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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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192.com people finder


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anyone had this email from 192.com?

 

The government is currently reviewing the future of the edited Electoral Roll, an essential database for finding people in the UK.

 

We all need to take action now to keep the national resource in the public domain. Can you spare 5 minutes to tell us your views on the edited Electoral Roll?

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My cynical view is that the govt will then simply sell the full version.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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My cynical view is that the govt will then simply sell the full version.

 

They can't do that, there are many people who's lives could be put in danger by the disclosure of this information. Also there are many legitimate reasons why people may not want to be found. Anybody who wants people to know where they are would have already told them.

 

I think this kind of thing should be left to the Sally Army, the Jeremy Kyle show and Trisha. At least these people would respect your privicy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

They say they have an audit trail which they can use to track anybody who accessed you details but what about those that buy the cd example I buy the cd a couple of month later decide to sell off all my stuff at a carboot sale some guy I don't know buy the cd for 50p then use the info on it to make up a lot of false IDs for his terrorist friends he got all the relevant info DOB place of birth mothers maiden name address etc how do the find HIM he aint on their audit trail. On a side note I remember a similar cd being given a way free on the cover of a popular monthly PC mag a couple of years a go that anybody could buy from any newsagent where is the audit trail there.

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Couple of snippets/points in no particular order.

 

I bought a copy of the CD ROM (Infodisk 2000) some 10 years ago - no checks on my bona fides and as described, free access to all. No ID furnished to buy.

 

If my memory serves me correctly when the late Jill Dando was brutally murdered, it turned out her home address had been searched prior. See here:- JILL DANDO INVESTIGATION

 

My personal details (Not paid for) show I live at an address with my wife (Correct), the house we moved out of 7 years ago and have owned 4 houses since and apparently my old neighbour and his wife lived there as well, a serving Police Officer? Now I know that my wife has a 'thing' about men in uniform, I am now thinking that perhaps I need to have a quiet word with Mrs Helford! (Having said that his wife is a nurse! Lol)

Edited by Helford
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I have no problem with 192.com republishing information they source from third parties. The real issue is that the ICO allows disclosure rights in perpetuity, so if you provide your details to one firm and do not express a wish your details be kept private (even assuming they ask you in the first place), it is SOLD on without any restriction, to a list aggregator, who sells it on to.... you get the picture.

 

Think of the grain of rice on one chess square, doubling on the next and the next - you'll see how quickly things get out of control. How do you stop this? You don't. Like King Canute trying to hold back the tide - you have to request removal from each database YOU identify, and you're going to miss some.

 

It will need the ICO to rule that data provided can only be used for EACH explicit use and no other. As for the CRA's they get FULL access to the unedited Electoral Roll, as will their clients searching who will get the details confirmed. (Correcting a message way back up the thread) Council are required to sell the full register to CRAs, anyone else gets the edited one.

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All it needs is a opt out clause for any information held by institutions, as long as you are made aware that it could effect credit etc. What the big deal.

Its down to this careless regard that identity fraud is so wide spread.

 

Should be the same for individuals to choose which CRA to use or if any at all. I personally do not see the need for three. When you apply for a loan or credit it should be the consumer who chooses which CRA they supply there information to.

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Consumer choice? :)

 

There's no need for three - but if there was only one, we would have 'Big Brother' and a private firm controlling all our personal data and whist we cannot do anything about it, it sounds better that there are 'a few'.

 

You also forget, when the Editied Electoral Roll was first promoted, ONLY the full register would be used for the intended purpose, voting. The CRA's complained with two concerns, (a) those who opted out may be denied credit (b) fraud prevention would be compromised as the linking of addresses would considerably more difficult.

 

Guess what happened? The Govt of the day agreed, and gave the CRAs an exemption that means they get the full register. Clever eh?!

 

As for wanting to decide which CRA handles your data - what about your right to ensure NO CRA handles your data. Horse and Stable door come to mind.

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I haven't got a problem with three or thirty CRA I just want the choice of who if any process my data. As long as consumers are aware of the risks involved if I want to opt out of the electoral role and credit is harder to obtain thats my concern.

As for fraud prevention why is it in the hands of a private company anyway?

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As for fraud prevention why is it in the hands of a private company anyway?

 

Because a firm saw the need (originally for its own purposes, of catalogue sales) and was on a roll. Followed by the Govt need to find someone who will offer services at no cost to the taxpayer!

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ey up!

a friend rang me the other night to tell me he had looked up his pesonal info on 192.com and was agast at what was listed there.

i have refered him to this site to obtain a sect 10 form and send it off to 192.com people finder site and get his data removed.

Please keep telling your friends and family to check their data held and sold by this site.

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Surley 192. like the CRAs must be put in their places.

It should always be the person "OPT-OUT" unless stated i want to OPT IN??

 

 

Like with my post dealing with CRAs http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/credit-reference-agencies/250771-storing-data-6-years.html

 

I think all these data companies need to be held to account.

 

where is privacy? Where is choice?

 

The sooner people like CRAs and the likes of 192 are hauld before a court the better.....

 

just a mad rant lol

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How are the CRA's 'put in their place'? Quite the opposite.

 

As for taking 192 to court - what have they done that is in breach of the Acts? It would be like you complaining the it is Google's fault for making available that story of your outer Mongolian indiscretion, yet it was the Katmandu Herald that actually published it. 192 is still an aggregated of information in the public domain. The data is still there whether they link to it or not, so wouldn't the better option to remove the source of the problem?

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I don't have a problem with Companies House. That register in some ways protects the consumer and makes directors accountable for the activities of their businesses. If a director is concerned about disclosure of their home address there is a mechanism to allow this to be hidden, for example if you are a director of a loathed DCA lol.

 

What I do object to though is parasitic companies like ICD publishing ltd (192.com) milking the public databases for their own benefit with total disregard to an individual's privacy or safety.

 

The other thing that I find disgusting is their cynical campaign to scrap the phone book on the grounds that it is environmentally damaging. What they are really trying to do is kill the free competition and get a monopoly on the data industry.

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So because a data collector does not put in place measures to prevent the re-use if its data, it is all the fault of 192, who pay for access due to their ability to re-sell? What of the DVLA that happily will disclose your personal details, permitted under statute for £2.50 or so? I think your angst is misdirected.

 

Secondly, why do you feel it is 'disgusting' that 192 want to end the publishing of paper directories? Is is true, the bulk of them are never looked at, I must have had 200Kg of directories delivered over the last 10 years and never looked at one of them - going online (for free) in every case.

 

There are far more relevant thing to vent your disgust at - like reverse-charge texts with no opt out, Reverse 0800 calls that require a mortgage to pay for should someone (other than the bill payer) answer and accept the call. Of course 192 don't want paper directories, and in much the same was as any other commercial entity wishes to ensure the take-up of their product or service. This is what commerce is.

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So because a data collector does not put in place measures to prevent the re-use if its data, it is all the fault of 192, who pay for access due to their ability to re-sell? What of the DVLA that happily will disclose your personal details, permitted under statute for £2.50 or so? I think your angst is misdirected.

 

Secondly, why do you feel it is 'disgusting' that 192 want to end the publishing of paper directories? Is is true, the bulk of them are never looked at, I must have had 200Kg of directories delivered over the last 10 years and never looked at one of them - going online (for free) in every case.

 

There are far more relevant thing to vent your disgust at - like reverse-charge texts with no opt out, Reverse 0800 calls that require a mortgage to pay for should someone (other than the bill payer) answer and accept the call. Of course 192 don't want paper directories, and in much the same was as any other commercial entity wishes to ensure the take-up of their product or service. This is what commerce is.

 

I agree re DVLA. Like the electoral roll it is a compulsory database that one has to be on and the government should not sell it. With regards to scrapping the phone book, you may not use it, but I do. My 90 year-old grandmother certainly does. I recycle the old one and the last time I looked it was made from recycled materials anyway.

 

I have a dictionary in my house which I refer to on occasion to check spelling or grammar. It is not a bad thing because I do not use it every day. Perhaps if more of us used one, more of what one says would make sense.:)

 

As for texts, that has nothing to do with this thread.

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Texts? The issue was being liable for something you have no control over.

 

Your dictionary will rarely (if ever) become inaccurate due to due to the passage of time. A phone directory is inaccurate from the day it is compiled, and before it is printed. Once printed, it becomes even more inaccurate, and increasingly so as time goes on.

 

The same cannot be said for the online versions - whether you look on the BT site, or that of 192.com. Both of which remain free.

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The information 192.com hold on me is at least 3 years out of date, maybe more. They have me as living at a house that no longer exists with a telephone number that is unobtainable, the people that are supposed to be living with me are not even on this continent, and according to them no one lives at my present address. I would rather not give them my correct details in order to get the incorrect one removed. Besides they won't be getting much repeat business giving out incoerrect details, chances are people will be demanding their money back.

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You point being? The phone number is that on the OSIS database (a BT company). The folk living with you were no doubt there at the time with the info taken from the local council. I do believe they make more money from the historical data they hold... pretty much like the CRA's

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How are the CRA's 'put in their place'? Quite the opposite.

 

As for taking 192 to court - what have they done that is in breach of the Acts? It would be like you complaining the it is Google's fault for making available that story of your outer Mongolian indiscretion, yet it was the Katmandu Herald that actually published it. 192 is still an aggregated of information in the public domain. The data is still there whether they link to it or not, so wouldn't the better option to remove the source of the problem?

 

 

Sorry. I meant it to be. I think they should all be put in their places.

And i think the default should be , we have opted out... unless specifically requested opt in.

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