Signed Walking Possession.. Help!!!!!

[bawler]

Hi,

 

great site, hope someone can help. i signed a walking possession notice for council tax on monday without realising what it was. the bailiff didn't explain what it was, he just kept talking to me about prison. he demanded £1652.97 and said he would be back on friday to remove my goods by force if i hadn't paid by then. i was scared at the time and still am. i went onto the council website today and paid court fine in full(£231). i've been working on and off for the last three years and have really struggled to pay debts. in this time there have been a number of c/t adjustments that i haven't been able to meet but i'm sure i'm being overcharged. i called the council earlier today to let them know i'd paid this years c/t account and asked if there was anything outstanding, they told me to get in touch with the bailiff. i told them i was disputing the bailiffs' charges and only wanted to know about my account, they gave me 3 other references. i'm going to gather as many docs as i can find and i'll post them up later on. in the meantime, i'd be REALLY greatful for any advice about this.

[hallowitch]

paid court fine in full(£231).

 

do you mean the council tax liability order

get back on the phone to the council now and ask how many liability orders were passed to the bailiffs and the amount of each liability order and the date they were all passed to the bailiff

if they refuse to give you this info ask to speak to a supervisor they are legally obliged to give you this info

[bawler]

thanks for replying hallowitch, "do you mean the council tax liability order".. yes, it covered 09/10. i'm really stressed about all this. i didn't get the chance to call the council back, but when i called yesterday they did give me 3 other liability order references with figures but no dates. i scanned the docs i could put my hands on but don't know how to post them on the forum, can't make the attachments readable, they're too small. i'm so confused by the council/bailiff letters, they just don't seem to make sense. i dont' even know what i'm supposed to be paying, this is so depressing.

[hallowitch]

i scanned the docs i could put my hands on but don't know how to post them on the forum

i think most people use photo bucket

[Gtz]

..

[bawler]

can someone please advise me, the bailiff will be coming early tomorrow morning. what can i do to stop them from taking my belongings. is there anything in this paperwork that i can use against them, eg; the WP states that it should be completed in BLOCK CAPITALS and it wasn't, does this make a difference? also, i wasn't shown a warrant and there was no breakdown for the money they were demanding. i scanned 26 docs but i'll put them up when requested unless anyone suggests otherwise.

Edited August 20, 2009 by bawler

[hallowitch]

gitz you have left the ref numbers on W P A remove them

 

do you have a children

i take it the oven is a microwave

[bawler]

thank you for the quick response, this site is amazing.

no, i have no children. its the actual oven that has been listed..

[hallowitch]

2) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress if they are at the time of the distress in a dwellinghouse and are reasonably required for the use in the dwellinghouse of the person residing there or a member of the household-

a) beds or bedding;

b) household linen;

c) chairs or settees;

d) tables;

e) food;

f) lights or light fittings;

g) heating appliances;

h) curtains;

i) floor coverings;

j) furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food;

k) refrigerators;

l) articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes;

m) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse;

n) furniture used for storing-

(i) clothing, bedding or household linen;

(ii) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse; or

(iii) utensils used for cooking or eating food;

o) articles used for safety in the dwellinghouse or of household articles.

[bawler]

okay, i've taken the references out. i havent left any refrences in any of the other documents. The reason for me leaving them on this particular doc is because there are 3 different reference numbers the bailiffs are coming to me with, and its really confusing? im in the process of calling the council to find out the DATES the refrences were handed onver to the bailiffs. here is the W P http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/20WALKINGPOSSESSION17AUG2009-1.jpg

[hallowitch]

Each liability order is a separate issue therefore i don't think the bailiff should be using 1 walking possession agreement to levy on goods for 3 liability orders

 

furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food

if you have 2 ovens e.g. a microwave and a normal oven he can levy on one

chairs or settees

if you live alone and have a 3 piece suite he can levy the settee and one chair

articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes

cant levy the washing machine

Edited August 20, 2009 by hallowitch

[Conniff]

The only way to stop him tomorrow is to come to an agreement for payment. They are completely souless, so that may not be easy now the WPO has your signature on it.

[hallowitch]

he demanded ?1652.97 and said he would be back on Friday to remove my goods by force if i hadn't paid by then.

he said this to you this must be in writing giving you a time and date for the removal of your goods

CODE OF PRACTICE

ON

LOCAL AUTHORITIES' USE OF BAILIFFS

IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF LOCAL TAXES

UPDATE & AMENDMENT SHEET

April 2000

AMENDMENTS TO TEXT

There have been changes brought by case law and also by amendments to the

Distress for rent Rules 1988 and Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement)

Regulations 1993 as follows.

p5 Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed

[bawler]

i didnt think so!! THESE PEOPLE!!! :@ ...okay, ive managed to get the dates for when each liabilty order was handed over to the bailiffs stretching back to 2007-present. on the 12th of october 2007 the council handed over a liability order, cost of £421.41. i presume the balliffs came on 7th october asking for £1135.89?? http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/23BAILIFFLETTER710UNKOWN.jpg. and again i presume they came on 6th of november 2007?? ..its really confusing because they havent dated thier letters! http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/24BAILIFFLETTER6NOV07GUESS.jpg and the 30th of january.http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/26BAILIFFLETTER30JAN08GUESS.jpg

i have a few more and will post them up soon, but i find the charges excessive as the council have issued a schedule fee of what they charge.. http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/17SCHEDULESOFTHECOUNCILTAX.jpg

 

i feeel like my time is ticking away, this is reall weighing me down.

the fact that i dont actually have they money to pay theses people this kind of money.

i had to borrow £230 yesterday to pay off this years council tax bill on the refrerence that they came to collect my things for. thinking i could at least clears it with the council! its seems unfair that they are levying my stuff on 2 PREVIOUS references?!

they come back at 12pm 2mo to remove my things...

any advice would be greatlt appreciated! Many thanks

[bawler]

ive been reading around a little bit, trying to find a way to get out of this walking possession! i have a question and im just praying that somebody can give me an answer?! why is it that the form specificlly asks the papers to be filled out in BLOCK CAPITALS? it has all been filled in lower case, now does this make the contract void? if you put this in front of a judge, is it accepted? my understanding is that when they write in upper case, they are are dealing with JURISTIC PERSONS? (artificial person) AN ENTITY,SUCH AS A CORPORATION, THAT IS RECGONZED AS HAVING LEGAL PERSONALITY. IT IS CONTRASTED WITH A HUMAN BEING,WHO IS REFERED TO AS A NATURAL PERSON.

 

thanks for all of your help so far everyone..much appreciated!!!

[bawler]

i also wanted to ask, are there any templates i can use to write to tehm or the council? stopping from taking things that dont belong to me or that they shouldnt be taking because they should only be coming on 1 liability order, not 3!! and i havent been given a time and date IN WRITING to say when a removal van or removal will proceed if money is not paid. this is all very new to me, definately an expierence i'll look to avoid in the future!

where do i go from here?

[hallowitch]

I have asked one of the site team to contact tomtubby the expert on bailiffs to have a look at this thread to see if she can help you

as you say its all very complicated

[bawler]

thank you, much appreciated!

[UK27]

The first thing is DONT PANIC!, the bailiffs do not want the goods they want the money. The schedule of fees is flawed as the law requires the bailiffs to detail the actual fees, it is not acceptable to put "inclusive" and whilst this does not make the "levy illegal" it is nevertheless irregular and therefore invalid. Call the bailiff personally, the bailiff company and the council to advise them of this and that you will not allow the bailiff access if they return to attempt to complete the levy. If that fails hide the laptop and projector at a friends house, the washing machine, one TV and the oven are exempt items and therfore cannot be seized, the reamining items will not realise the debt and the levy will be abandonded.

Edited August 20, 2009 by UK27

[Conniff]

You cannot hide, sell or dispose of goods that have been levied.

[UK27]

Whose side are you on? you can do whatever you like, bear in mind I have already said that the levy is irregular therefore invalid, which means that legally it is void. The hiding would not be an issue because of this but will thwart their attempts of removal if they chose to continue.

Edited August 20, 2009 by UK27

[Conniff]

I am firmly on the side of the op, I don't want them to get into trouble.

If your dispose of any goods that have been levied, you are committing an offence.

 

Can you categorically say that the levy form is invalid?

[bawler]

I have asked one of the site team to contact tomtubby the expert on bailiffs to have a look at this thread to see if she can help you

i dont really know what i can/ can't do, is there any statute information or actual pieces of paperwork i can put before them to back up these claims? some of it sounds quite promising but not 100% sure! i just need some clarity on the issue! i dont want to look silly or get myslef arrested 2mo morning!

[UK27]

The regulations require the bailiff to leave at the premises an inventory and schedule of fees, there is no schedule of fees as the bailiff has stated the amount is inclusive, therefore there is no record of the fees charged, this is a legal requirement under section 45(5) of The Council Tax(Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 SI 613

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

Schedule 5 details the costs, go to www.opsi.gov.uk to find the Statutory instrument

[bawler]

i was looking through the papers again and found SCHEDULE 5 on the back of the walking possession here it is. http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/bawler87/21W-PSCHEDULE5.jpg