Confused over cca or statute barred option!

[Stressed female]

Im new to this site and have just received advice that i should request a cca from dca. I was wanderin as my debt will be 6 years old in february 2001 should i ignore dca untill then as im thinking if i send cca then i will not be able to send statute barred letter in Feb 2010 as statute barred letter clearly says the dca cannot pursue "unless u can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under section 5". so would i be giving them the written contact they talk about in statute barred letter by sending in a cca letter. Im at the stage now where Rockwell dca are threatening to take me to court, bailiffs, attatchents on properties etc etc.

 

Help would be appreciated.

[saintly_1]

When you say 6yrs old do you mean 6yrs since you incurred the debt or 6rs since you defaulted on the debt ?

[Lula]

have you sent them the "Prove it letter?

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

(Your Name) Print do not sign

[Stressed female]

From the Statement of Transaction that they sent me from original creditors. the last payment i made was February 2004

[Stressed female]

To Lulu.

I have not sent them anything as yet. im still getting over the shock. up until a few months ago this debt was showing as satisfactory with Marks & Spencers. it was due to come off in april this year as the default date said april 03 when i got an alert on my experian account i thought it was to tell me that this had been wiped off but to my horror Rockwell debt collectors had added debt as a default! is the letter you suggested as effective as the templates iv seen on here requesting cca?

[havinastella]

Bit confused here.

 

M&S defaulted you in 2003?

 

Did you make any payments after the default?

 

Rockwell CANNOT re-add a default, when did they add ththis one?

 

Jogs

[Stressed female]

I only looked at experian report beginning of 2008 which showed M&S debt as satisfactory as soon as this cleared in april 2009 rockwell put theres on as a default. and put the default date as July 2004!!!

[Stressed female]

I have not made any payments since february 2004.

[Bazooka Boo]

it was due to come off in april this year as the default date said april 03

 

Then that is exactly when the default 'should' come of your file, Six years after the date of default..just because it has been sold or bought by another DCA does not mean that they can then re-arrange the date to suit them;)

 

Do you know exactly when the last payment toward this alleged debt was made?

 

If it was pre Sept 03 and you have made no payment or acknowledgment since, then it is firmly SB.

 

You should gain a copy of the Credit Reference Agencies complaints procedure, and lodge with them a formal complaint that if the incorrect marker on your file is not removed by them then, you will report them to the ICO and seek damages, which currently stands at £1000 for every incorrect entry on your file should they insist that they are unable to remove the damaging entry.

[Stressed female]

sorry originally on my experian report it said M&S the loan amount and that it was satisfactory. i think because they had it dated april 03 i assumed it would come off in april 09. in fact it did but was replaced by the rockwell debt showing as defaulted in July 2004

according to the statement of transaction from M&S the last time i paid was feb 04. so not quite 6 years. What do you advise?

[Bazooka Boo]

OK according to M&S once they sell the debt, then their default on your CRF is marked 'satisfactory' by them but then marked as a 'default' by the pursuing DCA (rockwell)

 

I'm assuming this was a store card, Yes?

 

Or is it a Credit Card (CC)?

 

In either case a request for the CCA, to whomever is pusuing you for the 'alleged' debt now should be sent.

 

So if Rockwell, which may be the 'in -house' DCA for M&S are pusuing you for the debt (alleged) then send them the CCA

 

You might want to take a look throught his thread also for further help of CAGgers

 

 

Boo;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/195822-m-more-court-papers.html

[make them aktiv runners]

OK according to M&S once they sell the debt, then their default on your CRF is marked 'satisfactory' by them but then marked as a 'default' by the pursuing DCA (rockwell)

 

 

Boo, what is your interpretation of this?

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

Points 52 to 54 suggest there should only ever be one entry after sale.

 

1) If DCA wishes to report, record is switched to their name

2) If DCA does not wish to report, bank record is reduced to nil. In this instance, no further record shows for DCA.

 

Of course the *friendly people* can get around the above by simply switching agencies used for reporting.

[Bazooka Boo]

Will have a read later when I have a bit more time

[Stressed female]

Thanks boo. i will take a look at the thread you recommended. A bit confused by make them activ runners message, assuming that was a message to boo but not sure if it has any relevance to my situation.

[make them aktiv runners]

sorry originally on my experian report it said M&S the loan amount and that it was satisfactory. i think because they had it dated april 03 i assumed it would come off in april 09. in fact it did but was replaced by the rockwell debt showing as defaulted in July 2004

according to the statement of transaction from M&S the last time i paid was feb 04. so not quite 6 years. What do you advise?

 

I asked Boo to look into link posted by myself because there is some relevance to your situation above. Incidently I did once find something similiar on a CRA site. There should only be one record. When M & S sold it to Rockwell the creditor name should have changed from M & S to Rockwell. Rockwell cannot change a default date.

[Bazooka Boo]

Rockwell cannot change a default date.

 

Yes, you are correct in that!

I seem to remember having this discussion the other month surrounding SB debts.

 

If each time the alleged debt is sold from one DCA to the other and they change the date of the default to suit them, ie when they purchased the debt, then any debt would never become SB nor would it drop off your credit file, as the six years would keep rolling with the change of ownership.

 

So, 'IMHO' an account is defaulted 30 days after the last payment towards it, the default however may not show up on your CRF for another couple of months, but, once it does the actual date of that default can not be changed 'ever' simply because it is bought by a new DCA. (if I am wrong, then someone please put me right:))

 

If this is the case, that the default dates have been changed to suit the new owner, then a complaint to the ICO, OFT and the CRA should be made to correct this!

[MilkTrayMan]

...Im at the stage now where Rockwell dca are threatening to take me to court, bailiffs, attatchents on properties etc etc.

 

Help would be appreciated.

I'm not sure which stage U're currently at Sf, as it's been a while since U last posted.

 

If U take a look at the following Thread + also read through the legal High Court Ruling, U may find it informative re: Right to process debt details despite 'technically' NOT having a Credit Agreement as per CCA 1974...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/198059-unenforceability-cases-hold-until-58.html#post2498293

 

 

McGuffick v The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc [2009] EWHC 2386 (Comm) (06 October 2009)

 

...Please note though, that the judgement is slightly tainted cos ALL parties were aware that an Enforceable Credit Agreement existed + could have been produced.

 

Perhaps a S.A.R. to establish whether the DCA has been legally Assigned the Debt may be more appropriate rather than a CCA 1974 Request?

 

 

[Bigdebtor]

Im new to this site and have just received advice that i should request a cca from dca. I was wanderin as my debt will be 6 years old in february 2001 should i ignore dca untill then as im thinking if i send cca then i will not be able to send statute barred letter in Feb 2010 as statute barred letter clearly says the dca cannot pursue "unless u can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under section 5". so would i be giving them the written contact they talk about in statute barred letter by sending in a cca letter. Im at the stage now where Rockwell dca are threatening to take me to court, bailiffs, attatchents on properties etc etc.

 

Help would be appreciated.

 

I can't see any answer in this thread so far regarding the "written contact" element in Stressed's first post.

 

Can anyone confirm if this means we should NEVER make any contact if we are hoping to rely on a statute barred escape route?

 

I thought it was just further payments within the last 6 years that screwed up the SB provision. Am I wrong?

 

Incidentally I believe it might be 5 years in Scotland?

 

BD

[Bazooka Boo]

To clarify the SB rules/regs.

 

By simply writing to a DCA regarding any alleged debt and whether you are legally liable to pay it, does not nor will it ever be construed as an admission of the alleged debt.

 

Once a debt is SB, 6 years from last payment or acknowledgement, 5 in Scotland.

Then nothing you or they do, can ever un-bar the debt, no amount of you admitting you owe the money in writing over the phone or in person, will ever un-bar the debt and they are not allowed to legally pursue any further collection activity.

They can ask for payment, but once you inform them that the debt is SB, then that 'should' be the last you hear from them, until they flog it on!

 

By writing to them and asking them to provide proof that the debt exists and you are liable to pay, is not an admission that you owe anything.

 

So the process should be, the 'Prove it' letter, followed by the CCA request (depending on type of debt and response) then it will take a couple of avenues dependant on response.

 

Boo;)

[Bigdebtor]

Boo

 

Thanks for this - but can you please clarify what you mean by "acknowledgement"?

 

BD

[Bazooka Boo]

Written confirmation that you agree that you owe money.