Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)Info and discussion thread

[Bluedo]

Sent within a minute of me reading it! Really hope it helps! We can't get the big boys at Advent to say anything but hopefully a former employee is good enough!

 

I'm sure it will be Pigwig and will verify the claim that we were told "Go at your own pace take as long as is needed to get the qualifications" that will back up what we're saying is the truth. Thank you

[mugsymo]

Hi mugsymo,

Welcome, that's why were all here to get a bit of support and this forum has been a god send to me I have been on a roller coaster of emotions and it can be very stressful having to deal with the highly unfair way we've been treated by Barclays shocking. Hope we hear soon the next stage.

 

I too have found things difficult i tried contacting the CAB and they were not useful at all they told me a have no choice, i have also contacted Consumer Direct and this is what i recieved.

 

Dear Mr Mowat,

Thank you for your enquiry to Consumer Direct dated 5th July. Your reference number for this case is SE xxxxxxx and should be quoted in all further correspondence regarding this case.

With reference to your enquiry, under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, Barclays Partner Finance will be considered jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract. This means your rights against Barclays are the same as those you would have had against the Home Learning College if they were still trading.

The difficulty you may find is that in a service agreement, you should be allowing the trader a reasonable opportunity to remedy the problems with the service. Barclays may argue that providing a like for like course, they are remedying the problems. As a result, they could argue that you have no legal basis for a claim.

You may potentially argue that if the training differs to what was originally agreed, this is not like for like and there will ask for a refund.

The difficulty in such a situation where there is a valid argument from both sides is that only a judge in court can decide whether your argument is reasonable. Due to this, you may need to consider taking court action or approaching the Financial Ombudsman at some stage.

At this stage, I would suggest that you write a recorded delivery letter to Barclays Partner Finance requesting your money back. You should make time of essence for this to be provided within a reasonable time. Make sure that you keep a copy of the letter for your records.

You will find a template letter for this at:

www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/template-letters/consumer_credit/

I

 

[Bluedo]

mugsymo,

I was told the same by Trading Standards sent off the letters to BPF and they replied with my complaint was being dealt with and have received nothing back from them referring to any points I raised.

As CD point out the argument between us and them boils down to the like for like and BPF have altered the spec of Computeach to include all the complaints we had against them, ie Free Resits length of time to complete course Providing CCNA all differences Computeach had have been altered by BPF fo Advent students. To make the glove fit the criteria for a legal argument.

 

I saw a post on FB yesterday of a guy who signed up with Computeach and has received an email from them saying CT will not do the free resits he approached BPF re this and BPF have told him it's unfortunate but to stay with Computeach so we have been well warned and our suspicions confirmed.

He also is being stalled and has not began a lot of the study materials he needs and because he is wanting to take an exam in a pearson Vue centre he will not be allowed the classroom days shocking We have been WARNED!

 

Our argument is reasonable

Edited July 9, 2010 by Bluedo
forgot a bit

[lowdown]

Had my Gospel today - posted Leicester.

Seem to be comming from all over the place.The amount that are being posted

would be adding up in terms of cost - postage/paper/ink and time etc.

Maybe more than one person involved.

I know that Barclays data base is being compromised [ all fool Barclays]

But i must applaud these people or person for the commitment involved.

Edited July 9, 2010 by lowdown

[mozzer0734]

Just had another call from BPF, they seem to be trying a new way to get my money now. The very polite lady said they would be happy to cancel my credit agreement; all I had to do was confirm my details with compucrap and cancel my training. Funny though how when I asked for this in writing she went very quiet and was unable to tell me when they would be able to send this. Looks like they will try anything to get me to sign up with them.

[Fuzzbutt]

Hi Pigwig,

That's good news well done! Send it to Ingrid ASAP.

 

Nice one, Pigwig....more evidence to power the cause!

[Fuzzbutt]

Sent within a minute of me reading it! Really hope it helps! We can't get the big boys at Advent to say anything but hopefully a former employee is good enough!

 

Thanks, Pigwig, for doing that - I'm sure it will all help, and as everyones' experiences seem pretty similar, the more of us who can pass this to the legal team the better as it makes their case to Barclays all the more undisputable.

[lowdown]

Just had another call from BPF, they seem to be trying a new way to get my money now. The very polite lady said they would be happy to cancel my credit agreement; all I had to do was confirm my details with compucrap and cancel my training. Funny though how when I asked for this in writing she went very quiet and was unable to tell me when they would be able to send this. Looks like they will try anything to get me to sign up with them.

 

To confirm you details with CT. What does that mean, i wonder?

Good grief had she forgoten what she had said to you a few seconds earlier?

BPF confirm you details when they call and say " I am calling you about your Advent loan, can you confirm you details for security purposes"

 

Might be worth writing to them [Recorded of course - although this seems

to amount to nothing with BPF] and ask them to confirm excactly what they/she means. Maybe just a staff cue sheet - then you can remind them what to say when they call you again:D

Edited July 9, 2010 by lowdown

[Fuzzbutt]

Just had another call from BPF, they seem to be trying a new way to get my money now. The very polite lady said they would be happy to cancel my credit agreement; all I had to do was confirm my details with compucrap and cancel my training. Funny though how when I asked for this in writing she went very quiet and was unable to tell me when they would be able to send this. Looks like they will try anything to get me to sign up with them.

 

I wouldn't trust a word of CT promises to be honest, Mozzer.

 

I had a desperate email this week from someone who had contacted CT just to inquire about more info to see if it was like for like, then told them she did NOT want to study with them, but was asked to just confirm her name, address etc. Next day she gets an email saying thank you for verifying your details and we will be posting your study materials.

 

For anyone who doubts it, here's what I was given by email by a CT rep....

 

"You will cover various packages and programmes during the course, DreamWeaver, Flash, Fireworks etc. You learn this in a simulated online environment. i.e. You can log into the software online and learn how to use it, without actually having to purchase it yourself.

 

The workshop days are completely optional. They are there as an additional support measure for those students who need it.

 

We provide you with software that allows you to take practice/mock exams all the way through your programme. Before you go in for your ‘real’ exam you will take an official online mock exam where the results come to ourselves. Should you pass that, we book you in for the real one. We set a passmark of 90% for this, which is higher than you will need for your actual exam. The reason for this is we want you to be totally confident that you will pass when you go in for your exam. Historically we have an 85% first time pass rate. That has increased since we introduced this system.

 

At the end of the 12 months, if you have not completed your studies you can extend your training at that time. You do not have to subscribe for another full 12 months, you would continue on a month to month basis until you have completed it. Obviously we encourage you to maintain your studies so that you don’t pay any more than you need too.

 

If you fail an exam, we don’t cover resits unfortunately. However, with the system we have above, that shouldn’t cause you any problems as we want you to pass first time!

 

With regards to the careers department, we can’t guarantee you an actual job as we are not the company that will be employing you. We can guarantee to get you interviews lined up however.

We don’t charge per course or per qualification. We charge for ‘study time’.

 

Simply put, we provide you with support for an initial period of 12 months. During this period you can do as many qualifications as you like.

 

So, as an example, if you began with the CIW course and completed that after 9 months, you could begin the Networking route (MCSA, MCSE) in the remaining 3 months.

 

The cost for 1 years support is £1679 including VAT.

 

There is an incentive for full payment, you have a choice between

 

a: 10% discount (£1511)

 

or

 

b: 14 months study instead of 12.

 

If a full payment isn’t an option then you can pay for the program on a monthly basis £139.95 per month over 12 months.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Any other questions, fire away!"

 

He was pretty upfront and not hiding anything, but reps seemed to have been briefed to feed people the line that they will honour all the conditions of Advents contract. That's obviously a lie to judge from the experience of the unfortunate guy from Facebook group who took their word for it and signed up!

[Mustard2243]

Blimey Bluedo,

 

Thanks for the info. this is all more evidence for the case i am so glad i did not sign up. No classroom days because they want to take the exam close to home WTH!! is that all about there is no doubt in anyones mind the alternative is by far inferior. Talk about and orange jumper now they are trying to give us a jumper out of the bin.

[pigwig]

happy I can actually do something to help!

[mozzer0734]

My post was more a warning to others than anything else, just showing they will lie over the phone to get you to sign up with computeach. Her whole line was "Yea sure we will give you money back, just sign up with computeach then cancel your course, oh an I’m sorry but I can’t put that in writing just trust me yea" How stupid do they think we are. She then confirmed my account was in dispute and that it was on the system but told me the phone calls would continue, I said that’s fine I will just add harassment to my case against them. She didn’t know what to respond to this and that was the end of the call.

[Stevolfc]

A bit of help people!

 

Has anyone recieved anything back from FO about their complaint yet?! (not sure if this has already been the case but i've not been fully upto speed on the forum lately)

The FO are declining my complaint?!?! I quote... "Having considered all the evidence and circumstances surrounding your complaint, i am of the opinion that the business offer to appoint an alternative course provider is fair and reasonable in the circumstances"

 

How do i sort of counteract this with an explanation that computeach are not like for like? Another quote from the letter "Under the relevant rules Barclays Partner Finance has an obligation to ensure it provides the goods, in this case a computer course, i am not of the opinion that by changing the providor, barclays partner finance is not able to provide the course. I Believe that by finding an alternative provider it has fulfilled its obligation to provide the goods which i find to be a reasonable solution"

 

Im not sure what to write back, the only thing they questioned was the "help you find a new job" part of the advent contract, which they have dismissed in this letter because i wasnt specificially guarenteed a specific job. What ever happened to Section 75?! I dont quite understand the "under the relevant rules" part either.

 

If anyone can help? - I've just sent my documents to the solicitor buzzbutt is sorting out as i wasnt sure if the FO could sort it..now i know they cant

[lowdown]

A bit of help people!

 

Has anyone recieved anything back from FO about their complaint yet?! (not sure if this has already been the case but i've not been fully upto speed on the forum lately)

The FO are declining my complaint?!?! I quote... "Having considered all the evidence and circumstances surrounding your complaint, i am of the opinion that the business offer to appoint an alternative course provider is fair and reasonable in the circumstances"

 

How do i sort of counteract this with an explanation that computeach are not like for like? Another quote from the letter "Under the relevant rules Barclays Partner Finance has an obligation to ensure it provides the goods, in this case a computer course, i am not of the opinion that by changing the providor, barclays partner finance is not able to provide the course. I Believe that by finding an alternative provider it has fulfilled its obligation to provide the goods which i find to be a reasonable solution"

 

Im not sure what to write back, the only thing they questioned was the "help you find a new job" part of the advent contract, which they have dismissed in this letter because i wasnt specificially guarenteed a specific job. What ever happened to Section 75?! I dont quite understand the "under the relevant rules" part either.

 

If anyone can help? - I've just sent my documents to the solicitor buzzbutt is sorting out as i wasnt sure if the FO could sort it..now i know they cant

 

I would seriously consider making a very strong complaint to fos about the

validity of the adjudicator actually seriously looking into the facts.

One thing apart from no mention of like for like.

A computor course?

What does he/she think you have done? paid 50 quid for a couple of nights at some local collage learning Microsoft Word basics?

The mind boggles as to what fos really are.

[cashins]

I would seriously consider making a very strong complaint to fos about the

validity of the adjudicator actually seriously looking into the facts.

One thing apart from no mention of like for like.

A computor course?

What does he/she think you have done? paid 50 quid for a couple of nights at some local collage learning Microsoft Word basics?

The mind boggles as to what fos really are.

 

I myself have little faith in the FOS, just another 'quango' type bullsh*t.

 

As I understand it however you can appeal the decision and I would suggest you do if for no other reason than to disturb their quiet life.

 

David

[10pack]

Hi Guys

I just got my letter "The Gospel according to barclays partner finance...."

 

post marked Leicester.. so some of the ex emplyees took the BPF database with them..

 

I would not be surprised if its not just us students from advent, access, and Red that are being written to.. I am thinking about all the other people we have not heard about who took out loans with BPF and they do not have the support of numbers such as we have.. they must feel very alone.

[Fuzzbutt]

I myself have little faith in the FOS, just another 'quango' type bullsh*t.

 

As I understand it however you can appeal the decision and I would suggest you do if for no other reason than to disturb their quiet life.

 

David

 

I agree there, David.

Here's a site set up about the shortcomings o FOS.

 

external links removed

 

and on here....

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service - The Consumer Forums

 

I have no faith in them either but am going through the motions just to say I've done it by the book. I haven't had a result yet but if it's a 'no' (and no adjudicator has had the balls to haul BPF up yet, despite the clear breach of contract under S75, with all those lost weeks on our courses) then I'll be raising it with our legal team. Perhaps time FOS was axed by the new government as a waste of space and a REAL objective, assessor appointed.

Edited December 31, 2010 by IdaInFife
external link removed

[Fuzzbutt]

Hi Guys

I just got my letter "The Gospel according to barclays partner finance...."

 

post marked Leicester.. so some of the ex emplyees took the BPF database with them..

 

I would not be surprised if its not just us students from advent, access, and Red that are being written to.. I am thinking about all the other people we have not heard about who took out loans with BPF and they do not have the support of numbers such as we have.. they must feel very alone.

 

Just got mine too this morning, also from Leicester. My loan is paid off. I'm sending a copy of this to Nick Sommerlad at the Daily Mirror for his investigation. At least he's in a position to use the info to reach a wider audience.

[lowdown]

Perhaps time FOS was axed by the new government as a waste of space and a REAL objective, assessor appointed.

 

 

Perhaps when the outcome of this situation reaches an outcome.

We should all maybe put together a petition towards Downing street

regarding the way the fos approached all of this.IE treating it like people are just trying to claim back a £22.00 bank charge, and nothing more.

 

Still the quote of the year for me in a fos response.

"A computor course"

Sums them up really.

Edited July 10, 2010 by lowdown

[lowdown]

One thing to remember regarding the The Gospel thing,

It would not have come from just a hard done by call centre worker.

It would have had to come from higher up the chain,

Like a systems admin or such, to have user privileges to gain entry

to a secure data base system.

[10pack]

One thing to remember regarding the The Gospel thing,

It would not have come from just a hard done by call centre worker.

It would have had to come from higher up the chain,

Like a systems admin or such, to have user privileges to gain entry

to a secure data base system.

 

Either way.. I think a thanks should be given to these ex employees at least they are showing that they care.. unlike the company they worked for.

just hope they dont get into serious trouble over it.. I bet the bosses at BPF know about the letters and are steaming mad trying to find out who they are.

I also wonder what other information they may have taken with them?

its the same with any company.. they all have internal secrets that they do not want generally known.. and if the info the emplyees have with them pertains to all the dirty washing of BPF??

[Fuzzbutt]

Either way.. I think a thanks should be given to these ex employees at least they are showing that they care.. unlike the company they worked for.

just hope they dont get into serious trouble over it.. I bet the bosses at BPF know about the letters and are steaming mad trying to find out who they are.

I also wonder what other information they may have taken with them?

its the same with any company.. they all have internal secrets that they do not want generally known.. and if the info the emplyees have with them pertains to all the dirty washing of BPF??

 

Likewise, I applaud these employees/ex-employees and hope they don't get into grief for this.

 

I once 'grassed' Lambeth council to a London newspaper for wasting tax-payers money on 'jollies' - I'd resigned about the same time. My former manager knew it was me and covered for me because she agreed with what I'd done (although I'd effectively broken my contract I suppose by copying invoices and internal records to a reporter). As my manager was getting a finger pointed at her from higher up I wrote to the Chief Exec and 'confessed' so it was all out in the open. Nothing was done against me - what could they do, facts were facts? bet they wre spitting feathers in the boardroom though!

 

I don't know where these guys would stand legally re; data protection etc and if they could be prosecuted.

 

I hope they get in touch with our lawyer anonymously (hint)!!

[lowdown]

Either way.. I think a thanks should be given to these ex employees at least they are showing that they care.. unlike the company they worked for.

just hope they dont get into serious trouble over it.. I bet the bosses at BPF know about the letters and are steaming mad trying to find out who they are.

 

I totally agree, and did applaud them several pages back.

[Bluedo]

Blimey Bluedo,

 

Thanks for the info. this is all more evidence for the case i am so glad i did not sign up. No classroom days because they want to take the exam close to home WTH!! is that all about there is no doubt in anyones mind the alternative is by far inferior. Talk about and orange jumper now they are trying to give us a jumper out of the bin.

 

That's not the half of it Mustard it seems to be a catalogue of problems for the poor guy apparently he has did this to well he said sacrifice himself to find out what would happen if you join up. speaks volumes.

 

I got the Gospel according to BPF this morning from Cheshire.

Maybe a travelling salesman has been given the job to post them. Maybe an Advent rep lol with a new job.

[mugsymo]

That's not the half of it Mustard it seems to be a catalogue of problems for the poor guy apparently he has did this to well he said sacrifice himself to find out what would happen if you join up. speaks volumes.

 

I got the Gospel according to BPF this morning from Cheshire.

Maybe a travelling salesman has been given the job to post them. Maybe an Advent rep lol with a new job.

 

Where do i get this Gospel?