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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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Yes Car Credit & Go Debt Help Please


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yeh got car from them then i saw a programme saying they were selling unsafe cars and i just had my twin girls at the time so i wated it checked they refused so i told them i want paying for itso it got took back and sold at auction .. now go debt are threatening with stat demand

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  • 4 weeks later...

hi debt4debt im in the same pickle with go debt just recieved my caa and it looks like my deposit was taken off insurance.Do i just write to go debt and say its nill and void or is there a special letter i can send they are also threatning us with a stat demand dont reall know what to do now.Any help would be really appreciated thanks.

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hi jazzy will post up letter to send if they issue stat demand dont panic..let us know and we will put together set aside for you...in the meantime send em this...send it word for word

 

Xx

Xx

Date

Agreement number

Dear sir/madam

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

after having my agreement from DAF looked at I can now confirm the following

I HAVE NO INTENTION OF MAKING ANY PAYMENT ON THIS ACCOUNT. I REQUIRE GoDebt TO EITHER CLOSE DOWN THIS ACCOUNT OR ISSUE AN N1 county court claim

 

I will now explain why the agreement is unenforceable, might I also suggest yourselves running it past a solicitor qualified in the consumer credit act and regulations.

 

When the agreement was taken out, I was informed that I had to take out payment protection insurance to cover the creditor if I was unable to make repayments.

 

Now this constitutes a charge for credit as it has been included in the amount of credit.

 

As the amount of credit has been misstated, the agreement cannot be enforced, as the amount of credit is a prescribed term, a court is prohibited from enforcing the agreement.

 

For clarity may I suggest you study s.127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974?

 

The agreement in the way it is laid out falls well short on a compliant agreement.

 

For your reference the payment protection insurance needs to be included in total charge for credit and not the amount of credit

.

As the agreement is in two parts, the conditional sale and credit agreement, as they have been linked, the true cost of the vehicle has been overstated. This puts the debtor at a disadvantage should he/she wish to do a voluntary termination on the vehicle.

 

I now draw your attention again to the meaning of amount of credit.

 

This is the difference between the cash price of the vehicle and any advance deposit.

 

Might I suggest you look at s.9 (4) of the consumer credit act 1974 for clarity?

 

Now as the price of the deposit was added to the insurance and not the credit agreement (car)

 

The cost of finance to the debtor has increased in the conditional sale agreement (car finance)

 

I WILL NOW EXPLAIN IN CRYSTAL CLEAR ENGLISH

 

1/ ANY DEPOSIT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE CREDIT AGREEMENT/INSURANCE AND NOT FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

THAT WOULD BE THE CONDITIONAL SALE PART OF THE AGREEMENT

 

2/ THE DEPOSIT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE AMOUNT OF CREDIT ON THE INSURANCE

 

3/ BY DOING THIS, THE TOTAL FIGURE REPAYABLE ON THE CONDITIONAL SALE AGREEMENT HAS BEEN MISSTATED, PUTTING THE DEBTOR AT A DISADVANTAGE IF HE/SHE WISHES TO DO A VOLUNTARY TERMINATION.

 

IN SIMPLE SPEAK

 

THE TOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT AND AMOUNT OF CREDIT HAS BEEN MISSTATED.

 

May I suggest looking at s.90 of the consumer credit act on termination and payments of a third?

 

THIS ALSO IS PREJUDICIAL IN THE ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATE WHICH TO WILL BE MISSTATED AND BEING A PRESCRIBED TERM, MAKES THE AGREEMENT UNENFORCEABLE.

 

Please do not insult my intelligence by stating its In the terms and conditions] which I signed and agreed to. That is unless you consider a contractual agreement is binding and the consumer credit act is not.

 

 

I require a final response as to either issue an N1 claim and allow me to enter a defence or close down this account.

 

 

yours faithfully

xxxxx

 

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it cost you nothing it costs them hundreds when they lose set aside..and at the mo they have only threatened stat demand..dont worry...godebt lose everytime...you only need to worry bout stat demand when they issue it which you say they havent yet? just threatened

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it is excellent news..confirms what we have known for a long time that these agreements were not worth the paper that they are written on..godebt must be seriously worried by now...the only ones they will get anything from are the poor people who know nothing about this

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it is excellent news..confirms what we have known for a long time that these agreements were not worth the paper that they are written on..godebt must be seriously worried by now...the only ones they will get anything from are the poor people who know nothing about this

 

Quite:mad: Just make sure you paste the links wherever you go;)

 

1.2 million pound debt successfully written off*- Stephensons*Solicitors (Leigh, Wigan, Manchester, Bolton, St Helens) - Family, Commercial Law, Conveyancing

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/265616-official-news-go-debt.html#post3006399

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hi debt4debt i sent off the letter template you gave me i have had a letter back from go debt this morning.There letter states that because the i agreed to allocation of the down payment that i cannot deny liability.I made a down payment that to my knowledge was for the deposit on the car not a down paymeny on additional optional non cancellable insurance where do i go from here i would appreciate any advice you can give me.I have also lokked at scanned copys of agreements other people have sent to you and they are all filled out the same as mine.

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usual drivel they come back with...have a look at the above links for stephensons if you are concerned...godebt will try every which way they can in order to extort money out of you...the agreement is crap...if they dont think it is then let them issue a county court claim as you told them in the letter..they wont...they probably or may try for a stat demand...they've yet to win one...wouldnt worry...since when did you agree to the allocation of the down payment....what they are trying to say is they are holding you to the terms and conditions...it is rubbish as is the agreement..let em say what they want....we are on here absolute that this agreement is not worth the paper it is written on..so are stephensons..and so are the courts

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i sent stephensons an e-mail the other night stating i was having trouble with go debt,they asked me to let them know how much go debt was chasing me for i sent a reply but have not heard anything back.In the mean time should i write back and tell them the agreement is utter rubbish and they know that.

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you can, we do have a letter that states conclusively that you will enter into no more correspondence with them...stephensons are very good but would hold off a moment if it were me until and if godebt try playing hard ball....you will have to pay stephensons they wont do the work for nothing..but they are very very good at getting rid of godebt

Go debt

Xx

Xx

Date

Agreement number

Formal complaint as to your complaints procedure

Dear sir/madam

 

I am surprised that I have to write to you again over this account you have purchased from direct auto finance, trading as, yes car credit.

 

On xx/xx/xx I sent you a letter and I pointed out that the agreement was unenforceable due to the insurance products being added to the cost / amount of credit. I also informed you that any more threats of court action would be viewed as harassment. (Copy enclosed)

 

 

Any threats from your solicitors Hollis brigs will not be tolerated and any attempt at a statutory demand for bankruptcy will be met with an application to set aside with full costs.

 

I now require a final response from go debt over this account.

 

I will point out in plain English so even a juvenile can understand as my last letter seems to have been ignored

 

I HAVE NO INTENTION OF MAKING ANY PAYMENT ON THIS ACCOUNT. I REQUIRE GODEBT TO EITHER CLOSE DOWN THIS ACCOUNT OR ISSUE AN N1 county court claim.

 

On the next page I will explain why the agreement is uinenforceable, might I suggest running it past a solicitor qualified in the consumer credit act and regulations as it’s obvious by the responses received in this matter are incorrect.

 

When the agreement was taken out, I was informed that I had to take out payment protection insurance to cover the creditor if I was unable to make repayments.

 

Now this constitutes a charge for credit as it has been included in the amount of credit.

 

As the amount of credit has been misstated, the agreement cannot be enforced, as the amount of credit is a prescribed term, a court is prohibited from enforcing the agreement.

 

For clarity may I suggest you study s.127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974?

 

The agreement in the way it is laid out falls well short on a compliant agreement.

 

For your reference the payment protection insurance needs to be included in total charge for credit and not the amount of credit

.

As the agreement is in two parts, the conditional sale and credit agreement, as they have been linked, the true cost of the vehicle has been overstated. This puts the debtor at a disadvantage should he/she wish to do a voluntary termination on the vehicle.

 

I now draw your attention again to the meaning of amount of credit.

 

This is the difference between the cash price of the vehicle and any advance deposit.

 

Might I suggest you look at s.9 (4) of the consumer credit act 1974 for clarity?

 

Now as the price of the deposit was added to the insurance and not the credit agreement (car)

 

The cost of finance to the debtor has increased in the conditional sale agreement (car finance)

 

I WILL NOW EXPLAIN IN CRYSTAL CLEAR ENGLISH

 

1/ ANY DEPOSIT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE CREDIT AGREEMENT/INSURANCE AND NOT FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR.

THAT WOULD BE THE CONDITIONAL SALE PART OF THE AGREEMENT

 

2/ THE DEPOSIT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE AMOUNT OF CREDIT ON THE INSURANCE

 

3/ BY DOING THIS, THE TOTAL FIGURE REPAYABLE ON THE CONDITIONAL SALE AGREEMENT HAS BEEN MISSTATED, PUTTING THE DEBTOR AT A DISADVANTAGE IF HE/SHE WISHES TO DO A VOLUNTARY TERMINATION.

 

IN SIMPLE SPEAK

 

THE TOTAL CHARGE FOR CREDIT AND AMOUNT OF CREDIT HAS BEEN MISSTATED.

 

May I suggest looking at s.90 of the consumer credit act on termination and payments of a third?

 

THIS ALSO IS PREJUDICIAL IN THE ANUAL PERCENTAGE RATE WHICH TO WILL BE MISSTATED AND BEING A PERSCRIBED TERM, MAKES THE AGREEMENT UNENFORCEABLE.

 

Please do not insult my intelligence like last time by stating its I the terms and conditions which I signed and agreed to. That is unless you consider a contractual agreement is binding and the consumer credit act is not.

 

Any more acts of intimidation from your company in whatever form will now result in a county court claim for harassment.

 

I require a final response as to either issue an n1 claim or allow me to enter a defence or close down this account.

 

I await your response as to your complaints procedure for which as a condition of your consumer credit licence, you must give me a final response within the required time frame.

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as an aside my ycc agreement was originally with a dca called hillesden..they offloaded all the agreements when we originally challenged them years ago and they lost heavily in the courts over these agreements...godebt are having a last throw of the dice as they bought these lemons...but you have to look at logically..if they can get most people to pay up then they on a winner it is only now and again that people find there way here and learn they can fight them successfully

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it is a generic letter you can leave that sentence out ... I also informed you that any more threats of court action would be viewed as harassment. (Copy enclosed)

just delete that sentence it doesnt apply in your case

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  • 3 months later...

Hi all, reading this forum which has been interesting to say the least. I have a poser, also regarding Yes Car and Go Debt. Maybe Post and Debt4Get or any others could shed some light on my/my wife's position.

 

She took a car loan out with YCC on 22/11/2004 and ultimately returned car. She has since not heard anything till beginning part of this year where they started to send letters to her mum's address. We do not live in the UK at present. Following checks on GD we decided to ignore the letters and have them sent back to GD declaring we no longer reside in the country or at that address. They have continued on a sporadic basis to keep issuing letters to the same address upon which my wife's mum has returned them un-opened.

 

We have now just received an annual statement to my wife's mum's house from GD from 01/10/2009 to 01/10/2010 requesting the balance be settled.

 

Questions:

a) Does the 6 year rule apply and if so will they continue to persist after this?

b) Advice on how to proceed. We can request a copy of the agreement using the templates provided but ultimately if this leads to them issuing an SD it is highly unlikely we would be able to attend the court hearing.

 

Would welcome the advice provided. Thanks

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