: Since I'm redirecting my mail from another address, the post mark won't apply..but from what I work out, they have left it with plenty of time as their letter dated 4 March, which I assume I should have received it at my original address around 6/7th and the default Notice given is 25 March..so can't argue with that I think?!

Hi Pinklover

Glad to have been of help! At least by contacting your crediter and making offers of token payments you can afford if they do insist at some stage in dragging you to court at least you can show any DJ you were being reasonable trying to come to an arrangement with crediter and it will look bad and make Halifax look unreasonable if you tell court that they still countinued to harass you and initiate legal action against you even after you attempted to come to ssome settlement with them,Also keep a file with as much evidence you can find and log of any bad behaviour harrasement annoying phone calls etc .As it will all be a help if it goes to court.

Edited March 14, 2010 by sunflower99

[sunflower99]

Hi Pinklover

As i said these banks and pond feeder take a big risk when they initiate legal action and know that they may not get anywhere near as much as they were hoping for .they can not get blood out of a stone!