Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[majik]

Hi,

 

I would presume that they can prove what code was used however as OH half for a code or key he used what he was given eg CODE. sorry a bit confused by the above statement ? what do you mean ?

 

You can either use a key or a code, OH was given a code and so that is what he used, he did not request MY CODE or XX'S code he asked for a key or code and was given the one he used, he was also told if that did not work to come back and SM would have given him the key.

 

 

They released CCTV to me of my other half as proof that i commited one of the allegations. ( They now have confirmed i did no wrong). did they have to release this via sar you filed ? i thought you said that they had released no cctv footage ??

 

Nothing has been released by the SAR yet, they have not complied with it. The CCTV they have released is still shoots of my partner, it was released to me as part of their evidence against me in relation to an allegation.

Also i have not put in a SAR, My partner did as the footage we require shows him and not me.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Replied

Edited January 21, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

They could argue, that as you have stated previously in the blog, that other half had reguarly visited your work and helped you in work and the case that you worked there as a manager, he would have been well aware that he could not use the code without a certain level of authorisation, even if supplied by a member of staff, the fact that he asked for it would have broken there rules ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

They could argue, that as you have stated previously in the blog, that other half had reguarly visited your work and helped you in work and the case that you worked there as a manager, he would have been well aware that he could not use the code without a certain level of authorisation, even if supplied by a member of staff, the fact that he asked for it would have broken there rules ?

 

Regards

 

Fortunetly they couldn't argue that, the code is merely a code to open a door, approx 75 other people/customers have one and there is nothing written in any T & C's stating you cant give it to other people and that other people can't use it. There is nothing written anywhere in the T&C'S about the code in all honesty.

Plus he could have got into the building going through a different unlocked door is his intentions were bad etc. I still feel that the company would need to prove the intentions were bad to justify the allegation. They would not be able to show any bad intentions are there were none.

 

I think i need to point out that they are not claiming he entered without authorisation This was the original claim (email sent saying it was going to be added) which they altered in my dismissal letter and changed it into Breach of Security and Confidentiality.

 

I think this is because he signed in and out etc that is all the authorisation anyone has (customers/vistors and other site staff), they are claiming that i gave him a code to enter the buidling during my suspension.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

you state that 75 other people have codes, do they have the same code or does everyone have there own specific code ?

 

Surely there must be something written in a contract or in the terms and conditions that state you cannot share a secure access code ?

 

otherwise what would the point of the codes be ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

you state that 75 other people have codes, do they have the same code or does everyone have there own specific code ?

 

Surely there must be something written in a contract or in the terms and conditions that state you cannot share a secure access code ?

 

otherwise what would the point of the codes be ?

 

Regards

 

You have fallen for the trap lol, Who said it was a secure access code ? As i have already told you it merely opens a door and allows you into a building, everything else inside is still alarmed and manually locked with a key etc. he was given no alarm code or keys so he could not access anything other than the main entrance reception area.

 

This is why it is not stated in t&c's etc the doors are normally wide open during the day when staff are on site, on this day the door was not open so OH asked for key or code to open it. No attempts to go anywhere at all he merely opened the door, looked into building to see for CCTV signs, when he saw there were none he put the code back into system to close the door.

 

I feel that the important thing is he was only given access to a normally open and public area, while the company claim he used a managers code all codes are the same, they only allow entrance to the buidling, you need other things/codes/keys to actually get anywhere.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Fallen for what trap ????

 

Did your oh not know that he could not ask for the code ?

 

If it is normally an open and public area does that mean anyone of the street can walk in ?

 

If that is correct what is the point of an access code ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Fallen for what trap ????

 

Instantly assuming a code is High Security etc, this code is no anything to do with security if its during office hours which the incident was.

 

Did your oh not know that he could not ask for the code ?

 

He could ask for a code, customers/clients/visitors do it all the time as i have already said the code is not giving access to anything that isn't normally open during office hours. If someone else comes to site instead of the person named on our records, they sign in and are given access through the main door, they then should have there own individual keys/codes that whoever sent them would have given them to enbale them to do whatever they are there to do.

 

If it is normally an open and public area does that mean anyone of the street can walk in ?

 

Yes

 

If that is correct what is the point of an access code ?

 

For cusomers/clients that use it out of office hours when the doors are shut.

 

Regards

 

Replied

Edited January 22, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

You also state that you took photos in the building, did you get written permission to take pictures on a private premises ?

 

If you did not, they can use this against you as well .

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

You also state that you took photos in the building, did you get written permission to take pictures on a private premises ?

 

Its not private premises lol, and the company dont own the property

 

Also as it was to do with non compliance to the DPA i cant see the company making too mant waves about that, PLus of course they do not know what i took pictures of.

 

However yes i did get permission from SM on site, CCTV will prove this and show SM got of out site of camera etc.

 

If you did not, they can use this against you as well .

 

Regards

 

As its never been mentioned by anyone its unlikely they will suggest it now i would have thought and as i have proof from the ICO that they were commiting a criminal act which they are currently investigating i feel it is not really relevant.

 

Is their any reason you have no posted on any other thread than this ?

 

Soemone that has been through an ET i would have thought you could assist many people.

 

By ignoring the answers to the previous reply i take it you are agreeing that the company will have issues proving their version of events.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

I have made no other posts as i only joined this website a few months ago and can only handle one post at a time.

 

I would recommend waiting till you see all there evidence then decide what to do then, as all this is guess work as you have no idea what evidence they have

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

I have made no other posts as i only joined this website a few months ago and can only handle one post at a time.

 

I would recommend waiting till you see all there evidence then decide what to do then, as all this is guess work as you have no idea what evidence they have

 

I know what evidence they have, they have told me. They have had a verbal converstaion with SM and then that was followed up by a witness statement by the same SM

 

Regards

 

I have a lot of evidence from the company that disproves large parts of their defence and also proves that not all staff are treated the same and that allegation 4 was not addressed correctly (if at all)

 

Im just waiting for the ET to give instructions and i am almost sorted for a CMO if that is the way they wanna go etc, im hoping it is as it proves that the judge see's this as a fairly straight forward case which i feel it is, i have the evidence to disprove approx 50% of the ET3 and once i get the infomation i have requested i should be able to disprove much more.

[mikeyboy197663]

hi,

 

what is a cmo ?

 

Regards

[majik]

hi,

 

what is a cmo ?

 

Regards

 

Case Management Order im sure you proably had one or a CMD Case Management Discussion usually done over the phone etc ?

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Im sure it will be a lot clearer once you have all the evidence from the company.

 

Hows the new job going ? hopefully better than your last one . lol

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Im sure it will be a lot clearer once you have all the evidence from the company.

 

Hows the new job going ? hopefully better than your last one . lol

 

Regards

 

New job is great thanks

 

As i said earlier i feel its going to be a struggle getting some of the evidence as it disproves there version of events and proves OH's. They are not likely to freely give that out now are they. I may have to take the route of showing the judge that i have done everything i legally can to obtain it and they are refusing without reason etc. This should help discredit the company at the very least

Edited January 23, 2010 by majik

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Have you heard anything about the evidence or et date yet ?

 

Regards

[majik]

ET is scheduled for March and it seems to be a lot easier than i originally thought, Other sides solicitor says they have loads of people they wanna call as witnesses and the case will take around 4 days.

 

Judge disagrees and has stated that the case should take no longer than 1 day including rememdy (what ever that is).

 

Evidence still has not been released and the company attempted to defend the County Court claim, (They messed up big time and falsly claimed i retracted my request for evidence, once i pointed out that they were lying they quickly back tracked) They have now offered to settle out of court which they have been told once we have evidence we will talk about.

 

Case Management Order is due in 2 weeks time but i have already completed it, will double check it with ACAS tomorrow. Does anyone know whether i just send it to the other side or to the ET as well ?

Also the CMO states that witness statements have to be in 14 days before the hearing, Do i include these on CMO ?

 

ACAS are i believe trying to talk to company to get settlement before case is heard which i guess is there job, they know what i want so who knows about that.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

when is the cut off date for the company to release there evidence ?

 

are you trying to settle out of court for the et or the seperate county court judgement ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

when is the cut off date for the company to release there evidence ?

 

are you trying to settle out of court for the et or the seperate county court judgement ?

 

Regards

 

They are trying to settle out of court for the County Court claim, ET wise they know what i am after and ACAS have confirmed it is very reasonable and that i would probably be entitled to more than that if it goes the distance and i win as i can get additional costs for loss of employment rights and the like.

 

There is no cut off date for them to release the evidence, the have to comply with the CMO (so have 2 weeks to give me a list of what evidence they are going to be using) and then release anything we request withing 7 days of the request. So i am guessing it will be end of this month begining of next before i can get my hands on the evidence unless they release it through the Subject Access Request which they now seem to be going to comply with all be it months late lol.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Have you agreed to any amounts for settlement of the county court claim ? have they agreed them ?

 

What was the sar for, what evidence does it specifically relate to ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Have you agreed to any amounts for settlement of the county court claim ? have they agreed them ?

 

What was the sar for, what evidence does it specifically relate to ?

 

Regards

 

OH put in the SAR so he's dealing with it, as far as im aware no figures have been suggested yet, hes said once they comply he will enter talks etc. They have suggested settling before the court case etc OH dont care either way as the company have admitted that the County Court defence is actaully a lie lol.

 

SAR would cover all evidence needed for the ET and a few other bits as SAR covers all infomation the company have about OH so should give us everything we need.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Why have you done a sar for the et evidence ? they will surely supply you a copy of everything before you go to the et ?

 

did the company or there solicitors suggest settling out of court,? what was there reason for this ?

 

This will help in the et as it shows they have failed to follow correct procedures.

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

Why have you done a sar for the et evidence ? they will surely supply you a copy of everything before you go to the et ?

 

I didn't, OH did a S.A.R request as its a legal request that they have to comply with, they wouldn't release the evidence so doing it this way releases everything including all evidence and several other documents that i can use in my defense.

 

did the company or there solicitors suggest settling out of court,? what was there reason for this ?

 

The company, The solicitors are not involved in the County Court case in any way shape or form, which is great as far as im concerned. The company offered to settle as their defense was that they didn't have to comply as OH had agreed to retract the SAR, OH proved this was not the case and company immedialetly offered to settle out of court.

 

This will help in the et as it shows they have failed to follow correct procedures.

 

Regards

 

I believe that i already have loads of evidence that shows the company didn't follow their own procedure and that they treated staff differently as well. I will be using this evidence against the company if needed however the companies solicitor has suggested we agree on a few issues before the ET to help minimise the time spent in ET. I have said im open to the suggestions and will talk more once i have the CMO etc and know what they are going to use.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

It sounds like they are trying to back out of it, why would they need to clarify a few issues before the et, if they was so sure they was in the right ?

 

Sounds like you may be looking at an out of court settlement.

 

Have they agreed on a settlement figure ? have you requested a figure ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

It sounds like they are trying to back out of it, why would they need to clarify a few issues before the et, if they was so sure they was in the right ?

 

That was exactly my feelings, im still not sure though, i will await the CMO from them and go from their.

 

Sounds like you may be looking at an out of court settlement.

 

I do really hope so, it would be a lot less stressful for myself however if needed i will take it all the way

 

Have they agreed on a settlement figure ? have you requested a figure ?

 

Settlement figure for what ? County Court case hasn't been discussed but they have stated they wanna settle without the need of County Court case.

 

Regards

 

ET settlement, i was asked at the appeal meeting what i wanted so the company are well aware of this, the ACAS person has also asked and said it was a fair request and i could probably get more if things went my way at ET. I haven't been asked by the company since appeal meeting and i haven't been asked by their solicitors at all but i think they are well aware of what i am looking for, i will also be producing a Schedule of Loss for the ET in the near future.