stouffy & Council tax ***WON***

[Stouffy]

Hi

 

I can't seem to find a link to open a new thread and really need some help please

 

I have council tax arrears of £2,000 and made an arrangement with Equita to pay £250 per month until Feb 2010 and then pay the balance in March when i receive a bonus from work.

 

I paid my first two months and found that i couldn't afford as much in November, so called to ask whether I could skip November and pay in December, they were rude and unhelpful and basically said no, I was strapped again in December but didn't call them to let them know as I couldn't cope with the inevitable unhelpful response.

 

Today a bailiff called at my home, my partner was in but didn't let him in, what shoudl i do? what can i do? Can I revert back to the council and pay them or should I continue trying to pay off Equita, I can't afford to pay anything for anotehr 2 weeks and I know they will not be accepting of that.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks guys

x

[hallowitch]

Welcome to CAG this Link will take you to a new page near bottom of new page on left new thread Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers if you have any problems with it come back and let us know

[Stouffy]

Thanks for that, still not sure what to do as I'm in a panic so not thinking straight, should I call the bailiff to try and make an arrangement or send the letter and/or contact the council, also what can they charge me legally as they have whacked a fair bit on top (need to check the letters for exact amount) but if you could give me some guidance that would be great.

Thanks

x

[RaeUK]

No worries, Stouffy, that's understandable. If you click on the link Hallowitch provided, scroll to the bottom left, click on 'new thread' and it'll open up pretty much like adding a post here. The only extra needed is to give it a title..

Rae.

[saintly_1]

posts moved to a thread of their own

[ploddertom]

Thanks Saintly

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Thanks for that, still not sure what to do as I'm in a panic so not thinking straight, should I call the bailiff to try and make an arrangement or send the letter and/or contact the council, also what can they charge me legally as they have whacked a fair bit on top (need to check the letters for exact amount) but if you could give me some guidance that would be great.

Thanks

x

 

Easy to say I know but do a Michael Winner! If you haven't let him and he hasn't levied on anything outside then the most he can charge you is for visit fees - £24-50 1st visit & £18 2nd visit. Maybe a tad more been charged if you are paying by credit card. Would be grateful if you can post what has been charged so far.

 

You need to know from the Council how much the Liability Order is for and how much is still outstanding. If he hasn't been in your home then keep him at bay, you don't have to deal with him. You can pay the Council direct but will still have to pay some fees. next time he contacts you with his threats tell him you heard better on Jackanory.

 

Plenty of help and advice here as some of us have been in similar or worse positions.

 

PT

[Stouffy]

Thanks for your response, I am still going through p/w and will post charges once I am able to figure them out.

 

My car is parked outside, will they know that the car belongs to me if it's not for a car related debt or do I need to park it elsewhere? I won't let him onto the house so hopefully that will be OK.

 

I called the council today and they confirmed that the order is for £2600, so far Equita have forwarded to the council £251 of the £500 I have paid to them. They also confirmed that I would have to deal with them (Equita) directly unless they passed the debt back to the council.

 

What are my next steps, should I call the bailiff or leave it and forward the letter to them , I am happy to make an arrangement from the end of this month but I know that won't be accetable to them as they would want immediate payment. If the council insist on me dealing with the bailiff then I guess I have no choice.

 

Won't call him tonight will wait for advice from someone here

 

Thanks again for your help on advance.

 

Cx

[ploddertom]

Thanks for your response, I am still going through p/w and will post charges once I am able to figure them out.

 

My car is parked outside, will they know that the car belongs to me if it's not for a car related debt or do I need to park it elsewhere?

 

You need to park this well away from your house as he will attempt to take it - not just round the corner. By any chance does it have finance outstanding on it?

 

I won't let him onto the house so hopefully that will be OK.

Good - keep your windows and doors locked as he can enter through them if left unlocked.

 

I called the council today and they confirmed that the order is for £2600, so far Equita have forwarded to the council £251 of the £500 I have paid to them. They also confirmed that I would have to deal with them (Equita) directly unless they passed the debt back to the council.

 

Sounds as if they have already upped their charges.

 

What are my next steps, should I call the bailiff or leave it and forward the letter to them , I am happy to make an arrangement from the end of this month but I know that won't be accetable to them as they would want immediate payment. If the council insist on me dealing with the bailiff then I guess I have no choice.

 

You can pay the Council direct using their online payment system or automated phone line, these have to be accepted. Pay whatever you can afford on a regular basis and print receipts for payment - make for confetti to dangle in front of Bailiff.

 

Won't call him tonight will wait for advice from someone here

Don't speak to him unless you can record the conversation - for some unbeknown reason Bailiffs have been know to lie in the past, and of course the fine upstanding people that they are they never do this do they?

 

Thanks again for your help on advance.

 

Cx

 

PT

[Stouffy]

Hi Ploddertom

 

Thanks so much for your advice, it does unnnerve me a little to not pay the bailiff but to pay the council will the debt reduce if I do that stilll, I am more than happy to do that, but don't want to be watching my back in case he turns up again which am sure he will. I have no finance on the car it's worth about £400.

 

Once they realise I am paying the council should they leave me alone after a while?

 

Thanks again, still really panicking but I know I am not the only one in this position.

C

x

[hallowitch]

have the bailiffs been in your house to levy goods

have they levied your car

 

by looking at the amount of fees you have paid so far I would say you have been charged a levy fee and a van fee for a missed payment

[Stouffy]

No they haven't been to my house, they 'visited' me for the first time today, my partner wouldn't let them in, and nothing on the car at the moment, what happens when they levy the car do they take it?

[hallowitch]

no they don't remove it they take possession of the car but leave it with you if don't pay they remove the car to pay the debt

 

when you pay the bailiffs they take there fees first before they pay the council

If you paid £500 last payment being October then in my opinion the bailiff has taken £249 in fees if there is no levy then the only fees that could be charged are 1st visit fee 2nd visit fee £18 you really need to find out what fees have been added to your account and what they are for

 

 

 

I don't think the bailiffs can levy your car the reason being for the car to be removed and sold it would have to cover a large portion of the dept plus bailiffs fees

 

If your car is is worth approx £400 what would it sell for at auction £100 if you are lucky this would not cover the removal and auction fees

 

therefore the removal and sale of the car would increase the debt not reduce it

 

So i would say if the cant remove and sell it they cant levy it the sole reason for a levy is to secure goods against the debt

 

Note the word think at the Beginning of this post

I cant see a reason why this wouldn't be correct but i would like others to comment

[RaeUK]

Hallowitch, you live up to your name! I was just mulling over the fact that I have read somewhere - but have no idea where - that councils [all or some I don't know] have agreements in their contract that unless the car will substantially reduce the sum owed it should not be levied.

I hope someone can clarify...

Rae.

[Stouffy]

OK right I've gone through my paperwork (which is a mission in itself), I have actually only paid them £251 to date, this is the amount the council have confirmed they recieved (is that a good thing?) Also looking at all the notices they have sent there is no mention of any of their fees on any of them , they just say that any action they take may involve me in considerable further expense. The notice I recieved today says

"Payment is due in full in 24 hours" " I have attended today with the intention of removing your goods and chattels as necessary to discharge the outstanding C Tax iability order and any additional Enforcement Costs Incurred"

 

So what now, shall I pay the council and hope for the best or try and reason with this monster!

 

Thanks again for you help x

[hallowitch]

Hallowitch, you live up to your name! I was just mulling over the fact that I have read somewhere - but have no idea where - that councils [all or some I don't know] have agreements in their contract that unless the car will substantially reduce the sum owed it should not be levied.

I hope someone can clarify...

Rae.

 

 

I'M sure i read it somewhere too cant remember either where i read it

 

I try to save things that i read that could be useful in my favourites but i either cant find them or loose them

 

I really am going to have to bite the bullet and get get my daughter to do a database or whether you call it so that i don't loose thing and they are easy to find I'm sure she can come up with something for me thats easy to use

[RaeUK]

HW I just copy and paste into word as and when I feel so inclined. I think if your daughter devises something that can help us she'll make a fortune from the voluntary sector!

 

Stouffy, apologies, I've been sidetracked tonight by trying to prep for a meeting tomorrow about my benefits appeal tribunal.

I've never known a bailiff not to write down their fees! It's a bit of a macho peeing contest from what I've seen!

I apologise for repeating basic advice - I don't have the time to re-read your thread at the mo and I'm getting old! - but any contact with the bailiff is detrimental to your financial health.

You'll get better advice on the morrow...

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited January 12, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[crockie]

Stouffy

 

You will get loads more advice today, I'm sure but for now I will tell you what I have done so far.

 

We owe allmost and identical amount to you (well we did a month ago)

 

We have so far sent a letter to the council making them an offer of payment and asking them to recall account from Bailiffs.

 

Have sent a letter to Bailiffs telling them that we will not deal with them.

 

Received letter back from Bailiffs - council put action on hold until 4/1 then they are coming to get me apparently.

 

Received letter back from Council, wont recall Bailiffs.

 

Sent another email to council to ask why they are willing to accept my payments but still let their dogs loose.

 

Received email from council, they will never refuse money but will not recall bailiffs.

 

Formal complaint sent in to council which will now be looked at by someone higher up in the chain.

 

Whilst all these letters/emails have been going to and fro we have been making regular weekly payments and have now paid allmost a quarter of the amount owed.

 

The bailiffs havent called again yet but I cant say that I am enjoying life at the moment because I am sure that they wont have given up yet.

 

However after being ripped off, intimidated and threatened by a Bailiff previously, I reckon that living in continual stress (wondering if/when they will call again) for another couple of months or so whilst I make these payments has got to be better than the alternative.

 

Also whilst I think on - check if you come under any of the vunerable classifications, sorry I havent got time to post link at the moment. If you have alook through some other threads you will find all details there.

 

Also check if you are entitled to council tax relief

 

Good luck with it, hang on in there, pay the council and dont pay/communicate with Bailiffs.

[tomtubby]

I'M sure i read it somewhere too cant remember either where i read it

 

I try to save things that i read that could be useful in my favourites but i either cant find them or loose them

 

I really am going to have to bite the bullet and get get my daughter to do a database or whether you call it so that i don't loose thing and they are easy to find I'm sure she can come up with something for me thats easy to use

 

The general principle is that if a bailiff were to remove goods (whether this is a sofa, computer or more importantly a vehicle) he needs to ensure that the item would raise sufficient money to pay a large proportion of the debt after their fees were paid.

 

With council tax, bailiff fees are deducted FIRST from any payment made so if for instance there is a debt of £1,500 and a bailiff were to take a vehicle that would raise approx £500 at auction he would know that this would incur an "attending to remove fee" of approx £150, fees for a low loader ( possibly another £150) additional fees for storage of normally £20 per day, auctioneers costs of £50 and form these rough figures you can see that selling the vehicle would merely raise sufficient to pay bailiff fees only . In addition, of course a vehicle has been taken and the debtor may well not be able to go to work.

 

The bailiff would be accused of removing and selling a vehicle to raise bailiff fees for his company and NOT to pay towards the debt.

 

The regulations state as we that if there are sufficient goods on which to levy the bailiff should return the account back to the local authority as NULLA BONO (this means nil effects...or no goods on which to levy to cover the debt)/

[Stouffy]

Morning,

 

Thanks for all your advice so far, it's good to know that poeple are willing to share their stories and advice to help others. I called the council this morning to find out whether they would accept payment, they advised me to write to them as well as the bailiff to let them know what my intentions are (paying the council direct) rather than just randomly paying the money online. They didn't say that they would take the debt back but they told me to write in anyway.

 

They said they can't stop the bailiff contacting me and I am hoping that the letter template might work. Crockie would you be able to send me the wording of your letter to the bailiff telling them that you won't be dealing with them?

 

The only thing I am unsure of is the fees they have charged which will continue and increase with every visit does this have to be paid? I still can't see that they have taken any monies from me for their costs as there are no specific charges on any of the corespondance from Equita so I presume the chages are hidden in the debt amount. The £251 I have paid has definately been received by the council.

 

I am still really nervous about not paying the bailiff but you advice has elliviated some of those concerns.

 

Thanks x

Edited January 12, 2010 by Stouffy
Forgot to add something

[crockie]

I adapted a letter off this thread Council Tax and Bailiffs which Hallowich very kindly directed me to.

 

You really do have my sympathies, I am also nervous about not paying the Bailiffs but as I say I know from past experience that if you give them an inch then they will take a mile.

 

Not totally sure about this but I think I have read that the Bailiffs have 90 days from when they were appointed to collect the amount, or they have to return the acount to the council -IF ANYONE COULD CLARIFY THIS I WOULD BE GRATEFUL.

 

If this is correct then we are now allmost half way through

[hallowitch]

The general principle is that if a bailiff were to remove goods (whether this is a sofa, computer or more importantly a vehicle) he needs to ensure that the item would raise sufficient money to pay a large proportion of the debt after their fees were paid.

 

With council tax, bailiff fees are deducted FIRST from any payment made so if for instance there is a debt of £1,500 and a bailiff were to take a vehicle that would raise approx £500 at auction he would know that this would incur an "attending to remove fee" of approx £150, fees for a low loader ( possibly another £150) additional fees for storage of normally £20 per day, auctioneers costs of £50 and form these rough figures you can see that selling the vehicle would merely raise sufficient to pay bailiff fees only . In addition, of course a vehicle has been taken and the debtor may well not be able to go to work.

 

The bailiff would be accused of removing and selling a vehicle to raise bailiff fees for his company and NOT to pay towards the debt.

 

The regulations state as we that if there are sufficient goods on which to levy the bailiff should return the account back to the local authority as NULLA BONO (this means nil effects...or no goods on which to levy to cover the debt)/

 

Thanks you for this I now have a better understanding of the situation

[layer_cake]

I adapted a letter off this thread Council Tax and Bailiffs which Hallowich very kindly directed me to.

 

You really do have my sympathies, I am also nervous about not paying the Bailiffs but as I say I know from past experience that if you give them an inch then they will take a mile.

 

Not totally sure about this but I think I have read that the Bailiffs have 90 days from when they were appointed to collect the amount, or they have to return the acount to the council -IF ANYONE COULD CLARIFY THIS I WOULD BE GRATEFUL.

 

If this is correct then we are now allmost half way through

That's a key point and shouldn't be under estimated as I know from very unpleasant encounters with money-grabbing bailiffs. I am referring to those private operators who collect unpaid parking fines and council tax.

 

If they smell any fear, they'll see that as a GREEN LIGHT to fill their boots. Likewise, any sign of ignorance of our rights and they'll do the same. That's the difference a site like this and the work that volunteers can make.

 

Once the bailiff knows that you know your rights and that you are not scared, the chances are that they'll move on to an easier target. Or, at the very least you won't get ripped off.

 

They don't like dealing with calm, rational, confident and knowledgeable people who they can't 'head-work' as they're unlikely to clean up the extortionate profits they are looking to make.

 

They play a numbers game. I get the impression that they look for the weakest, most vulnerable targets for the maximum profit. A very, very sad state of affairs indeed; and some of these characters wouldn't be out of place in the dark Victorian or even Dickensian days!

[Stouffy]

HIya

 

I've written to the council with the following:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

After having the opportunity to seek advice, I write on the understanding that case law has ruled that an authority is liable for any bailiff services it appoints.

 

On 11th January I was visited by one of your bailiff officers from Equita who was collecting council tax arrears on your behalf. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became vexatious in nature. He made unrealistic demands of money which are beyond my means and has been charging extortionate bailiff fees which are unlawful.

 

After calling your offices this morning to discuss the above I was helpfully advised to write to you to formally request that you take back the case from the bailiff appointed in order for me to pay you directly and promptly for the debt. I ask the council therefore:

 

1) To withdraw the warrant/case from the bailiff

2) To apply a sole occupancy discount to my 2009/2010 tax bill, which wasn't picked up by your process last year and reduce the debt accordingly

3) To provide me with a breakdown of my arrears after deducting the discounted amount

4) To please accept my offer to pay £200 on 25th January 2010, a further £200 on 25th February and the balance in full on 25th March 2010.

 

I would also like to advise you that I will continue to pay you directly for the debt via the arrangement outlined above and not Equita until it is paid in full on 25th March.

I hope to hear from you soon in order to acknowledge, resolve and move on with this debt amicably.

 

I am now about to put together a letter from the template for the bailiff and picked up on a Nullo Bono provision (90 days). The liability order was granted to them on 25th September and it has been 106 days since it was granted. CAn I include this fact in my letter to them?

 

Thanks again for all your help guys feel much better!

 

C

x

[hallowitch]

After having the opportunity to seek advice, I write on the understanding that case law has ruled that an authority is liable for any bailiff services it appoints.

 

nothing to do with case lay

the council employ bailiffs as there agents to collect council tax therefore they are fully responsible for all actions of there employee

 

 

I am now about to put together a letter from the template for the bailiff and picked up on a Nullo Bono provision (90 days). The liability order was granted to them on 25th September and it has been 106 days since it was granted. Can I include this fact in my letter to them?

 

I don't think you should put this in your letter i don't think the regulations state a time it has to be with the bailiffs

I think most councils have there own code of conduct for there enforcement agents you may want to ask the council for a copy of this