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The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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Disciplinary hearing for gross misconduct (inappropriate email)


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Hi there,

 

I'm seeking some advice for my husband who faces a disciplinary hearing today in his work in relation to gross misconduct.

 

He has worked for this well known bank for 5 years now and has an unblemished record. I would even go as far to say that he is extremely well thought of.

 

Ok the background of the hearing is this: back in July a colleague of my husband's sent on a forwarded email that contained some rather inappropriate content and this person had already been warned about their email use and had been warned that she was going to be monitored as a result. Anyhow, my husband, without even reading the email, pressed Control and F (to forward) and sent it onto my email address (used by us both) and to his 2 best friends. Then just 3 weeks ago, the girl that originally received the email and forwarded it on was informed that she was facing disciplinary action. After a hearing she was suspended indefinitely until a full investigation could be carried out. It appears that as part of this investigation they checked who received this email and who forwarded it on. My husband was called into a meeting just last Thursday for a "fact finding" exercise, where he was asked about the email. He admitted that he forwarded it (obviously since they knew that anyway!) but was honestly not aware of the content (he didn't even know the content until he checked it after this girl was suspended).

 

He's really really upset by it and thinks he's messed everything up for us - me, him and our 17 month old daughter - and doesn't know what to do. I'm currently unemployed due to redundancy (ironically made redundant in July) so that would put us in a very precarious financial situation.

 

Could anyone provide any advice as to what he could do so that he wouldn't be sacked? Or is that even a possibility?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Oh and the company do have a clear internet/emails policy.

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I would write a statement stating what happened. That the e-mail wasn't even opened. That on the face of it, it looks bad. That he regrets passing it on, that to that point he has been an excellent employee. This is totally out of character and it will never happen again. Print off a copy for all the people in the meeting. He just needs to say 'could they spend a couple of minutes reading his statement'.

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This bank did get rid of a few people a few months back, but they met their quota through voluntary redundancies.

 

This original email was back in July but they monitored her emails for 3 months as a result. It now seems that they're going back through all the inappropriate ones and finding out if any of the people that received them forwarded them on. My husband found out today that there a further 2 people who have a hearing today as well as someone tomorrow.

 

A colleague of his, who is currently on holiday, mentioned to him last night that he thinks he'll be facing the same thing when he comes back because he forwarded on this original email too.

 

I don't know if in the grand scheme of things they'll dismiss 6 people (including the original girl), or whether they'll just give them all final warnings? Having read through this email/internet policy it does state can "normally lead to dismissal but can just be a final warning". I'm just trying to fathom out what he could do so that he only gets the latter. I like the statement idea though thanks, I'll mention that one to him. The hearing's not until 3pm so he would have time.

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I would go with the statement, reason being is that when your in the meeting the mind can go blank. When you leave the meeting, you wish you said something you couldn't remember at the time.

Good Luck. I'm sure he'll be fine.

Don't forget he has the right to appeal. Don't take it as done and dusted.

They should have carried out thier investigations in July not 3 months later. That is unacceptable.

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My husband did the statement as you suggested and he mentioned that the manager and HR rep there seemed quite impressed by it.

 

Unfortunately he won't find out the outcome for another few days but he was told that there would be 1 of 4 outcomes:

 

1. No action taken

2. A written warning

3. A final warning

4. Dismissal

 

He'll be told either face to face or via a letter so fingers crossed it's one of the first 2, or at an absolute worse, the 3rd.

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lynniethepooh84,

 

Lets hope it's 1 and that they realise they have a good employee with lots to offer, an error of judgement shouldn't result in any action, just a talking too. I'll be crossing my fingers too. Let us know how it goes. Then we can make further suggestions.

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I have thing to add, which doesn't appear to have been covered:

 

The fact that your husband did not open the email before forwarding it may not do his case any good. It could have the reverse effect of further repercussions. This is assuming you and his friends whom he forwarded the email to, did not work for the bank at the time the email was forwarded.

 

The bank may be concerned from a security point of view, why your husband forwarded an email received from a colleague at the bank, without reading the content to three people who do not work for the bank (you, and his two best friends), and wonder how could he have been certain that the email did not contain information which was of a sensitive nature, not intended to be read by the public if he had not opened it?

 

If the bank have not already covered this angle, I would be prepared for it.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

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lynniethepooh84,

 

Lets hope it's 1 and that they realise they have a good employee with lots to offer, an error of judgement shouldn't result in any action, just a talking too. I'll be crossing my fingers too. Let us know how it goes. Then we can make further suggestions.

 

There has still been no decision yet but my husband has phoned me with some new information that has come to light. A girl from another team had her disciplinary this morning. She took all the disciplinary procedure notes home with her, as well as the copy of the internet/email policy that she had signed. Her dad pointed out to her that the policy was dated August 2009 and this said incident occurred in July. He encouraged her to challenge that at the meeting and ask them to provide a copy of an earlier signed policy, if there was one. She and my husband don't believe they have signed one before. They've both went through their signed contracts and this is also not mentioned in there. Her meeting ended up being adjourned as a result of this.

 

I know it's entirely besides the point and it's just a loophole because both admit that they forwarded on the email, but what would the position be if there is not a signed copy of the policy, i.e. stating that they would comply with it?

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I have thing to add, which doesn't appear to have been covered:

 

The fact that your husband did not open the email before forwarding it may not do his case any good. It could have the reverse effect of further repercussions. This is assuming you and his friends whom he forwarded the email to, did not work for the bank at the time the email was forwarded.

 

The bank may be concerned from a security point of view, why your husband forwarded an email received from a colleague at the bank, without reading the content to three people who do not work for the bank (you, and his two best friends), and wonder how could he have been certain that the email did not contain information which was of a sensitive nature, not intended to be read by the public if he had not opened it?

 

If the bank have not already covered this angle, I would be prepared for it.

 

Nope nothing like that at all was asked at the disciplinary at all to be honest, even though he was fully expecting it. He just said it was more a matter of, "are you aware of the company's internet/email policy, of which you have a signed copy of (dated August 2009!)?". He said that he was and then handed over his statement that reiterated that it was out of character for him and that if he had more time he would have read the email and discarded it, and then just apologised for it and said it would never EVER happen again. They said they had noticed when going through his email activity that he only ever sent work related emails so agreed that it was out of character. Then it ended with them saying he'd be notified of the decision within a few days. I don't really know what to take from it.

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If your not happy with the Decision Appeal, as I said, something that happened in July is being investigated now, policy dated August 2009.

Three months later. Best to see what they say, I think he will be fine.

To investigate something like this should only take a week at best, not three months. Thats why it doesn't sound right to me.

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There has still been no decision yet but my husband has phoned me with some new information that has come to light. A girl from another team had her disciplinary this morning. She took all the disciplinary procedure notes home with her, as well as the copy of the internet/email policy that she had signed. Her dad pointed out to her that the policy was dated August 2009 and this said incident occurred in July. He encouraged her to challenge that at the meeting and ask them to provide a copy of an earlier signed policy, if there was one. She and my husband don't believe they have signed one before. They've both went through their signed contracts and this is also not mentioned in there. Her meeting ended up being adjourned as a result of this.

 

I know it's entirely besides the point and it's just a loophole because both admit that they forwarded on the email, but what would the position be if there is not a signed copy of the policy, i.e. stating that they would comply with it?

 

 

This is actually quite good because they cannot apply policies retrospectively. So, I would just hold onto this information for the appeal. If the disciplinary decision is not too severe, I would keep quiet, but if the its a dismissal, I would then bring up this particular issue.

 

 

Regarding the issue of security, which they haven't yet raised, your husband could always argue that (as I did, successfully) he was quite aware that the company had very good anti-virus products protecting the system, he nbelieved it to be amongst the best in the world. Therefore the issue of security was not really a major concern (the email had been scanned and approved when it entered the company system so your husband was pretty confident that it was virus free when he forwarded it.

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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This is actually quite good because they cannot apply policies retrospectively. So, I would just hold onto this information for the appeal. If the disciplinary decision is not too severe, I would keep quiet, but if the its a dismissal, I would then bring up this particular issue.

 

 

Regarding the issue of security, which they haven't yet raised, your husband could always argue that (as I did, successfully) he was quite aware that the company had very good anti-virus products protecting the system, he nbelieved it to be amongst the best in the world. Therefore the issue of security was not really a major concern (the email had been scanned and approved when it entered the company system so your husband was pretty confident that it was virus free when he forwarded it.

 

 

To the 1st para

Agreed but it will depend on the content of the email. If it was grossly offensive by any reasonable standard then it's still a disciplinary offence & dependant on how offensive will determine how serious its viewed by the employer.

 

Without knowing the nature of the content its difficult to advise but I would not rely on the retrospective argument as they will simply say as an adult he should have known better without the need to sign a document

 

Last para

This would be the best defence you didn't know nor care as evidenced by your not opening it & because you assumed with justification that the email was sanctioned

Edited by JonCris
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Thanks rebel and monkeychicken. I definitely agree with you now rebel that something doesn't add up with all this. I hope the fact that someone else facing the same disciplinary action has pointed this anomaly out, then everyone might benefit as a result.

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To the 1st para

Agreed but it will depend on the content of the email. If it was grossly offensive by any reasonable standard then it's still a disciplinary offence & dependant on how offensive will determine how serious its viewed by the employer.

 

Without knowing the nature of the content its difficult to advise but I would not rely on the retrospective argument as they will simply say as an adult he should have known better without the need to sign a document

 

Last para

This would be the best defence you didn't know nor care as evidenced by your not opening it & because you assumed with justification that the email was sanctioned

 

Sorry must have cross posted with you!

 

Yeah definitely not debating that at all, he should have read it before passing it on (he definitely wouldn't have if he did). What I am confused by though is the fact that they've then brought this policy out after the event and got everyone to sign it, and are then using it to enforce disciplinary action? It just sounds not right to me at all now. Additionally if they were going to say "they should have known better anyway", why would they adjourn this other girls disciplinary after her bringing this matter up? They had the most senior of HR people there, as well as the senior manager for the entire area so they should have known to argue that point surely?

 

Sorry just finding it all rather confusing and worrying!

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Thanks rebel and monkeychicken. I definitely agree with you now rebel that something doesn't add up with all this. I hope the fact that someone else facing the same disciplinary action has pointed this anomaly out, then everyone might benefit as a result.

 

I would suggest the reason something does not add up is they looked into the matter and found many people were misusing the email system. The reason they appear to be hesitant is because they know that they would have to take action against a very large number of people and a strong defence would be that they allowed such misuse to go on, and it had become "acceptable".

 

I also forwarded one single email ever to my personal address. It was indeed grossly offensive.

 

I used to get many offensive email, but deleted them without opening them. Only once I got an email from my best mate that I had lost touch with over 15 years ago and forwarded it to my home email address.

 

They investigated my account going back six years and only found the one. My defence was that I knew that it was offensive but did not know how offensive.

 

Besides, I discovered that they made a decision not to take action against anyone 'as the matter was too widespread'. They took only me to disciplinary for 3 things with respect to the email:

 

personal use of company equipment

sending offensive emails

security issue

 

 

I established that there was a threshold of personal use accepted in the case of all other officers. Did this by showing many others used the emails for personal use regularly, whereas I only used it once in six years.

 

I established that others regularly sent racist, sexist and otherwise offensive emails without any sanctions. So there was an acceptable threshold of offensiveness that the company tolerated. They did not demonstrate I had exceeded that threshold.

 

The security issue I deal with as mentioned above.

 

They dismissed those charges (and also every single one of the thirty or so other charges)

 

My Barrister seems to think that I could get a promotion (that they had denied me in 2006) and a tidy sum in settlement, as he thinks I have an excellent case.

 

 

So dont worry. My guess is that it will be a slap on the wrist, but if it is any more, you will have recourse to the ET.

Good luck

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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Hiya, sorry just to give a quick update. My husband still hasn't heard anything, but received an email this morning - ironically - to say that he'll find out the outcome between 12:30 and 3pm. We're thinking it's because they're letting everyone know that there's such a big time frame involved.

Edited by lynniethepooh84
Daughter pressed return button before I'd finished typing up the post!
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If they have sent an email to him about whats going to happen they have probarbly sent it to everyone else that is involved.

 

I have the same polices at my work but they are very lax about it.

 

Thye have probarbly found that many many employees are in the same situation and it may just that they reiterate their policy

 

ida x

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I'm optimistic, I'm hoping for good news.:)

 

You were right to be optimistic... he 'just' got a written warning :). I know a written warning's still not particularly great on his record but compared to what could have happened it's a relieving result :D.

 

Thank you so much rebel for the statement idea. I genuinely think that helped him on the day of his disciplinary, even if not with the decision but in helping him focus his thoughts and get them down on paper so thanks again! :D

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You were right to be optimistic... he 'just' got a written warning :). I know a written warning's still not particularly great on his record but compared to what could have happened it's a relieving result :D.

 

Thank you so much rebel for the statement idea. I genuinely think that helped him on the day of his disciplinary, even if not with the decision but in helping him focus his thoughts and get them down on paper so thanks again! :D

 

 

Congrats lynnie now we can both look forward to xmas i,ll be raising a glass to CAG thats for sure

 

best wishes :D

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Congrats lynnie now we can both look forward to xmas i,ll be raising a glass to CAG thats for sure

 

best wishes :D

 

Aaaw thank you! Yep definitely :D. Now just need his payday to come along so we can do some major Christmas shopping! Hope you enjoy some quality time with your hubby while you can :).

 

Cheers and *ching ching* to CAG!

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