Apex chasing RBS and Clydesdale debts

[comebackjimmy]

Hi

 

On the subject of the Direct Debit I feel this should be cancelled for two reasons:

 

1. It is possible they will try to take more and as a general principle no DCA should ever be given this opportunity. It just encourages them.

 

2. Depending upon the bank concerned would they charge the account holder for returning an unpaid Direct Debit?

[Bazooka Boo]

On the subject of the Direct Debit I feel this should be cancelled for two reasons:

 

No need read previous post;http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/233051-apex-credit-management.html#post2583491

[Emeraldson82]

Happy New Year all.

 

So I cancelled all payments to Apex and sent the account in dispute letters to them after the 12+2 working days expired. They sent me a letter telling me they are still trying to get a hold of the Clydesdale credit card credit agreement.

 

But they sent me this with regards to the RBS loan:

 

 

They are adamant that it's supposed to be me that makes the request to RBS and not them. Any suggestions what my next step should be?

 

Thanks in advance guys.

[luckysandpiper]

This is exactly the response I got from Apex in respect of a Barclaycard debt. It seems to come down to the difference between a 'simple' assignment, and an 'absolute' assignment, but as yet I have been unable to secure a definitive conclusion as to what is meant by these terms. So far, my efforts have taken me to Trading Standards, and LACORS, from whom I still await a reply. You can read of my experiences on my thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/190492-1st-credit-finance-reigate.html

 

LSP

[babybear39]

Complete BS!

[Emeraldson82]

Hi guys. Does this sound okay as a reply to the above letter?

 

"Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of 24th December 2009, the contents of which have been noted.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that:

 

“If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.”

You have twice told me in writing that you feel it is not your duty to obtain an enforceable credit agreement in relation to the above account. According to the CCA 1974 it is your duty.

 

If you do not hold an enforceable credit agreement in relation to the debt you claim I owe then I must question whether or not you have a legal right to pursue payment from me at all.

 

All of the correspondence you have sent me has been noted and as I stated in my previous letter to you I will now be informing the OFT and the DBSG/CSA of your position on this matter.

 

 

If you wish to reply to me on this matter do so only in writing.

 

Yours faithfully"

[babybear39]

Put a pragraph about them failing to adhere to the UCPD and the CPUTR 2008 whish is LAW not guidlines

[Bazooka Boo]

And don't forget to wish them a Happy new year!

 

IMHO once you have sent them that, I wouldn't entertain them in a game of letter tennis anymore. Court is where I would want to go next, get it thrown out and counter claim the morons for their classic ineptitude.

[babybear39]

Moron = carrot in Welsh

[Bazooka Boo]

Carrot=Moron in English..

[Emeraldson82]

Hi everybody.

 

Finally got the reply to the CCA request for the Clydesdale cerdit card. I've had to scan it in fairly high resolution due to the shockingly bad photocopying job they did on it so apologies for the size. Here it is:

 

 

Sorry if it's difficult to make out but I have the hard copy and it's not much easier to read to be honest.

 

It makes reference to the terms and conditions but I don't see any T&C's present on this page. Any advice you guys have would be most welcome.

[babybear39]

Did they send the T & Cs as a seperate copy document?

[Emeraldson82]

No babybear. Just that one-sided, photocopied sheet.

[Emeraldson82]

So as it stands, can they enforce it?

[babybear39]

IMO no, but I stand to be corrected.

[Bazooka Boo]

I would second that, a good effort, but not an enforceable CCA;

It is a statutory requirement that CCA-regulated agreements should be in writing and signed by the borrower and that they contain the following information:

The amount of credit (or credit limit)

The credit charges

The rate of interest and whether it will vary throughout the course of the agreement

A notice of cancellation (if it is a cancellable agreement)

Details of the repayment schedule

If the agreement is not in accordance with the above requirements then it is unenforceable.

A credit agreement should also include the following (although if it doesn't then permission from the court will be required to enforce it):

A prominent heading describing the type of agreement

Names and addresses of the lender and borrower along with a signature box

Details of any security offered for the loan

Description of goods supplied if any

Cash price of goods or services

Amount of deposit

Annual Percentage Rate (APR)

However, be warned that although the old laws will apply to current credit agreements, the consumer credit rules change from April 6th 2007. From then on, with any new contract, it'll be up to the courts to decide whether your particular credit agreement is unenforceable. Even if the contract you've signed contains incorrect details, a judge may feel that you knew perfectly well what you were agreeing to!

 

And remind them of their obligations.

Further to your recent letter, I must again advise you of the following. Further to my request for a copy of the signed CCA you supplied me with a document that was not legible and therefore does not comply with the following regulations:-

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

 

I am also of the opinion that the copy of the agreement, whilst illegible, also does not comply with the conditions set out by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.61.(1) which states that an agreement must contain certain prescribed terms, the Consumer Credit Act ( Agreements) Regulations 1983 s.6 sets out how these terms should be contained with in one single document and if not, is not enforceable by the court Consumer credit Act 1974 s.127(3) , recent case law Wilson V Hurstanger Neutral Citation Number: [2007] EWCA Civ 299.

Until I receive a clear, legible copy of the alleged CCA, this account remains in dispute and no further action can be taken.

 

You can send them this also:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[Emeraldson82]

Hi again guys.

 

So I sent off the letter containing all the advice you guys gave. This was their reply:

 

 

They also attatched and resent the shoddy copy of the agreement and highligted this part:

 

 

I think they're claiming that this box makes the agreement enforcable because it states I will recieve details on how to cancel by post. But if I understand the CCA correctly shouldn't the cancelation details be on the same page as my signature?

[Bazooka Boo]

I wouldn't worry too much about that at the minute, they failed to supply you with an enforceable CCA in the first place, ie. no prescribed T&C's.

 

I wouldn't continue playing letter tennis with them, if they are that inept that they cannot see why the account is in dispute, I wouldn't show them!

 

Just file that away along with the rest of the drivel they have sent, and wait for them to pass it on, either to the OC or to another DCA which would then breach all sorts of guidelines.

 

Fire off a formal complaint about their unethical practices

to these guys who their a member off: Welcome to the CSA Consumers

[angel_1]

hiya all

 

thanks for the links, i may have to apply for a job there looks a lovely building LMBO

 

also they do look nice those phone negotiators pity they cant get through to me as i have truecall, oh dear me they get cut off after so many rings they hear and i dont :-D

 

now being threatened with the doorstep collection do they actually turn up?

 

anyway have a postive weekend all keep happy

 

laters angel x

[luckysandpiper]

hiya all

 

 

now being threatened with the doorstep collection do they actually turn up?

 

anyway have a postive weekend all keep happy

 

laters angel x

 

Yes they do, at times, but it is against OFT guidelines and unless you have invited them to call, you are within your rights to treat them as trespassers, and politely & firmly ask them to leave. Should they refuse, phone the local police.

 

LSP