How to reclaim charges made by unreasonable bailiff fees

[loanda]

Bailiffs visited couple years ago for Council Tax, i let them in (doh) he did all his usual paperwork, i gave him some cash there and then (had a receipt which i've kept thankfully) and agreed to a payment plan which for a few months i was able to stick to. I missed a payment here and there during these times they visited again (these occasions they was left outside in the cold).

I enquired about the balance of my council tax account with my local council a few months after the initial visit thinking i'd repayed the majority of it, when they politely informed me that my balance was only £30 less and they had only receieved one payment from the bailiffs. I was shocked. I'd been paying the bailiffs for 9 months unaware that none of these payments were being credited to my council tax account. Luckily the woman from council tax was sympathetic and recalled the account back from the bailiffs. What on earth was i paying for, for 9 months? I've heard that if i write to them asking for a detailed breakdown of all the fees etc they are obliged to send them? And could this be sent via email or would it have to be snail mail?

[wonkeydonkey]

Yes you can and as always I advocate sending SAR £10 well spent and will give you everything you need to know to allow you to claim the charges back in court.

 

WD

[wonkeydonkey]

It makes no difference how you send it but use the template found on here. They have 40days to comply. I would strongly recommend if you send by email you also hard copy by recorded delivery for obious reasons

 

WD

[hallowitch]

do you still have the walking possession agreement if you don't ask for it in your subject access request

[wonkeydonkey]

When sending my SAR I asked for all info they held on me..when it arrived it took a while to go through it but you will soon see gaps and then you know they have been very naughty and have not complied in full.

 

wd

[comebackjimmy]

subbing

[seanamarts]

I would certainly get the council to investigate this as well... it just shows that its always best to pay the council and ignore the bailiff as you never know where your money will end up

[loanda]

Thanks wonkeydonkey thought I could. Will be sending subject access request immediately. Could well be the best £10 spent ever. You mention 'gaps' if i think they're deliberately hiding some information what can i do about it?

 

do you still have the walking possession agreement if you don't ask for it in your subject access request

I do indeed.

 

 

I did ask the council if they would look into it when I initially found out but they said they couldnt but wont hurt to try again, will be onto that first thing.

 

Thanks...keep you posted on my progress

[wonkeydonkey]

Same as I have done take them to court..I am there on Tuesday with failing to comply in full to SAR ...my claimant refuses to communicate on the subject and did a bit of name calling in writing. I have no idea what the outcome will be or what to expect but I do know I will put up a good fight.

[hallowitch]

Thanks wonkeydonkey thought I could. Will be sending subject access request immediately. Could well be the best £10 spent ever. You mention 'gaps' if i think they're deliberately hiding some information what can i do about it?

 

I do indeed.

 

 

I did ask the council if they would look into it when I initially found out but they said they couldn't but wont hurt to try again, will be onto that first thing.

 

Thanks...keep you posted on my progress

 

 

Have you checked to see if anything levied is on the exempt list is there anything on HP

would the goods levied cover all bailiff fees and a portion of the debt when sold at auction

[loanda]

Same as I have done take them to court..I am there on Tuesday with failing to comply in full to SAR ...my claimant refuses to communicate on the subject and did a bit of name calling in writing. I have no idea what the outcome will be or what to expect but I do know I will put up a good fight.

Oooh good for you....hope it works out well, they cannot get away with it!

[ploddertom]

 

I did ask the council if they would look into it when I initially found out but they said they couldnt but wont hurt to try again, will be onto that first thing.

 

 

If contacting the Council go further up the chain rather than those that sit at the front or answer the phone. Remind the Council that the bailiff works for them so they are responsible for what they do. If you find out they have overcharged you remind the Council you may list them as Co-Defendant in any action you may take.

 

One more thing to do is to contact your local Councillor and appraise him of the situation. You could of course remind him/her that as the Councils agents are ripping people off you consider it your duty to inform the local press so others can be forewarned.

 

PT

[loanda]

Have you checked to see if anything levied is on the exempt list is there anything on HP

would the goods levied cover all bailiff fees and a portion of the debt when sold at auction

Nothing on the exempt list, and ha ha no they wont cover the fees nor the debt (micro and table and four chairs) I've paid almost £400 to them and for what i have no idea, i mean how any times would they need to visit to justify that expense!! My brain hurts thinking about the idiots, they make me so angry

[hallowitch]

Nothing on the exempt list, and ha ha no they wont cover the fees nor the debt (micro and table and four chairs)

 

I would say this is not a valid levy

you have paid aprox £370 in bailiffs fees have you ever missed a payment or made a late payment

[loanda]

If contacting the Council go further up the chain rather than those that sit at the front or answer the phone. Remind the Council that the bailiff works for them so they are responsible for what they do. If you find out they have overcharged you remind the Council you may list them as Co-Defendant in any action you may take.

 

One more thing to do is to contact your local Councillor and appraise him of the situation. You could of course remind him/her that as the Councils agents are ripping people off you consider it your duty to inform the local press so others can be forewarned.

 

PT

 

Like it. Especially the local press idea because i know of many people who've been visited by the same bailiffs, they operate within a very large area and i'm sure many people would benefit if warned.

[wonkeydonkey]

Nothing on the exempt list, and ha ha no they wont cover the fees nor the debt (micro and table and four chairs) I've paid almost £400 to them and for what i have no idea, i mean how any times would they need to visit to justify that expense!! My brain hurts thinking about the idiots, they make me so angry

 

Well both of those could be exempt unless you have another cooker and another table and chairs? how many in your houseld as you need 1 chair per person and the table to eat off. so could be an invalid levy.

[loanda]

Nothing on the exempt list, and ha ha no they wont cover the fees nor the debt (micro and table and four chairs)

 

I would say this is not a valid levy

you have paid aprox £370 in bailiffs fees have you ever missed a payment or made a late payment

 

I'm curious, why isnt this a valid levy? I dont recall missing a payment but i'm sure i made one or two late payment, oh and now i'm thinking about, after one instance of late payment i was told i had to make a further £35? to avoid another visit? I paid it! I realise now how foolish i was. They saw me coming no wonder they came back for more.

[loanda]

Sorry wonkeydonkey posted before i read your latest post, i had another cooker but certainly not another set of table and chairs i was short on chairs as it was, five of us and only four chairs (highchair for the little one at the time)

[hallowitch]

As wonkeydonkey said Well both of those could be exempt unless you have another cooker and another table and chairs? how many in your housed as you need 1 chair per person and the table to eat off. so could be an invalid levy

Thats 1 reason

And another reason is the goods levied when sold at auction must cover the bailiffs fees

if the bailiff removed your goods and sold them he wouldn't get enough to cover the levy fee and you have already been charged a van fee

then you would have these fees on top

 

For the removal and storage of goods for the purpose of sale:

Reasonable costs and fees incurred

 

 

For other expenses of, and commission on, a sale by auction—

• (i) where the sale is held on the auctioneer's premises The auctioneer's commission fee and out-of-pocket expenses (but not exceeding in aggregate 15 per cent. of the sum realised), together with reasonable costs and fees incurred in respect of advertising.
  

[hallowitch]

Irregular Distress (Levy) by Bailiffs

With thanks to Tomtubby

[edit]MRS AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL

This is another well known legal cases that has been relied upon many times when either issuing proceedings, or one that can be referred to when writing a letter of complaint. This case concerns a lady by the name of Mrs Ambrose who claimed that a levy (distress) was irregular as bailiffs had removed goods from the home that were necessary for “providing the basic domestic needs of the family”

Background:

Mrs Ambrose and her husband had an unpaid Council Tax bill for £851.00 owing to Nottingham City Council. In September 2003, Rossendale’s Bailiffs attended at their home to levy distress on goods. Rossendale’s had entered the property, where they identified items that were listed on a Walking Possession. Next to those items listed, the bailiff wrote the words: “and all other goods on the premises unless exempt or specially exempt by statute.” The bailiff had not looked around the house; he had merely entered one room and was therefore unable to see which items were “exempt”

Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 lists the following items as being exempt from seizure:

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

"Such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying basic domestic needs of the person and family".

As the Council Tax remained unpaid, the bailiff returned with a van to seize furniture that included a sofa, footstool and two dining chairs.

District Judge Cooper agreed that the seizure was irregular as the bailiff had removed furniture that was necessary for “satisfying the basic domestic needs of Mrs Ambrose and her family” This was because, amongst other items removed, the bailiffs had removed 2 dining chairs. They left behind the table and the remaining two chairs. As the family consisted of Mrs & Mrs Ambrose and one child, the bailiffs should have left seating for 3 people, not two.

Nottingham City Council had argued that there could not be any irregularity as Mrs Ambrose had signed the Walking Possession. This was rejected by Judge Cooper who agreed that Mrs Ambrose was faced with the prospect of having her goods removed unless she signed the Walking Possession.

As important as the above is, the Judge also agreed that the wording on the Walking Possession was deficient in that the reference to “all other goods on the premises unless exempt” did not specify what those other goods were, and which ones were exempt. The Judge agreed that the levy was also irregular for this reason

[tomtubby]

Bailiffs visited couple years ago for Council Tax, i let them in (doh) he did all his usual paperwork, i gave him some cash there and then (had a receipt which i've kept thankfully) and agreed to a payment plan which for a few months i was able to stick to. I missed a payment here and there during these times they visited again (these occasions they was left outside in the cold).

I enquired about the balance of my council tax account with my local council a few months after the initial visit thinking i'd repayed the majority of it, when they politely informed me that my balance was only £30 less and they had only receieved one payment from the bailiffs. I was shocked. I'd been paying the bailiffs for 9 months unaware that none of these payments were being credited to my council tax account. Luckily the woman from council tax was sympathetic and recalled the account back from the bailiffs. What on earth was i paying for, for 9 months? I've heard that if i write to them asking for a detailed breakdown of all the fees etc they are obliged to send them? And could this be sent via email or would it have to be snail mail?

 

Common sense has prevailed and the council have taken this account back into their control. It is VITALLY important that a letter entitled FORMAL COMPLAINT is now sent to the council and this MUST be marked for the attention of the Chief Executive.

 

By doing this you will not only help yourself...but many other people too.

 

The purpose of the bailiff visit is to "levy upon goods" to cover the debt. In this case the bailiff has levied upon a chairs and a table and microwave.

 

In the first instance the chair and table would be EXEMPT FROM SEIZURE as per the legal case of AMBROSE. The microwave can be taken but this would in no way cover the debt and charges for its removal.

 

The bailiff who did the walking possession was wrong in that he should have completed a Nulla Bono certificate ( This is a certificate to confirm to the council that there are not sufficient goods on which to levy) !!

 

If he had done this, the debt would have been returned back to the council. Instead, but levying upon exempt and worthless goods, the bailiff in the first instance secured a walking possession and levy fee. More serious is that when you have made a payment late, he has used this as a reason to return back to the property on the basis that you have defaulted on the payment arrangement, and in so doing...he has then been able to apply an "attending to remove" fee to your account!!

 

Council Tax recovery is rather unique in that all payments made MUST first be applied to bailiff bailiff fees, with the remainder being applied towards the actual Liability Order.

 

This case is one where it would appear that the bailiff, by not completing a Nullo Bono certificate, has made a significant financial gain for his company..... with little or no regard for the local authority.