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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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Caught Driving With No Licence


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Hello fellow Caggers,

 

After a bit of advice. My best friend got caught driving his car while not having a full UK driving licence. He holds a provisional and insurance but that was it. I believe the insurance is void anyway because he didn't have anybody sitting with him in the car. He was parked up in Tesco's when the police pulled up and accused him of driving without a licence. He held his hands up and said it was true. They then got the car towed away and left him in the middle of our town. He had to pay a release fee to get the car back the following day and has been waiting for a court date for the offence. All this happened in September/October time and still he has had nothing through. Is there a timescale for these things? Has he gotten away with it (not that I condone what he done)?

 

Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

<----------- If I have helped in any way please click on my scales :p

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I have no idea M R N. I think because he knew he was in the wrong he just let them get on with it. Then paid around £150 to the compound company to get the car back

<----------- If I have helped in any way please click on my scales :p

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The police towed his car from private land? Do they have that authority?

 

Yes Tescos car park is a defined as a road under the RTA 1988

 

164 Power of constables to require production of driving licence and in certain cases statement of date of birth

(1) Any of the following persons—

(a) a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,

 

“road”, in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes,

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G & M,

 

Would you mind if I asked a question, please?

 

I own a car park - it's very small, and it probably could only hold six or seven vehicles - it's associated with the garage that I own.

 

It's totally separate from where I live, in fact, it's over the road, but anybody can drive onto it from the [public] road, there is no barrier, I own the land, and the garage, freehold.

 

As it seems that it's part of the road, by default, does this mean that I cannot bar the Police from entering it?

 

Regards

 

Sam

All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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G & M,

 

Would you mind if I asked a question, please?

 

I own a car park - it's very small, and it probably could only hold six or seven vehicles - it's associated with the garage that I own.

 

It's totally separate from where I live, in fact, it's over the road, but anybody can drive onto it from the [public] road, there is no barrier, I own the land, and the garage, freehold.

 

As it seems that it's part of the road, by default, does this mean that I cannot bar the Police from entering it?

 

Regards

 

Sam

 

I doubt it I'm no expert on the law but I'm sure the Police can enter any open space without permission, its only property ie 'indoors' that they cannot enter freely. If you are talking about motoring law it depends on the circumstances if an offence takes place as some offences require the vehicle to be on 'a road' others 'a road maintained at public expense'.

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I doubt it I'm no expert on the law but I'm sure the Police can enter any open space without permission,
As can anyone (except for Crown property etc. which would be a criminal offence).

 

They might still be trespassing, and the landowner / occupier could require them to leave, even to the extent of using force, if the police are not there lawfully.

 

(The police do, of course, have far more powers that enable them to be somewhere lawfully.)

 

its only property ie 'indoors' that they cannot enter freely.
The only difference between indoors and outdoors would be down to whether entry was forced - The police have powers to force entry under certain conditions.
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I'm not questioning the constable's authority to stop the vehicle in the carpark. I'm questioning the the police's authority to remove it.

 

(5) Where this subsection applies, the constable may—

(a) seize the vehicle in accordance with subsections (6) and (7) and remove it;

(b) enter, for the purpose of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a), any premises (other than a private dwelling house) on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the vehicle to be;

© use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by paragraph (a) or (b).

 

 

(9) In this section—

(a) a reference to a motor vehicle does not include an invalid carriage;

(b) a reference to evidence that a motor vehicle is not or was not being driven in contravention of section 143 is a reference to a document or other evidence within section 165(2)(a);

© “counterpart” and “licence” have the same meanings as in section 164;

(d) “private dwelling house” does not include any garage or other structure occupied with the dwelling house, or any land appurtenant to the dwelling house.

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The only difference between indoors and outdoors would be down to whether entry was forced - The police have powers to force entry under certain conditions.

 

Which is why I said 'freely' obviously with a warrant they can force entry. I still don't think they can legally enter a property even if the door is unlocked without good cause.

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Thank you for your useful replies.

 

Sam

All of these are on behalf of a friend.. Cabot - [There's no CCA!]

CapQuest - [There's no CCA!]

Barclays - Zinc, [There's no CCA!]

Robinson Way - Written off!

NatWest - Written off!

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I believe the insurance is void anyway because he didn't have anybody sitting with him in the car. .

I don't think you are right regarding the insurance. Just because he has commited an offence does not really invalidate his insurance policy. Drink driving is also against the law but does not invalidate your insurance.

regards

Please remember our troops, fighting and dying in our name. God protect them.

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I don't think you are right regarding the insurance. Just because he has commited an offence does not really invalidate his insurance policy. Drink driving is also against the law but does not invalidate your insurance.

regards

 

Insurance would be "normally be void" as driver only had a provisional license and insurance would "normally" carry a conditional which is someone has to be with the driver who holds a full license etc.

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal Experiences/Mistakes lol...

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Absolutely correct. It is a condition of insurance for a provisional license holders that they are accompanied by a qualified driver.

 

If he had a collsion the insureres would quite rightly refuse to pay out as he is not qualified to be in charge of the car, where as a supervising driver is.

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I don't think you are right regarding the insurance. Just because he has commited an offence does not really invalidate his insurance policy. Drink driving is also against the law but does not invalidate your insurance.

regards

 

In drink drive cases the insurers will pay for any damage caused to property NOT owned by the driver, but they will NOT pay for any damage caused to the policyholders own vehicle. They are then legally entitled to recover their outlay from the policyholder if they so wish.

 

If you are not accompanied by a suitable person on a provisional licence then your insurance is invalid because you are committing an offence at the time of driving unaccompanied.

 

Mossy

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In drink drive cases the insurers will pay for any damage caused to property NOT owned by the driver, but they will NOT pay for any damage caused to the policyholders own vehicle. They are then legally entitled to recover their outlay from the policyholder if they so wish.

 

If you are not accompanied by a suitable person on a provisional licence then your insurance is invalid because you are committing an offence at the time of driving unaccompanied.

 

Mossy

 

So are you saying that insurers could not pay for damage to the policyholders own vehicle if the driver was speeding at the time the damage was caused?

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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So are you saying that insurers could not pay for damage to the policyholders own vehicle if the driver was speeding at the time the damage was caused?

 

Technically YES they could because the policyholder was breaking the law at the time the accident occured, however in reality they don't.

 

When I first began working in motor claims in the early 1980's we would pay for any and all damage that a policyholder did if they were over the legal alcohol limit (including damage to their own car), but that all changed in about 1985/1986 and we stopped paying for any damage sustained to their own car and just paid out for thrid party claims (and in some cases we have then recovered those costs from the policyholder).

 

It's a question of social acceptance, as attitudes have changed and drink driving is no longer socially acceptable insurers have distanced themselves from it by refusing to assist a policyholder with their own repairs, however speeding does not have the same stigma (whilst I don't condone speeding it is something that happens a lot), that may not be the case however if the policyholder is engaged in a street race or is say doing 130MPH along the motorway etc. Each instance would be reviewed on its own merits and a decision to deal with or decline would be made accordingly

 

Mossy

Edited by Mossycat
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...
Is this the RTA?

 

[Edit]

 

Found it.

 

If I read it right, then a constable can seize a vehicle from someone's driveway if, say, someone's unlicensed child had driven it in the previous 24 hours.

 

Wow.

Edited by My Real Name
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Which is why I said 'freely' obviously with a warrant they can force entry. I still don't think they can legally enter a property even if the door is unlocked without good cause.

Green and Mean's posts are accurate. As far as powers of entry are concerned, learn sec17 PACE '84. Also look at specified offences.
Entering for the purpose of searching / arresting.

 

As a MOP, I can walk into any unlocked door, and not be charged with any criminal act (unless I damage something, or intimidate someone). A police officer also has that ability.

 

It's semantics and quibbling, I know.

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Is this the RTA?

 

The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 added sections 165A and 165B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which give police the power to seize a motor vehicle being driven without a driving licence or insurance. The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor Vehicles) Regulations 2005 as amended formally brought these powers into force on 6 July 2005.

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The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 added sections 165A and 165B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 which give police the power to seize a motor vehicle being driven without a driving licence or insurance. The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor Vehicles) Regulations 2005 as amended formally brought these powers into force on 6 July 2005.
Thank.

 

If I read it right, then a constable can seize a vehicle from someone's driveway if, say, someone's unlicensed child had driven it in the previous 24 hours.

 

Wow.

 

Is there any appeal process? Or can the owner / RK effectively be fined without any due process?

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