Can I report bailiff for fraud??

[Bartok]

This thing is dragging on for so long now.

 

Just file the N1 and let nature run its course.

 

Post your facts you want to give in your claim particulars in the legal section of this forum, and someone there will show you how to smarten them up. You are claiming from both the council and bailiff and let the court decide who pays.

 

Its OK to give the bailiffs PO box address. The court will ask them to provide their service address.

[munchkette]

Hello All,

 

Well the saga continues with Goodwillie and Corcoran. I tried complaining to my local councillor and he was completely ineffectual, basically just obtaining copies of the same letters the council sent to me and saying there is nothing he can do and that I should complain to the Local Government Ombudsman and speak to the citizens advice bureau/a solicitor. Complete waste of time.

 

So I have sent a letter to the Ombudsman who are currently investigating my case but they are saying that if the court decided there was no case for the bailiff to answer then there may be nothing they can do as they don't have the power to act once a court has ruled They are looking into this but I am not holding out much hope.

 

I also complained to CIVEA the supposed bailiff regulator/membership association, who are completely useless to put it politely. They basically said that since the bailiff refutes my allegations there is no case to answer, case closed. So there you have it CIVEA will do nothing to keep their members in check, bailiffs are free to assault people on their doorsteps, barge into people's homes and defraud them of their possessions and impose irregular charges as far as CIVEA is concerned. As long as there are no other witnesses to the bailiffs actions CIVEA are happy to turn a blind eye and even if there were witnesses I am sure they would find some reason not to investigate their members, the whole set up is a total SHAM.

 

So I am back to square one. Going to wait for the outcome of the ombudsman investigation and if that is unsatisfactory will file an N1 form against the council and the bailiff. Can I put in that form costs for damage to my home from the bailiff's visit or should I keep it to the overcharged fees?

[Guest Tooth Fairy Wishes]

OMG Munchette!! I am so so very sorry that all these months later you still have no end in sight to this saga.

 

I cant offer you any legal help at all as our circumstances are about different aspects of the law & mine thankfully did not involve Bailiffs (although I now know NOT to leave doors unlocked & never to invite one in)

 

BUT one thing I did think off was when you took this back before the judge the second time did you go get any legal advice on how to further proceed with your request about getting said judgement re-looked at?

 

Good luck

 

Fingers X it all works out for you.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hi Munchkette

 

You deserve a medal for perseverance, I doubt but nevertheless hope the Ombudsman comes good for you. Good Luck

 

WD

[brassnecked]

Hi Munchkette

 

You deserve a medal for perseverance, I doubt but nevertheless hope the Ombudsman comes good for you. Good Luck

 

WD

 

Ditto from me, you have stuck with it for so long now

[ploddertom]

I'm sorry to hear you still having issues over this matter. I think there was always a problem from the beginning over this as there was never an independent 3rd party witness available so it was always going to come down to a he said she said scenario. In your case it went the wrong way and although you did try your best I think it is time to put the bad bits behind you and move on to trying to get any overcharged fees back. I would not hold your breath about a result from the LGO. The response from the trade body is no surprise as they are funded by their member companies.

 

Quite a way back you say you sent off to the Bailiffs for a SAR and at that time said you never received a response. Is that still the case? If so do you know whether they cashed the £10 cheque/PO you sent for it? If they have not complied then obviously the 40 day time limit is well past in which case you could make life awkward for them by either taking them to Court for non-compliance or reporting them to the ICO for the same thing. My view of this one would be to go for the Court option although you would have to write and give them one last chance.

 

I note you appear to have a list of the charges they have applied, but do you also have the dates they were applied. Did you ever receive this from the Bailiffs themselves or is the only list you have is from the Council? Did you actually sign the Walking Possession Agreement?

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Remember from the scant details you have they are claiming to have visited a minimum of 4 times so far.

 

PT

[RyderUK]

I had similar problems with Equita - I paid their bailiff using a friend's credit card due to a letter the bailiff had left behind that mis represented his powers. He charged me £300 in charges stating that he haad visited and charging for a vehicle to attend. I contacted the woman who dealt with complaints (who would communicate only in writing and could not operate a telephone). When I advised her that I had examined all my CCTV footage going back several weeks... and also pointed out that I icould not be charged for the vehicle since there was no walking posession in place there was a prompt about face and £300 reappeared on my friend's credit card!

 

I know it isn't always this straightforward but there are times when the little guys win and I wish you the best outcome possible!

[munchkette]

Thanks everyone for your messages of support. Yes I am still ploughing on with my mission against them until I have exhausted every possible avenue. They should not be allowed to get away with treating people like this but it seems like they have the full cooperation of the law and supposed public bodies to protect people from them

 

I contacted my local newspaper about it and they came back to me once and I haven't heard from them since. I will definitely follow up on it with them in the coming months and also contact national newspapers as I think a light definitely needs to be shone on their behaviour and also attention drawn to people's rights when it comes to bailiffs attending their homes. The police are completely uneducated when it comes to the law on what bailiffs can and can't do and they are essentially assisting bailiffs in misrepresenting their powers and even giving out completely false information to the public like that all bailiffs are allowed to enter your home by force! Then when it comes to pressing charges against bailiffs for committing fraud by misrepresenting their authority the police don't want to know!

 

Regards the bailiffs charges, I have never received any correspondence at all from them even though they claimed to the council that they had sent me letters and more recently when I complained to CIVEA they produced a falsified letter in response to my subject access request letter which neither I nor the council have ever received but they claim they sent to me in March last year! Ugh they are so full of crap!

 

The only letters with regards to the charges I have ever received are from the council and now this new letter which Goodwillie & Corcoran produced for CIVEA. I would like to pursue their failure to comply to the subject access request that would be another angle but what is their punishment for that? Also would I get anywhere with it if they are now claiming to have sent me a letter in March last year? They confirmed receipt of my complaint letter and subject access letter on 12th Feb 2010 however their supposed response is dated 31st March 2010 and I have never received this and they have no evidence that it was ever sent or received.

 

According to this new letter they visited 7 times including the visit where the bailiff assaulted me.

 

@Tooth Fairy the response I got from Bromley County court was just that the judge agreed with the previous judge's ruling and that I should consult a solicitor for advice. The letter was riddled with spelling mistakes and to this day I wonder if Goodwillie & Corcoran actually have someone at the court intercepting complaints about them. No explanation of the judge's ruling was ever provided nor any advice on how to challenge or complain about the ruling. I obtained an address to complain to a higher court from hmcs but I have never gotten round to it but as this is proving to be a sticking point and Greenwich council are absolving all blame and responsibility based on this ruling I think I will escalate to the higher court to see if there is anything they can do or if they can at least shine a light on how they have reasoned that a bailiff forcing entry into a home and assaulting someone is legal.

 

@PlodderTom the new letter from the bailiff details the dates the charges were applied. The first two visits were apparently in August and September 2009, the remainder of the charges were applied on 10 Feb 2010. I only ever received a breakdown of charges from the council and not from the bailiff themselves. Yes, I signed the walking possession agreement last year but I understand that has now lapsed as they are only valid for a year not to mention it was illegally obtained in the first place as the bailiff did not obtain peaceful entry to my home.

[outlawla]

....The police are completely uneducated when it comes to the law on what bailiffs can and can't do and they are essentially assisting bailiffs in misrepresenting their powers and even giving out completely false information to the public like that all bailiffs are allowed to enter your home by force! Then when it comes to pressing charges against bailiffs for committing fraud by misrepresenting their authority the police don't want to know!.......

 

I notice from your initial post that the Police fobbed you off with "it's a Civil matter" after reporting the bailiff for fraud. I had the same, and would imagine this is a bog standard response.

 

Apart from the obvious fact that bailiffs are systematically committing fraud by misrepresentation, an interesting point I came across while doing research into these issues could give you an argument that:

 

Owing to Statutory Instrument – 2010 No. 60 (L.2) "The Criminal Procedure Rules 2010"; the fraud or attempted fraud committed by these bailiffs is a Criminal matter, not Civil.

 

PART 7

 

STARTING A PROSECUTION IN A MAGISTRATES' COURT

 

Summons, warrant and Requisition

 

7.4–(6) Where the court issues a summons–

(a) the prosecutor must–

(i) serve it on the defendant, and

(ii) notify the court officer....

 

The above legislation was the basis for the HMCS's response to a FOI request regarding councils sending out summonses on behalf of the Magistrates' court.

 

By HMCS's own admission, alleged non-payment of Council Tax is a "CRIMINAL" matter, hence the "The Criminal Procedure Rules 2010".

 

P.S

 

I agree, it seems that everyone is on the side of councils and the bailiff firms, Police, LGO, ICO IPCC. I recommend that you are persistent with the press.

 

Good luck.

[Guest Tooth Fairy Wishes]

@Tooth Fairy the response I got from Bromley county court was just that the judge agreed with the previous judge's ruling and that I should consult a solicitor for advice. The letter was riddled with spelling mistakes and to this day I wonder if Goodwillie & Corcoran actually have someone at the court intercepting complaints about them. No explanation of the judge's ruling was ever provided nor any advice on how to challenge or complain about the ruling. I obtained an address to complain to a higher court from hmcs but I have never gotten round to it but as this is proving to be a sticking point and Greenwich council are absolving all blame and responsibility based on this ruling I think I will escalate to the higher court to see if there is anything they can do or if they can at least shine a light on how they have reasoned that a bailiff forcing entry into a home and assaulting someone is legal.

I would if it was me in your "shoes" Munchkette I would go down the Higher court path, (unless you try you will never know the answer) as I do totally agree with you that:

 

"They should not be allowed to get away with treating people like this but it seems like they have the full cooperation of the law and supposed public bodies to protect people from them"

Someone has to say STOP as its been going on a very long time.

 

I am as stubborn as a mule & would use every avenue as you have done to get this sorted out once a for all. A few years ago I actually used the local newspaper in the area I used to live in to help me out & it was their intervention that got me the result I needed at the time. So DO try both your local newspaper & the nationals as well.

 

Stick with it & good luck Munchkette!!

 

Fingers & Tootsies X