New Tv Licence Threats

[andydd]

I have received similar to the thread starter letter. However it addressed to my ltd company I use for contracting. My address is not in registered address of the company. I wonder where did they get it? I think Inland Revenue helped brothers as I claim £140 allowance for the home office.

 

I pay TVL as an individual living at the address. Company does not have TVs.

 

I am not going to answer this nonsence as I am paying what I have to. However I'd appreciate if anyone point me to a compact FAQ or similar - what one might expect from these vultures what are reasonable means to deal with them and what are the extremes?

 

If I refuse them to enter could they push me? What I am allowed to do in this case? What if someone else open the door and let them in by mistake (son, wife)? How can I make them leave?

 

I would like to excersise every possible legal defense.

 

I dont have anything to hide but people who collects debts, TVL "investigators" and traffic wardens - are closer to jackals than humans - this is my personal reasearch of Darwin theory

 

They can only ask to be allowed in, you can simply say no, and if someone else invited them in then ask them to leave, its that simple.

 

There are FAQ on the TV Licencing site although its often deliberatly vague, although in recent years they have improved it because many people do genuinely use 'TV' sets with no desire to watch 'live' tv,. i.e gaming use, pc use, etc..

 

I used to get letters sent to my work too as being in charge of IT I once bought a DVD Recorder to record Video Conferences.

 

Just ignore the muppets

 

Andy

[maxima]

Thank you Andy.

[Conniff]

Exactly as Andy says. They have no powers whatsoever unless they have a court warrant of entry in their hand and they have to show they have good reason before one will be issued.

 

There is also the con of 'sign here'. Most will ask you to sign at the bottom of a sheet of paper to say they have visited, don't sign it unless you have had a read right through it as you will find it is not saying they have called, but admitting that you have a television and that you use it for receiving live programs.

[andydd]

Exactly as Andy says. They have no powers whatsoever unless they have a court warrant of entry in their hand and they have to show they have good reason before one will be issued.

 

There is also the con of 'sign here'. Most will ask you to sign at the bottom of a sheet of paper to say they have visited, don't sign it unless you have had a read right through it as you will find it is not saying they have called, but admitting that you have a television and that you use it for receiving live programs.

 

..by signing it you are also admitting to every crime ever commited and that you enjoy dressing up in big fluffy bunny ears.

[Conniff]

..by signing it you are also admitting to every crime ever commited and that you enjoy dressing up in big fluffy bunny ears.

 

Checks to make sure webcams not on

[maxima]

I have to admit I do like dressing like that... But they are blue not pink!

[snowy101]

It would be interesting to know precisely how often TVL actually apply for search warrants. I've searched, and haven't yet found any cases. I'm sure there are some, but it appears rare.

 

This page has useful information however. Philip Dean: withdrawal of implied right of access

 

 

That's the problem for Capita, to obtain a warrant they have to provide evidence to a judge that your watching a live TV feed & are non licenced.

Most people who get caught have unwittingly hung themselves by giving out information or signing something without reading it first.

 

If they took you to court on the evidence of there supposed " detection equipment" then you would have the right to see if its calibrated properly & question how it works but this equipment doesn`t exist, if it did they could simply sweep the whole country & take every non payer to court.

 

Never sign ANYTHING if asked, don't communicate with them [ legally you don't have to inform them of anything] & if they turn up on your doorstep, tell them to leave the property or you will ring the police.

 

They have no more powers than the milkman

[andydd]

That's the problem for Capita, to obtain a warrant they have to provide evidence to a judge that your watching a live TV feed & are non licenced.

Most people who get caught have unwittingly hung themselves by giving out information or signing something without reading it first.

 

If they took you to court on the evidence of there supposed " detection equipment" then you would have the right to see if its calibrated properly & question how it works but this equipment doesn`t exist, if it did they could simply sweep the whole country & take every non payer to court.

 

Never sign ANYTHING if asked, don't communicate with them [ legally you don't have to inform them of anything] & if they turn up on your doorstep, tell them to leave the property or you will ring the police.

 

They have no more powers than the milkman

 

*NEWSFLASH*

 

To save money, TV Licensing today annouced TV detection to be merged with daily milk deliveries

[physicsgraduate]

I just received a letter from them saying they have opened an investigation, sounded quite threatening.

 

The thing is I watch TV, but I can't afford a licence and I don't see why I should have to pay as most of the money is spent on nonsense.

 

I believe if you don't sign anything they can't force you to pay as you never agreed to it.

 

The guy came round a while back and he caught me out. I told him I didn't have a TV and he asked to come in my house, so I said no sorry I donot know who you are. Gave me a leaflet and then left.

 

Anyway I have put my TV away in storage and I only watch the occasional program online. If he comes round again and asks to come in and I let him he will see I have a computer attached to the internet and then he'll probably give me a small fine and I'll have to start paying it.

 

So I am just going to continue ignoring them. They don't know my name so I'm guessing they can't apply for a search warrant.

 

Are they able get details of what sites you look at from my internet provider? I'd guess probably not, data protection act and all that. I was just thinking either ignore them, or I could hide my router and just lie to them about not being on the internet, but that's probably not a good idea...

[samsmoot]

Just would like to point out that you'd only need a licence to watch online if it's a live broadcast - ie watching the programme as it is aired. Someone jump in if that's not right please.

 

Don't fret about it though, as you don't have to deal with them if you choose not to - I never do, preferring instead to to tell them I'm not interested and close the door on them.

 

No other agency in the UK does what they do - which is basically accusing you of an offence and insisting that you prove your innocence. I have been meaning to write a similar letter as a response to the last threatening letter I received from TV Licencing, replacing the words that refer to watching an unlicensed telly with something criminal which the sender may have done - accusing the accuser - just for fun. Maybe someone else with no life might want to give this a try?

[perplexity]

Just would like to point out that you'd only need a licence to watch online if it's a live broadcast - ie watching the programme as it is aired. Someone jump in if that's not right please.

 

Not quite.

 

 

Meaning of “television receiver”

 

9.—(1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.

 

(2) In this regulation, any reference to receiving a television programme service includes a reference to receiving by any means any programme included in that service, where that programme is received at the same time (or virtually the same time) as it is received by members of the public by virtue of its being broadcast or distributed as part of that service.

[The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004, s.9(1)]

 

N.B. the term is "installed or used", not installed and used.

 

You would not need a license to watch the iplayer recordings provided by BBC online, subsequent to a live broadcast, but a license is required to install or use a system to receive a broadcast, and the use of your own recording of a broadcast would count as a use, whether or not you watch it immediately. If a broadband cable could convey a BBC broadcast, the installation of that would have to be licensed.

 

The receiver with a purpose is the apparatus, not the person. The offence is absolute.

 

No other agency in the UK does what they do - which is basically accusing you of an offence and insisting that you prove your innocence.

 

 

Of course they do.

 

This is what happens with any strict liability offence. All they have to prove is the fact of the matter at face value. A classic example of this is driving or being in charge with excess alcohol. Whether or not you intended to be drunk is immaterial, nor is it a defence to plead that you were fit to drive, none the less.

[andydd]

I just received a letter from them saying they have opened an investigation, sounded quite threatening.

 

The thing is I watch TV, but I can't afford a licence and I don't see why I should have to pay as most of the money is spent on nonsense.

 

I believe if you don't sign anything they can't force you to pay as you never agreed to it.

 

The guy came round a while back and he caught me out. I told him I didn't have a TV and he asked to come in my house, so I said no sorry I donot know who you are. Gave me a leaflet and then left.

 

Anyway I have put my TV away in storage and I only watch the occasional program online. If he comes round again and asks to come in and I let him he will see I have a computer attached to the internet and then he'll probably give me a small fine and I'll have to start paying it.

 

So I am just going to continue ignoring them. They don't know my name so I'm guessing they can't apply for a search warrant.

 

Are they able get details of what sites you look at from my internet provider? I'd guess probably not, data protection act and all that. I was just thinking either ignore them, or I could hide my router and just lie to them about not being on the internet, but that's probably not a good idea...

 

The last point has been discussed here before, in theory its possible for TV LIcenencing to apply for (and maybe get) a Norwich Pharmaecutical Order (in the same way they alleged illegal file downloaders are tracked) but it has never been done and would be very unlikley to be done.I would of thought that the number of people watching live TV is going down what with the availabilty of various catch up services which of course don't need a licence.Andy

[physicsgraduate]

Thanks.

 

The way I see it is this. If they don't want folk watching TV live on the internet without paying for a license why don't they set it up so you need an account that can only be set up if you pay a regular installment to cover the license of provide evidence that you already have a license?

[watchinginvestigation2011]

The last comment makes sence. The new letters are worded that if you have a computer capable of watching live broadcasts, which to be honest most are arnt they, hahaha, that you are liable for tv licence in same nature as you have a tv, but choose not to watch it, the shear fact you have tv capapble of viewing is enough for a fine, so I have noticed this recent addtion as a change of tack for them.

 

Surely it is time for them to set up some system liased to number of tv liecence for house to allow viewing in only authorised households for live broadcasts, but of course they will not do this as it costs money !!!!!!! adn are more likely to choose to harass instead as they normally do.

 

I have a licence but would soon jump at the chance say if sky could allow choice of block bbc etc.......but again it wont happen as bbc probably know a lot of people would choose to leave them

[watchinginvestigation2011]

I suppost for those not to worried of being caught out, it is easier to hide a lappy than tv on short notice if they do not do internet screans etc.....

 

Imagine all the lappies slamming down their lids when the door knocks xx

[physicsgraduate]

 

Surely it is time for them to set up some system liased to number of tv liecence for house to allow viewing in only authorised households for live broadcasts, but of course they will not do this as it costs money !!!!!!! adn are more likely to choose to harass instead as they normally do.

 

+ even less people would pay for a license - everyone would just stream or download the shows they wanted to see

[devil501]

It would be interesting to know precisely how often TVL actually apply for search warrants. I've searched, and haven't yet found any cases. I'm sure there are some, but it appears rare.

 

 

 

i had one on myself, i think i've still got the warrant somewhre:-) it is rare as far as i can gather though, bullet point being don't p off an "inspector" they Do lie and cheat to get a warrant...especially when you tell them to get off your property.....BTW i asked for what evidence he used to gain warrant, still waiting now for court to reply.. 11 months and counting:)

[physicsgraduate]

It would be interesting to know precisely how often TVL actually apply for search warrants. I've searched, and haven't yet found any cases. I'm sure there are some, but it appears rare.

 

 

 

i had one on myself, i think i've still got the warrant somewhre:-) it is rare as far as i can gather though, bullet point being don't p off an "inspector" they Do lie and cheat to get a warrant...especially when you tell them to get off your property.....BTW i asked for what evidence he used to gain warrant, still waiting now for court to reply.. 11 months and counting:)

 

Holy ....

 

How does that work then, do they just turn up at your door with a piece of paper, any coppers?

 

I've only had one visit and they don't know my name so I'm guessing I've not gone near down that road yet?

 

Do they search your whole house or just come into the living area? I've got the TV in one of the rooms, but it's unconnected and I don't use it. As for hiding my laptop when they come, that's not so easy as I have it connected up to ext drives and that.

[beachbird]

WELL heres a good laugh my eldest son answered his door today to 2 people from the licensing place, they asked why he hadnt got a license he said well come in, so they did he took them to his lounge and said i dont need a license because i havent got a television hahaha then told them to get lost, wish i had been there

[devil501]

sorry for the late reply, internet problems..

 

they turned up 2 hours after i had been in, i saw the pair of them watching near my house when i was walking the dog, and to be honest i didn't have a licence at the time (i do now though) went to bed around 9.30pm (was on earlys the next day) then bang bang bang...man and woman, behind them 2 very p'd off coppers.

 

told who they were and given search warrant......bloddy hell.....anyway had to let them in so i did. warrant let them able to test and look for TV equipment. only have one TV so they asked me to turn it on didn't check any other room as i guess they had me with the one TV anyway.

 

cops also did a name check on me. and told me that they were here to keep the peace only and the other said we have better things to do than this hence the p'd off look when i opened the door....

 

all the TVL want is to catch you in the act, so one TV is all it takes. anyway i went to court, sent a letter in explaining things, i got a 148 pound fine payable at 20 quid a month breakdown was:

 

fine for not being licenced = £33.00

court costs = £100.00

victims surcharge = £15.00

[samsmoot]

Very interesting and slightly alarming.

 

My question is: What do you think would have happened if you simply never let any of them in? If the cops were there only as peace keepers, then would the TVL inspectors have had to break down the door? I did not think that was allowed.

[devil501]

hmmmm not sure mate, will try and find my warrant to see what it says but i do remember it is for once only and within one month of warrant to be used. i don't think that it allowed them to gain entry by force, there are a number of warrants on the net as they are a standard form, will find a link to one so you can take a look

[devil501]

found some. google images type in TVL search warrants first few are what i had given to me..

[samsmoot]

Cheers - I've had a look.

 

So, they have the authority to enter your premises - but do they have the authority to forcibly enter your premises? My guess is not. Could there be a penalty if you refuse entry when they have a warrant, I wonder?

[devil501]

yeah i think not for forced entry, but it does say with or without constables so i would guess the cops are there as they say for breach of peace so if you opened door then you said no to coming in then you would get nicked and the TVL would then enter your property. and i suppose that with a warrant and refusal to let them enter would result in a trip to the beak the next day!!