Tesco Loan (Incasso)

[FightToTheEnd]

Hi there - 1st post so please be gentle if I do anything wrong!

 

I took out a (£10k+) loan with Tesco in Nov 08 and due to reducing workload etc was unable to pay from June 2009.

 

I have tried to sort this out with a self-managed DMP until I can source more/better paid work but this isn't happening just yet! (in fact work is getting harder to find!)

 

Anyway, had several letters etc from Tesco and then received a default notice in August at which time the account was passed to Triton.

 

I have made 2 or 3 payments to Triton depsite them pretty much ignoring my letters.

 

I had a letter from Incasso on 27th October giveing me 14 days to either pay in full or make an arrangement; I wrote them giving them a copy of my offer letter to Triton and a further cheque which they have cashed.

 

On Saturday (14 Nov) I received a CC claim form (Northampton)!!

 

So, I assume they will continue the process and try and obtain a charging order and although I can live with a CCJ I would really like to avoid the CO. We do have a little bit of equity in our house but not very much. We also have a young daughter so I doubt they would manage to force a sale?

 

As the loan is post April 2007 and also quite recent I feel there is little point in going down the CCA or SAR route?

 

To be honest I accept I owe the debt and although I am a little dissappointed at the speed they have taken to choose legal action I can quite understand it! So, I understand that if I admit the claim on the CCJ it will be far harder to avoid the charging order later on?

 

How can I defend the claim when I know I owe the amount?

 

I have a couple of thoughts and would appreciate some help.

 

1. The default notice shows the total amount due (over the full term) and then offers a rebate in interest in line with a redemption statement. The CC claim form is for the total amount due (ie 4 years interest front loaded on the amount borrowed) - is this correct.

 

2. The total amount claimed is wrong as a couple of cheques sent to Triton (and have been cleared by my bank) have been missed, so the balance is slightly overstated.

 

All advise gratefully received............

[Pipster2797]

You need to go online and acknowledge the case and it will thena llow you 33 days to submit a defence.

 

Have you got a copy of the Default Notice you can post up on here so people can have a look?

 

Also can you post up the POC?

 

There may be charges on the account, the DN may be defective so worth while defending and getting a CPR letter off to them asking for info. if you can post up the DN and the POC we can take it from there

[FightToTheEnd]

Thanks Pipster,

 

The POC reads:

 

"The claimants claim is in respect of monies due persuant to an account maintained with the claimant.

 

and the amount the claimant claims:

 

£15,xxx.xx"

 

Default notice as follows:

Edited January 24, 2010 by FightToTheEnd
remove DN

[Pipster2797]

Is there a date they sent the letter? I cant see one

[FightToTheEnd]

Sorry, it's on the back of the form and was dated 1st August. I also realise now that I should have kept the envelope but sadly I didn't.

[Pipster2797]

1st Aug was a Saturday so giving 2 working days for it to be served would be weds 4th so they have allowed 14 days to remedy the breach. This is if they sent it first class which they will claim they sent it first class.

 

The CCA is prob ok if it was taken out in 2008. You need to get a CPR letter off to ask for info as they may not have a copy of the DN as alot of lenders dont keep them. With my case with NR they have on the POC when it was sent and the date of the remedy they havent got that on yours.

 

You need to get a CPR letter sent off. I'll post one up in a moment. There maybe charges on the account

[Pipster2797]

Right get this sent off tomorrow by recorded delivery so you have proof they get incase they ignore it.

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

Their POC seems vague to me and doesnt have alot down. They may not have the DN on file. Its up to them to prove they sent it and what was in it. Don't give up until you explored all avenues.

 

Post up when you have a reply and we can look at it again. In the meantime other people may be able to help too

 

Also try and do alot of reading of other threads, do a search and you will prob find someone in the same boat as yourself

[FightToTheEnd]

Thanks for your help Pipster,

 

I doubt there are any charges as the claim is for the same amount that Tesco were chasing when I first missed a payment (less the 2 cheques sent to Triton which I mentioned)

[FightToTheEnd]

Just trying to acknowledge service - do I defend all the claim or some of it?

 

If it turns out that all is correct with the claim can I accept the claim at a later date and ask for payment terms with no additional penalty?

[MandM]

Hang in there Fight. It's surprising what comes out during these processes and the support you'll find on CAG will certainly put you more in control of the outcome then you'll believe at this stage. Still a 'newbie' myself but learnt sooooo much on here and still learning.

 

Good luck with this and i'm also subscibing to this thread and hope to help at some stage.

 

I also started on here after defaulting on a loan (post 07) but it's made me start looking at everything else too.

 

Very best of luck and i'll be watching with interest.

 

M

Edited November 15, 2009 by MandM
Spelt Fights name wrong - how rude lol

[MandM]

Defend all. All will come clearer later when the legal bods on here have seen your paper work.

Some very early advice I had on here are that there are only 3 rules.

1. Make them prove you owe the money.

2. Make them prove you owe the money

and

3. Make them prove you owe the money

 

m

[FightToTheEnd]

Thanks Guys - I'll get the letter sent tomorrow!

[Pipster2797]

Some good advice from MandM, thats exactly what I was getting at make them prove that you owe the money and they have fully followed the law they have to. Sending out the default notice, giving you the right time to rectify it. Making sure the credit agreement is compliant.

 

The Consumer Credit Act is there to protect the consumer. i.e. you

 

I'm going against N.Rock for a loan taken out in Jan 09 that apart from a defective DN I didn't think I had a chance of winning. I requested info from a CPR 18 request and now they are asking to change the POC to what only seems to me as an error on their parts but helps me out. Have a read of the thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/226180-pipster-n-rock-unsec.html

 

Like MandM I'm a bit of a newbie too with it but because I've been dealing with my own cases I've been reading alot of threads to help me, I have learnt so much of how how these debt collection agencies and lenders act against people like you and I.

 

You will also get advice from people who know alot more than me but until you have all the info they will say to ask for it first to have all the facts of what Tesco are going to use against you.

 

Once we have all the info we can all look at what will be the best way forward for you.

[FightToTheEnd]

Just looking over the default notice again and I see it says they require the net amount (ie £12K) to be paid, by court order if neccessary. The CC claim if for the total amount? Does this make it defective?

[MandM]

Just looking over the default notice again and I see it says they require the net amount (ie £12K) to be paid, by court order if neccessary. The CC claim if for the total amount? Does this make it defective?

 

Not sure. I think your loan is structured differently to mine. I'm sure someone knowledgeable on DNs will be along soon to comment.

 

M

[FightToTheEnd]

anyone got any thoughts re the DN and the amount claimed being different?

[MandM]

bump

[FightToTheEnd]

bumpity bump.

[MandM]

anyone got any thoughts re the DN and the amount claimed being different?

 

Bump. I'm not clear enough on DNs to answer with confidence. Any thoughts anyone?

M

[FightToTheEnd]

Had a reply, not that it's particularly interesting but I suspect they may go over the 14 days to respond? I take it I would submit the standard "embarresed" defence if this happens?

 

Would still appreciate thought on the differing amounts on claim and DN if anyone knows please?

 

[MandM]

Hi Flight,

 

Had a reply, not that it's particularly interesting but I suspect they may go over the 14 days to respond? I take it I would submit the standard "embarresed" defence if this happens? YES and make sure it's on time.

 

Would still appreciate thought on the differing amounts on claim and DN if anyone knows please?

 

 

I too wasn't getting a lot of attention on my DN so in the end I posted it on a thread discussing DNs and got the info I needed which was this one (i think) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html . Also, this one looks pretty informative.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/196312-invalid-default-notices.html

 

One of the best CAGerss on here that i've come across on DNs is Undercover-Elsa who is very up to speed it seems so may be worth grabbing her attention if you can

 

M

[FightToTheEnd]

Thanks M for your support - it is appreciated.

 

I'll post something in the thread you mention later.

[FightToTheEnd]

Hello again!

 

Well CPR18 sent to Incasso who acknowledged it and said they had forwarded to thier client to respond. Nothing further received so now time to file an embarassed defense.

 

Do I also make note at this point that I feel the DN is faulty (not enough time) or do I leave this for an ammended defence once I get the requested info?

[MandM]

Do I also make note at this point that I feel the DN is faulty (not enough time) or do I leave this for an ammended defence once I get the requested info?

 

I'd save that for the defence, will be interesting to see what they produce in the meantime

 

M

[FightToTheEnd]

Hmm, thats what I was thinking! Also would hate to give them the chance to "find" their postal records!