EASY JET - EU carrier yes or no ?

[The Phantom]

Like so many other people I am in a dispute with Easy jet over a cancelled flight

of which they did not inform us in advance. We were only told at the airport at check-in that the flight was cancelled, because they "forgot" to tell us. All other passengers on that flight were informed in advance and re-booked on the next flight 1 day later. As we were not told this next flight was fully booked by that time and the following one 2 days later was also cancelled. This meant we could only travel 3 days later and incurred repeated travelling costs to the airport, not to mention our holiday being cut short by 3 days.

I have written to Easy jet holding them responsible for costs etc but did not receive a reply (so far)

I have spoken to a solicitor who has advised m that under a EU regulation

Regulation (EC) 261/2004

 

we may be able to claim compensation for the cancellation as we travelled from a EU airport (Bristol). But another condition for this regulation to be effective is that the carrier must be a EU carrier.

Is Easy Jet still a EU carrier ? I have noticed that their main address is now in SWITZERLAND - paradise country for companies that do not want to come under stringent European laws and regulations as Switzerland is not part of the EU

Any ideas on this please ?

[rjstott]

I don't see anything in the regulation about an EU carrier. Here are some of the definitions:

(a) "air carrier" means an air transport undertaking with a valid operating licence;

(b) "operating air carrier" means an air carrier that performs or intends to perform a flight under a contract with a passenger or on behalf of another person, legal or natural, having a contract with that passenger;

© "Community carrier" means an air carrier with a valid operating licence granted by a Member State in accordance with the provisions of Council Regulation (EEC) No 2407/92 of 23 July 1992 on licensing of air carriers(5);

The key criteria is that one end of the flight must be in an EU state.

 

However, it is likely that because you were not informed of the cancellation that the defined payments do not cover the costs and loss you incurred in which case you are pursuing a breach of contract albeit supported by the referenced EU Regulation. So you can get as a minimum the compensation provided for in the regulation but because they didn't even offer you that a court would likely support a much higher award.

[The Phantom]

I checked on the CAA website and under cancellation it states

"This page lists the rights of air passengers under Regulation (EC) 261/2004 when a flight is cancelled. It only applies to those passengers flying from an EU airport or from an airport outside the EU to an EU airport on an EU carrier" So they are putting in the EU carrier bit. Maybe I should phone them and clarify that, but Easy Jet is also still registered under their Luton Easyland Address where I have written to to hold them legally responsible for my losses &compensation, but they have not had the courtesy to reply so far. So depending on whether that Easyland is a legal address for their company , then that would make them an EU carrier I suppose if they are still registered in the UK.

But you are of course correct about breach of contract, as it clealry states in their terms of carriage that they will make any reasonable effort in contacting you if they have to cancel a flight. In our case they made no attempt whatsoever, so they are in breach of their terms of carriage to start with

I have put that into my letter as well

But if they do reply (who knows whether they ever will) I suppose they will find some sort of loop hole they will try to worm out of and I was trying to gather as much information as possible , as I intend to take the matter to a small claims court if they do not offer me anything or reply to my letter

[rjstott]

I think this EU carrier bit is misleading. Easyjet are an EU carrier if the definitions I posted apply, it doesn't matter whether they are an EU based company. So this legislation applies to all airlines which fit the definition. By all means check it out but the regulation was specifically created to avoid any get out.

 

In any case unless it is suggested as a defence why worry about it?

[Overdrawn]

Hello Nicole99

 

Not sure how much use my post will be to you but I can offer you the following information:

 

Many cancelled flights have been as result of the previous management making a mess of the crew numbers and working hours and so there has been insufficent crew to man the flights. This situation has been handed to the present CEO Andy Harrison (address a letter to him personally at the Luton address) It is costing approximately 7 million pounds to sub-charter some of these flights.

 

EasyJet are an EU carrier, however EasyJet Swiss ARE NOT.

 

In the case of flights being cancelled due to operational reasons you are entitled to:

A refund or

Re-booking on another flight if available

Accomodation is not provided, however any hotel costs incurred while awaiting this re-scheduled flight are claimable (up to a limit) but only retrospectively from EasyJet customer Services (which as we all know from the other posts on this forum are appauling)

They will not refund for the "lost" nights at your destination hotel or for the fact that your holiday has been cut short. Nor will they refund for your expenses for travel to/from the airport - pretty pathetic considering profits are estimated to be up 40% this year.

 

Please keep us updated.

[The Phantom]

In the case of flights being cancelled due to operational reasons you are entitled to:

A refund or

Re-booking on another flight if available

Accomodation is not provided, however any hotel costs incurred while awaiting this re-scheduled flight are claimable (up to a limit) but only retrospectively from EasyJet customer Services (which as we all know from the other posts on this forum are appauling)

They will not refund for the "lost" nights at your destination hotel or for the fact that your holiday has been cut short. Nor will they refund for your expenses for travel to/from the airport - pretty pathetic considering profits are estimated to be up 40% this year.

 

This sounds like something Easy Jet would be telling people, but according to the EU law / regulation quoted above, cancellation (unless due to very severe and extraordinary circumstances beyond the arlines control / airline has to prove this) a compensation payment is due to the passengers affected. The amount depends on distance and the time frame after which travel could re-commence. (up to or over 2 hrs)

I don't think Easy Jet is beyond or above this law, no matter what they state in their paperwork or tell people ? There are also some other statutory things passengers of cancelled flights are entitled to, no matter what the airline says.

Interestingly, on our return trip (from a German airport) in front of the Easy jet check-in desks the Airport authorities have put a large information sign, advising passengers to ensure they are handed a written statement of their rights in case of delays or cancellations to ensure they are aware of their legal entitlements. No such information sign was at Bristol airport ?!

I think a problem with these EU laws and regulations is that nobody knows about them and carriers that have to adhere to them are busy not to tell you if they can help it

As we were four persons travelling that day Easy Jet should pay compensation of 250 Euro per Person plus our incurred expenses

By not informing us of the cancellation they are in breach of their own terms of carriage anyway

This is what the EU regulation states by the way

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=306&pagetype=90&pageid=4408

[Overdrawn]

 

This sounds like something Easy Jet would be telling people

 

The above (albeit basic) information that I posted is not what EasyJet are telling "people" it is in fact what they are telling their staff - pilots to be precise. Granted, pilots may not have the best knowledge of laws and regulations in this particular field but are told the basics of what the company will/will not compensate for etc.

 

I really wish you the best of luck with your case and hope that you keep us informed of your progress, I'm sure that some of the people in the more senior roles within Easyland could learn a thing or two from reading these forums ;-)

[The Phantom]

Hmm, I think it is worrying that Easy jet still seems to close its eyes regarding current legislation, but there is no if and but, if they operate as a EU carrier hen they have to abide by the EU laws as outlined which means they will have to pay cancellation and delay compensation as outlined by law and not as outlined intheir

paperwork as any legislation will supercede their terms of contract

But to be honest if I hadn't phoned a solicitor I would have never known about this law.

I would have probably believed Easy Jet and thought they managed to put all the necessary disclaimers into their papers to leave me standing in the rain, but that is not so at all

Knowledge is always Power I suppose

[KerryB]

I'm having the same problem claiming from EasyJet, my 6.50pm flight from Stansted was cancelled at the last minute and we were re-routed to Gatwick by taxi to stay in a hotel till the next available flight at 4.40am the next morning (yawn).

 

Thanks, I've found all the info on this site really helpful and i'm thinking of sending a "Letter before Action" My only concern is that because the holiday was booked through LastMinute.com there is no actual contract between me and EasyJet and I was under the impression that there had to be a contract? Do I need to take action with Lastminute.com instead? Would be glad of any further advice??????

 

PS sorry if this has already been covered but I've searched around and can't find it.

 

kerry

[The Phantom]

Hmm, we booked directly with Easy Jet, so we were Easy Jets customers

In your case you may have to go through the actual operator Last Minute . com, depending on what their small print says in case of cancellations ?

You may want to get some legal advise from a solicitor to know exactly where you stand ? I get free legal advise and assistance through my union, don't know if you have access to something similar ?

[StudentInDebt]

KerryB, regardless of your contract with Lastminute it is the operating carriers' responsibility to enact EU Regulation 261/2004.

 

Did you have to pay for the cost of the transfer and hotel room or was this organised by the airline? Were you paid compensation? You say that you are preparing to send an LBA, have you already contacted Easyjet asking them to resolve the matter? Did you continue with the package that you had booked?

[KerryB]

Hi Studentindebt,

 

Yes we did have to pay £120 for the cost of transfer to Gatwick and also the hotel (£180). Easyjet advised us of this without asking who we had booked the flight through. We travelled from Gatwick and continued with the package we had booked through Lastminute. As yet we have received no compensation from Easyjet, in-fact we haven't even received a response other than the automated one.

[The Phantom]

I have spoken to the CAA on their telephone helpline and they say it takes Easy Jet on average 8 weeks (!) to acknowledge a letter from a customer. So they say I have not really been waiting that long (4 weeks since my first letter almost 2 since second letter) considering it is Easy Jet I wrote to....

I rest my case

I will wait the deadlines I have given them in my letters and then pursue through the courts

[Brick Driver]

I used to work for a company call Servisair at Bristol who handle all easyjet operations at that airport. I'm not taking sides in this but I will do my best to provide you with information.

 

First off, why was your flight cancelled? What was the reason given? Under this EU regulation airlines only have to compensate in certain situations. If the cancellation is out of the airlines control, i.e. weather, air traffic control, airport operations they do not have to compensate.

 

Secondly, you would have flown to Berlin on an Easyjet Switzerland (that was the case when I worked there a year ago) aircraft not an Easyjet UK aircraft. Easyjet base nine aircraft at Bristol but the Berlin flight is operated by an aircraft based at Berlin and registered in Switzerland. Ironically the flight to Geneva is operated by a UK aircraft.

 

Interestingly, on our return trip (from a German airport) in front of the Easy jet check-in desks the Airport authorities have put a large information sign, advising passengers to ensure they are handed a written statement of their rights in case of delays or cancellations to ensure they are aware of their legal entitlements. No such information sign was at Bristol airport

 

These ARE displayed on ALL check in desks, ALL ticket desks, ALL boarding gates and the main information desk at Bristol. The airport authority and the DOT religiously check this.

 

Send a Data Protection request to easyjet. This will contain proof of them trying to or not trying to contact you. I should imagine that they would have sent an email to the address you supplied when you booked rather than telephone or write to you.

 

As I have said, I am not taking sides but providing some information. I will also try and answer any questions you have.

[The Phantom]

All we were told is that the flight was cancelled for operational reasons

The check in personnel was not only particularly unconcerned but also quite rude

They said that was all they were told. I doubt this will qualify for "exceptional" reasons beyond their control.

Our flight was not to Berlin but to Hamburg, we were however told we could go to Berlin instead which we of course declined . Alternatively the Easy jet staff suggested we could go around the terminal and ask some other airlines whether they would take us to Hamburg instead (we would have to pay for that !) - at that point I could understand why EasyJet satff takes self defense lessons as part of their training

Nowhere at the Bristol airport where any signes advising us that we should ask for written statements of our rights if our flight was cancelled. If I understand the law correctly Easy jet should have provided it to us without being asked anyway

The signs in Hamburg airport are clearly visible at the Easy jet check in desks

 

Anyway to start with Easy Jet is in breach of their own terms of carriage by not making any attempt to informing us of the cancellations

[The Phantom]

PS : of course I will not chase EasyJet to proove they contacted us. That is up to them if they decide to file a defense at court

They told us they never made any attempt to contact us, they didn't know why, probably "forgot", so that is good enough for me. Why chase them for proof ?

Why waste more of my time ? We surely didn't change our e-mail address and never got an e-mail from them, they didn't phone or write and that is what they told us. So why pursue this any further ?

[Brick Driver]

How far in advance were other passengers contacted? Operational reasons is usually a crew member calling in sick, a flight that has been delayed at some point (which could be out of the airlines control) or technical issues with the aircraft. The more you can get from the airline to back you up the better. So if you have proof that they did not attempt to contact you you will have a stronger case against them.

 

Best of luck anyhow.

[The Phantom]

You don't honestly think they gave me any further infomation do you ??

All they said it was for operational reasons and that was all they could tell me

(typical EasyJet : How the h*** would I know I only work here. They were not only unconcerned but also very rude)

They admitted to us they did not contact us but also did not know why. (It did not say on their computer so they knew NOTHING or are advised in such instances not to say anything. Who knows ?)

Operational reasons are not exceptional in any case (war being declared in Germany might have been)

So easy Jet is in breach of the following:

- their terms of carriage by not making an attempt to contact us

- EU passenger law by not providing us with anything we are entitled to

and no written statement of our rights

(all they did was to suggest we go to BErlin or Amsterdam instead or walk

around the terminal asking other airlines whether they could take us

to Hamburg instead. When asked who would pay if there was anybody, they said "you will"

So based on all this alone I would take them to court now, never mind the compensation they also have to pay !

In my opinion and based on the experience of other people on this site it is pointless trying to contact EasyJet anyway - who has had a reply from them ?

[Brick Driver]

All they said it was for operational reasons and that was all they could tell me

(typical EasyJet : How the h*** would I know I only work here. They were not only unconcerned but also very rude)

 

The only easyjet staff who work at Bristol are the flight crews. All other staff are employed by a company called Servisair Globeground. Servisair staff can only tell you what Easyjet have told them. So they may not have known what caused it.

 

They admitted to us they did not contact us but also did not know why. (It did not say on their computer so they knew NOTHING or are advised in such instances not to say anything. Who knows ?)

 

When was the flight cancelled? Two weeks before, two days before, two hours before you were due to travel? When?

 

Operational reasons are not exceptional in any case (war being declared in Germany might have been)

 

All delays are operational because they affect the operation of the airline. Now if another airline has a problem with one of it's aircraft and closes the airport preventing the aircraft you are due to use from returning so you can board it, how is that not exceptional? Your airline didn't cause the delay did it?

 

If the aircraft you were due to board could only upload X amount of fuel because of a fuel shortage at the departure airport and had to make a tech stop at an airport enroute to uplift enough fuel to get it back to Bristol causing a lengthy delay how is it your airlines fault? They didn't cause the fuel shortage did they?

 

Air Traffic control issue a long slot to the first rotation of the day for the aircraft you are due to board later in the day. By the time it comes to your flight the aircraft is running say 4 hours late. How is the airline at fault? They don't allocate ATC slots.

 

Thats three examples of operational delays all of which were not the airline's fault.

 

So easy Jet is in breach of the following:

- their terms of carriage by not making an attempt to contact us

- EU passenger law by not providing us with anything we are entitled to

and no written statement of our rights

 

I can't comment on the first part because I don't know when the flight was cancelled.

 

On the passenger rights charter part I beg to differ with you on this because I know for a fact that these are plasterd all over the checkin desk, ticket desk, boarding gates and information desk. It is a CAA requirement and if they or the DOT find that they are not displayed then both the airport operator and airline receive heavy fines. If the checkin agent didn't offer you these did you not think to ask why they didn't or even ask for a copy?

 

I'm not trying to get into an argument with you I'm just trying to provide you with some information that may be of help to you. After all I did spend nearly five years working in the aviation industry. Two of those years were at Bristol.

[The Phantom]

I think you are not aware of the EU legislation we are all talking about here

The examples you have given are not exceptional/extraordinary. Reasons are not just exceptional because they may not be the airlines fault. The law requires them to be extraordinary such as : political instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings and strikes that affect the operation of an operating air carrier"

And it is always the airline that has to prove beyond any doubt that the reasons for the cancellation were indeed extraordinary.

And knowing EasyJet their "operational reason" will not meet the above requirement. As they cancelled a few more flights to Hamburg that week it is obvious they cancelled the ones that were not fully booked to fill up the remaining ones. In that week we were travelling they cancelled every second flight to Hamburg. So flights were every other day rather than every day. I would be most interested to hear their extraordinary reasons for this. (Political instability in Germany every second day ? Meteorological conditions which occur unexpectedly every second day but only affect EasyJet planes ? Totally extraordinary security risks which pop up every second day ? Come on !! )

And you keep asking when the other passengers were informed. How would I know ? All I know is that we were not informed and were left standing looking rather stupid with all our luggage at check-in. Apparently we were just forgotten or something. They simply could not offer an explanation and weren't really interested anyway. So as far as we were concerned the flight was cancelled for operational reasons on the day of travel which makes it even worse.

I have spoken to a solicitor who advised on legal action as she thought we had a very strong case so that is what will happen unless Easy Jet replies with an acceptable settlement but according to the CAA EasyJet rarely responds before eight weeks which will exceed the deadline I have given them anyway. Their staffing problems in their complaints department I think are also their problem so I will not make it mine and proceed down the legal route as planned (countdown ticking)

[The Phantom]

P.S. Hello, I said this before : there were NO signs at Bristol airport advising anybody to ask for their rights in case of cancellations or delays, not at check-in, not at Easy Jets customer Service desk (where we spent most of the time), nowhere we went (around the departure hall) . In Hamburg they could not possibly be missed. Especially as they were strategically placed all around the EasyJet check-in desk in all different languages in bright red writing and all along the posts you have to walk / queue past if checking in at EasyJet's desk.

And again, EasyJet has to supply these voluntarily anyway. How would we know to ask for them if there are no signs ?? I am an ordinary Joe Bloggs type of person, not a walking EU law reference book. I would not have known about this law if my solicitor had not told me about it.

I doubt very much the CAA polices every airport in the UK and as they are more like a toothless watchdog (we can remind airlines but we cannot force them) I doubt they are installing that much fear amongst airports for not putting up some posters, because at Bristol when we were there there were NONE

[Brick Driver]

I understand that you are upset and angry because you missed a few days of your holiday and you want to blame easyjet. It is understandable. But you are not accepting any of the points I am putting accross. You are reading between the lines and searching for what you believe to be 100% correct and want to read.

 

As I have already said I worked in the aviation industry for a number of years. I know the various rules and regulations that govern airlines these days I have also delt with many flight cancellations. So please don't try and make out that I do not know what I am talking about. All examples of a delay I showed were caused by events beyond the airlines control and are classed as exceptional.

 

So as far as we were concerned the flight was cancelled for operational reasons on the day of travel

 

If a flight is cancelled for operational reasons it is usually cancelled within a short period of time. By that I mean a few hours when the passenger are usually at the airport. So you have to accept the fact that you may have arrived at the airport before they could contact you. I'm not saying that this was the case because you say that they simply "forgot" to tell you?

 

If you did take advice off a solcitor did they offer to take the case up for you? If you are that confident that you are 100% correct and Easyjet are 100% to blame would it not make sense to proceede with legal action via a solicitor?

 

The CAA is the law when it comes to aviation. They are not a watchdog. What they say goes. After all, they hold the licences for all uk based airlines and airports. If you belive that there were/are no notices posted in the airport (perhaps they took them down for the few hours you were there) or that you were not offerd any I suggest you contact either Servisair or Bristol Airport and voice your compaint to them. As I have said, the only Easyjet employees at Bristol are the pilots ans cabin crew.

 

Again I stress that I am not taking sides. I am simply offering a differnt point of view.

[rjstott]

The only person who is going to decide whether conditions are 'exceptional' is a judge and he'll do that based on evidence and his interpretation. It's quite clear that the budget operators will and do use excuses to cancel flights for 'operational' reasons that being profit margin. The legislation therefore provides some compensation and a slight deterrent to airlines in such case. However, you are certainly not restricted to only the compensation defined in the legislation.

 

The only way here is to continue with your fight and you'll get all the support the rest of can give.

[Brick Driver]

Please do continute with what you have decidede to do. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just show you the bigger picture. Best of luck.

[Brick Driver]

Any news on this yet?