Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

A/covert Security Services Ltd


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5136 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi To All

 

I got a tkt on new years eve, basically it was within a shopping centre car park area.

 

As you can imagine it was very busy and cars were all over the place, mine was'nt though, the council or centre owners had put metal barriers around the can bins/recycle area thus reducing the area to park, I parked as did 7 others, ok it was not within the bays but it was not obstructing anything nor anybody, certainly not any other motorists.

 

I called Covert and asked who'm I write to re complaint, the fella introduced himself as the director but stuttered a bit as I had caught him ' on the hop ' I asked him why he had clamped etc, and why the fee is £100.00 but you will give me a discount if paid within 14 days of £50.00.

 

He got irate and said, well dont pay then, and I will send a bailiff.

 

Any advice on this please as to what I should do next.

 

Cheers

 

Mr W

Edited by Mr Worried
spelling

Regards..Mr Worried :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Ignore them and do nothing else. As per the sticky posts, these tickets are nothing but unenforceable invoices.

 

Hi Real

 

Ignore them???? Mmmm I'd rather not? it says CIVIL PARKING CHARGE NOTICE.

 

And I have never defended a charge for parking before, so I am a bit nervous.

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

All you have is an unenforceable invoice from an ordinary private company.

 

It's a [problem].

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them again

ignore their threatening junkmail

ignore any rubbish from powerless debt collectors (don't confuse them with bailiffs)

• they will not take you to court (where they'd lose)

• they will give up and go away

 

It's a mail [problem]. Buy addresses from the DVLA, send out threatening crap and wait for the cheques to come in from mugs.

 

They can call it whatever crap they like - it's just an invoice for alleged breach of contract. The remedy in law for contract breach is actual losses. You have not caused them any losses.

 

Putting up a sign saying "if you park outside a bay you agree to pay £70" is as enforceable as one saying "if you are wearing a red jumper you agree to pay £10,000"

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is just a [problem], read through the posts here and you'll soon see how it all works. You are quite safe ignoring anything that they send. You will get some threatograms of increasing nastiness is all that will happen, then they'll go away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi To All

 

Thanks so much for the advice, however the tkt was placed on the car and it says offence section 10 = Parked in an unorthourised or restricted area?.

 

My OH is giving me grief as the car is registered in her name...

 

The letters that are to follow, who will they be from??? and will the B turn up, obviously I know the situation with debt, but not Parking scams etc..

 

Can I not write to them and tell them bogg off and if so then who has a letter?

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi To All

 

Thanks so much for the advice, however the tkt was placed on the car and it says offence section 10 = Parked in an unorthourised or restricted area?.

It doesn't matter. The wording is arbitrary nonsense.

 

My OH is giving me grief as the car is registered in her name...
Point your OH in this direction, and she will be told exactly the same thing.

 

The letters that are to follow, who will they be from??? and will the B turn up, obviously I know the situation with debt, but not Parking scams etc..

 

Can I not write to them and tell them bogg off and if so then who has a letter?

All that writing to them achieves is to encourage them to send even more letters, with further demands.

 

And read the stickied posts - they explain why these unsolicited invoices should be ignored.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi and thanks for your replies, and I will ignore the demand.

 

Well how do these companies exist? and cant the law prevent them from 'plying their trade ', do they just tkt people hoping that they pay?.

 

However I would rather write to him and let him know that it is a [problem] etc etc? bit of a contradiction from above?

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

They exist because enough people pay up to make it worthwhile, and because it is not illegal to do what they do.

 

Landowners have every right to manage and control parking on their property, but they seem to go about it in a half-arsed, lazy manner.

 

Writing to them is your prerogative, but experience dictates it will get you nowhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Well how do these companies exist? and cant the law prevent them from 'plying their trade ', do they just tkt people hoping that they pay?" yes they do. the authorities don't care and have a vested interest in not informing motorists of their rights. Next thing you know people would be fighting more council PCNS "However I would rather write to him and let him know that it is a [problem] etc etc? bit of a contradiction from above?" DON'T. The [problematic] already know they are [problematic], thats why they are in this business !! If you write they will just look at you as 'hooked' and send even more rubbish in the hope that you fold. They prey on the unknowing and weak and responding to them makes them believe you may fold under the weight of all the rubbish they send.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My OH is giving me grief as the car is registered in her name...

 

 

Even better!

 

The scamsters can only obtain the RKs details from the DVLA and as the your OH wasn't even driving, then they wil be writing (pointlessly) to the wrong person. Only the driver could ever possibly have entered into the "contract" when they parked, and therefore only the driver can be taken to court for this "breech". As they don't even know who was driving, and the RK is under no obligation to tell them, then they will be trying to take the wrong person to court and will fail.

 

They would fail for lots of other reasons too but this one is pretty cast iron. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even better!

 

The scamsters can only obtain the RKs details from the DVLA and as the your OH wasn't even driving, then they wil be writing (pointlessly) to the wrong person. Only the driver could ever possibly have entered into the "contract" when they parked, and therefore only the driver can be taken to court for this "breech". As they don't even know who was driving, and the RK is under no obligation to tell them, then they will be trying to take the wrong person to court and will fail.

 

They would fail for lots of other reasons too but this one is pretty cast iron. :)

 

Hey Crem they got me in the galleries shopping centre.All of the replys are very informative, nevertheless confusing, but I shall heed your advice and await their onslaught.

 

Cheers

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got my one and only PPC scamvoice in the Galleries also about June '08. It was Hadrian operating at the time I think. I didn't even get a 1st letter off them following their useless "PCN" so haven't had the fun of collecting their rubbish. Not that I ever intended giving them any money. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

.All of the replys are very informative, nevertheless confusing, but I shall heed your advice and await their onslaught.

Cheers

Mr W

What is confusing about 'ignore everything'?

Don't take them too seriously they rely on people panicking and paying, don't fall for it.

No chance of a bailiff turning up whatsoever.

regards

Please remember our troops, fighting and dying in our name. God protect them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the replys are very informative, nevertheless confusing, but I shall heed your advice and await their onslaught.

Its simples really. This useful guide does a nice job of explaining some of the basic legalities:

 

FAQs - Private Parking Companies/Charges (everything you need to know)

 

All that said ignoring is the best policy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They cannot send baliffs until they have taken it to court and won and neither can they touch your credit file and PPC's in general do not do court as it is not cost effective to lose.

 

PPC's specialise in deception, lying and mugging and nothing else so do not believe anything they send and do not reply to any of it.

 

Only thing that would need attention are properly served court documents complete with claim number and court seal. They are known to send out fake ones to try and hoodwink the unwary.

 

You will receive around three maybe four from the ppc gradually increasing in amount, followed by one or two from their Debt Collectors (PPC in disguise) followed by a couple from their solicitors warning of impending court action (also the PPC) followed by maybe a phone call or two. All are designed to look official and frighten you into paying.

 

Ignore all is the best appraoch and works well - read through the forum - and also from personal experience. Even when invited to take the matter to court they still refuse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Real

 

Ignore them???? Mmmm I'd rather not? it says CIVIL PARKING CHARGE NOTICE.

 

And I have never defended a charge for parking before, so I am a bit nervous.

 

Mr W

 

It also says OXO on buses but you dont buy them from a bus.

Just listen to what you are being told, and ger on with your life.

These comics have got you where they want you, and you are falling for it big style.

Do not contact, do not pay, and do not fall for thier letters as they are just words on a bit of paper, which have no standing in law......

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...