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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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RyanAir Charges


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Hi All,

I've just registered so please accept my appologies if this subject has already been covered.

Can anyone please tell me if it is Legal for Ryanair to charge individual Credit card Charges to everyone in a travelling party when they're ALL on the one booking instead of just one charge per booking?

If it isn't, does anyone know of any previous cases?

Thanks again to all for any responses

 

BB

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As I see it Ryanair can charge what they like for whatever they like. If they called it a "Booking Fee" or an "Admin Fee" would that make you happier?

The only query I would have is under the Trades Descriptions Act as to whether they can call something a credit card charge when it clearly is not.

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Hi geoff1248

Thanks for your kind reply. For a minute there you read like an Employee :D

I'm not against Ryanair charging a fee (called by any name).

What I am questioning is the Legality of, say, in a party of 5 - why charge 5 fees when it is only 1 card belonging to 1 person that's making a booking that's only processed once? Happiness comes from clarification...

Thanks again

BB

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I am not a lawyer - so this advice is based purely on what I have read.

 

I am not sure what law you feel they might have broken. Their charges are there to see - albeit you may not have seen them.

 

Ryanair certainly feel they can charge what they like and treat customers outisde the norms of usual customer service.

 

While ever people continue to travel with them they will continue to do so. Peronally I would rather stick red-hot needles through my eyeballs.

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Hi Folkiedave. Thanks for your reply.

Just found out most Card companies in the US have outlawed it and 10 States have made it illegal. Why not here? I think there is a reluctance in the UK to challenge this and we just can't be bothered with the hassle. Its the principle - we don't mind a charge - but make it FAIR

 

Quote. I asked Visa about the practice, and Ted Carr, spokesman, responded: "Visa does not allow merchants to charge consumers a fee for using a Visa card because we do not believe that cardholders should be penalised for using their cards. Checkout fees on purchases are harmful to consumers and unfairly shift the cost of electronic payments onto consumers"

Will update this post when I've contacted my own card company.

Thanks again

BB

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This has been mentioned before, but I know from forced regular use of Ryanair [no other carrier goes there] that they charge £5 per person per flight, so £25 each way if you do a return trip for 5. I'm not saying I agree with it by any means, just clarifying.

 

There is something on this forum about the one card they don't charge for, but I don't recall the name of it.

 

The last booking I made with Ryanair the other day was more transparent than it used to be about charges. I can't remember if they added on the charge for using a credit card after I clicked to accept the booking, like they did last year. I know there is a facility to click through for information on charges, but of course if you book online, you have to use a card........

 

As for admin, tax and other charges, they are complete mystery to me and seem to vary according to the headline cost of the flight, as in they seem to be higher for the cheaper tickets.

 

I would love the OFT to look at this.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Just things like only buying promotional fares...they come without online check-in charges. Know what free payment method they use, know hand luggage size restrictions and keep extras stuffed in pockets, a seperate carrier...wear extra things if need be. No proirity seating; there's always a seat. Eat before boarding the plane so there is no temptation to eat food with a 5000% mark up (guess) and I eat before going to the airport too, although MAN has a Greggs and I'm not that tight I won'y pay 52p for a sausage roll, lol.

 

Avoid giving them commissions by using hotel and car hire scrapers, and also never buy a ruddy gift certificate because they expire @ 6 months and they don't give change!! (paying for a £1 flight and using a £25 voucher?! - minimum denomination)

 

Just stuff like that really. Another one is to make sure you don't fall foul of any dodgy weighing machines and make you split weight across other people's luggage where possible (this usually involves moving womankinds extra weight to mankinds!!)

 

Just generally keep an eye on what they are planning and I always read their T&C's before booking incase they are trying something on. I can't stop now - also it has been alleged that Ryanair purposefully get people's salutation wrong and make purposeful errors with names. Whether that is the case or not I type out my details with paranoid precision and make sure the screen is still, computer not busy, and click submit once - double clicking makes Ryanair a fortune in their thoroughly annoying name change fees etc.

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No, but they have retained paid air passenger duty when it was not incurred (I never made the flight - so they didn't pay the APD). The swines, like others, charge an admin fee to issue the due refund which, funnily enough, is higher than the refund. There is no admin - it's just so they can keep your money.

 

Ryanair are so down on me though, I don't care anymore! My weight in kerosene does not cost 2p or £2 - which is just about the most I'll pay!

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Thanks Thailand, it's kind of you to share that.

 

I think our problem is that we can't necessarily choose when we travel.

 

Have you experienced the problem of 'admin charges' varying with the price of tickets at all?

 

My best.

 

I have used the same method as Thailand and got some very good deals...it is a problems when you have to book at a late stage of any journey...then you will have to pay through the nose. However, I agree there is no admin as if you try to recover any costs for anyone of their fligths the admin will be much more than than what the flight costs ie £1. or £5, which is most I have paid since 2005 with Ryain air

 

In 2005, I book to go to a wedding and I book which I thouhg was months in advance with a very good prices, however, when I got to the airport I was told that I was month late, I book it for April instead of May!!! How stupid is that!!!! it was a genuine error on my part. I was in total panic at the airport. I was told that if I want to travel that day I would have to pay £250.00 and the wedding was the next day therefore I had to fork out that amount of money for a standby flight which had empty seats on it????

 

After that experience I am very careful when booking for any flights or indeed train journeys....:|

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I turned up a day late at Girona once and Ryanair wouldn't accept my argument that 'our bums on a seat today are the same as our bums on a seat yesterday' LOL. Can't blame 'em for that. Thing is had to stay in ruddy Lloret de Mar for another 3 days in a hotel that catered for the Spanish grey euro as it was out of season...saved money by waiting 3 more days though!

 

Not the first time I've turned up a day late either *must not get so trollied on hols* :D

 

Standby is one way of putting it, Allwood, they know now that this policy makes them more money - in the good old days we could turn up at the airport and get a good deal!

 

I have booked two return journeys before now in case one goes t*ts up (as long as they were Ryanair and cost a penny)

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