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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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Restons/MBNA Issued Court Claim **ROUND ONE TO SF**


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well a simple question might just elicit a confirmation from them that it is already terminated

Yes i certainly ought to ask them that ! It will be interesting to see their answer! I wonder if anyone else had issues getting a termination notice from Restons and confirmation it been terminated,:confused:

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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A judgement WILL BE entered against you hehe i like that bit why are restons/optima so certain

Finally if you succeed with your claim please consider a donation to consumer action group as those donations keep this site alive.

 R.I.P BOB aka ROOSTER-UK you have always been a Gent on these boards and you will be remembered for that.

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A judgement WILL BE entered against you hehe i like that bit why are restons/optima so certain

Hi Pompeyfaith! LOL! Yes they do seem very sure of themselves! in spite of having a number of humiliating victories against them on these threads!:grin:

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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and 4 the record im always thinking of and helping others

Yes i see you do on a lot of threads ive come across:)

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi sf99,

 

I've just gone through the thread very quickly.

 

A few questions -

 

What are the dates on the Default Notices (date sent and date to rectify) ?

 

Do you still have the envelope thge default Notice came in ?

 

Have you sent off an SAR to MBNA and requested the Comms log ?

 

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12th June 09

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: Account No: I understand you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within our internal record sisytems with regard to the above account.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for the account or associated accounts will be acceptable.

In addition, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for the account (s) I have with your organisation, details as follows:

1: Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any original documents and their original associated terms and conditions you hold in support of the same. I wish to make it plain I do not require or want any blank/generic documents, but only actual copies of signed documents and their associated historic terms etc. If you no longer hold these, or for any other reason cannot supply all of these documents, I require you to inform me of this in writing, including the reasons for not supplying anything mentioned, or for supplying anything that varies from the specific format I have requested.

 

2: A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my credit card account(s) held with your organisation.

3: If there have been any fees/charges levied on the account by either yourself or a third party. I require a detailed breakdown of those charges.

 

4: Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

5: Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone or any other format which you have entered into with me, or any other individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

6: Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, to inform me of the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

7: Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 (number) to cover your fee. This fee is to be used for this Subject Access Request and for no other purpose.

If there is any specific information you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity please let me know by return. However, I would point your attention to the Information Commissioner's Good Practice Notes in respect of the Data Protection Act as follows:

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

"2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are."

Please note the above address is the one to which you normally use to communicate my private business to and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

However, should you feel it necessary to demand further proof of my identity despite the Good Practice Notes as above, I would advise I do NOT hold either a driving licence or passport. I am however prepared to telephone your Data Compliance Department to establish my identity

 

It seems a lot of banks are wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is wholly wrong.

 

 

The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH ANY PART OF THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Enclosed: postal order in the sum of £10 (number xxxxxxxx)

Edited by sunflower99
personal details amended

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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12th June 09

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: Account No: I understand you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within our internal record sisytems with regard to the above account.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for the account or associated accounts will be acceptable.

In addition, I would be grateful if you would provide the following for the account (s) I have with your organisation, details as follows:

1: Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organisation, including true copies of any original documents and their original associated terms and conditions you hold in support of the same. I wish to make it plain I do not require or want any blank/generic documents, but only actual copies of signed documents and their associated historic terms etc. If you no longer hold these, or for any other reason cannot supply all of these documents, I require you to inform me of this in writing, including the reasons for not supplying anything mentioned, or for supplying anything that varies from the specific format I have requested.

 

2: A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my credit card account(s) held with your organisation.

3: If there have been any fees/charges levied on the account by either yourself or a third party. I require a detailed breakdown of those charges.

 

4: Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

5: Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone or any other format which you have entered into with me, or any other individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.

 

6: Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, to inform me of the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

7: Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 (number) to cover your fee. This fee is to be used for this Subject Access Request and for no other purpose.

If there is any specific information you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity please let me know by return. However, I would point your attention to the Information Commissioner's Good Practice Notes in respect of the Data Protection Act as follows:

Data Protection Act Good Practice Notes:

 

"2. Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are."

Please note the above address is the one to which you normally use to communicate my private business to and which you have hitherto found acceptable.

 

However, should you feel it necessary to demand further proof of my identity despite the Good Practice Notes as above, I would advise I do NOT hold either a driving licence or passport. I am however prepared to telephone your Data Compliance Department to establish my identity

 

It seems a lot of banks are wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is wholly wrong.

 

 

The Data Protection Act clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

 

IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DEAL WITH ANY PART OF THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROTECTION.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Enclosed: postal order in the sum of £10 (number xxxxxxxx)

 

first line should read YOUR and not OUR

 

might be a good idea to head up the letter SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

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Okay. Let's have a look at the documentation you have and what you will require.

 

The Default Notice is defective as it does not give you the required 14 days.

 

This will be the basis of your defence.

 

For this, you will need the following documentation

 

1/ Woodchester vs Swain case law

 

2/ A printout of s87/88 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

3/ The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 SI 1983-1561

 

4/ A print out of J R Bickford-Smiths Council Tax Manual - Section 3 - Appendix 3.6 - Service of documents by post.

 

There are copies of these on the site.

 

 

If or when MBNA do respond to your SAR, you will need to find the Comms

Log sheets.

Have a good look at the data printouts as it will reveal the inner workings of the account and any manual intervention ( see fairbyblue's thread).

This may provide further bits for your defence.

 

As Restons have sent you a "copy" of the defective DN, they cannot argue against the 14 days issue.

Further, point the judge to Bickford -Smith for the service of documents. ;)

If a document was posted on Friday, service would be deemed Tuesday.

 

Just take a deep breathe and have a look for the docs I've suggested you need.

 

Also, check CB's posting on the enforcability of MBNA agreements -

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

 

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If a document was posted on Friday, service would be deemed Tuesday.

 

Yes, but only if it was posted first class. Second class post would be Thursday for service (4 working days).

 

All of my MBNA DN's have been second class.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

MBNA Cards

 

CitiCard

M&S and More

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Yes, but only if it was posted first class. Second class post would be Thursday for service (4 working days).

 

All of my MBNA DN's have been second class.

 

Mine too - some haven't even been sent by Royal Mail, but by another firm who takes even longer:)

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******* NOTICE FOR SUNFLOWER'S FAN CLUB*******

 

It has been agreed to remove all non essential posts from this thread , in order to make finding important information easier.

 

Unfortunately this will mean removing lots of "Good luck" and "Bump" posts. Both Sunflower and myself (the editing culprit) apologise for this.. because the posters will be receiving CAGbot messages:(

 

I will try and move all the "Good luck" posts to the original MBNA thread.

:D where SF's ambition to have the longest MBNA thread is on it's way to be fulfilled, :D

Edited by citizenB

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

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Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

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bugger- i was expecting a rendition from Hamlet!

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Found a very interesting post from Shakespeare (originally from Paul Walton) on PompeyFaith's Help thread. Have copied it here as I believe it may be relevant;

 

Could the prospective credit agreement be in breach of s59 of the CCA 1974 ?

 

Here's some thought provoking snippets from a successful defence on prospective agreements used by PaulWalton (He WON) :-

 

[begin quote]

2 On the 19th May 2005, the Defendant signed an Application Form for a credit card facility to be provided by Claimant. (Exhibit 1)

 

3 Provision of this credit facility was dependant upon a satisfactory credit record being obtained by the Claimant from one or more Credit Reference Agencies, and upon other lending decision criteria. The Application Form was therefore a pre-contractual agreement to enter into a prospective full-regulated credit agreement with the Claimant in the event that the Defendant’s application was successful.

 

4 The Application Form contained a clause, which included the following statement -

'Please issue me with an additional Barclaycard for use on the account(s) to which this application relates. I accept to be bound by the Barclaycard Conditions of use'. As such, the application purports to bind the Defendant to the terms and conditions of any prospective credit agreement with the Claimant.

 

5 Section 59 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that 'an agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.’ The Defendant therefore contends that this pre-contractual document, not being a regulated credit agreement in itself, and insofar as it purports to bind the Defendant to the terms of an actual prospective regulated credit agreement, is void and of no effect.

 

[end quote] forumbox_top_left.gifforumbox_top_tile.gifforumbox_top_right.gifforumbox_left_tile.gif

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may be wrong but it seems to me that clause 4 is asking for a SECOND CARDHOLDER to sign for a second card- could be wrong of course

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bugger- i was expecting a rendition from Hamlet!

:lol: Sorry to disappoint, but the defence quote might be more useful;)

 

An agreement or a pre-contractual application form? That is the question....

 

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous creditors or to take arms against a sea of debts and by defending end them.

 

To defend, perchance to win - 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished.

 

Sorry, just couldn't resist:p

Edited by underdog13
added more nonsense - sorry Sunflower! ; )
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may be wrong but it seems to me that clause 4 is asking for a SECOND CARDHOLDER to sign for a second card- could be wrong of course

 

Agree 4 does seem to relate to a second cardholder, but I know there are many similar quotes on my application forms that refer to the main cardholder. I have long wondered about this - they refer you to the T&Cs, but I know I never received any T&Cs until my card arrived, so how could I agree to something I have never seen?

 

Well worth eveyone having another squint at their agreements, I would think.....

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:lol: Sorry to disappoint, but the defence quote might be more useful;)

 

An agreement or a pre-contractual application form? That is the question....

 

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous creditors or to take arms against a sea of debts and by defending end them.

 

To defend, perchance to win - 'tis a consumation devoutly to be wished.

 

Sorry, just couldn't resist:p

 

perfect underdog - just perfect

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Agree 4 does seem to relate to a second cardholder, but I know there are many similar quotes on my application forms that refer to the main cardholder. I have long wondered about this - they refer you to the T&Cs, but I know I never received any T&Cs until my card arrived, so how could I agree to something I have never seen?

 

Well worth eveyone having another squint at their agreements, I would think.....

Hi Undedog and diddydickey!

Yes that is an interesting point :D As you say they often refer to terms that were clearly not present on same document when card was signed for!

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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:D Why, thank you!.... [takes a thespian bow]:p

 

Now I'd better stop clogging up this thread - or I'm going to get cagboted:oops:

yes sorry for that folks! :)but CitB was getting a bit concerned that my legal thread was getting to big for me to get help easily and that the length of it might deter some legal peep from gettinting involved to help on thread but i am sorry about it and hope no one offended,Snoops has told me to do some revision on some of the dn notice laws etc! \I wonder what the next stage will be?I suppose Restons get a note about my embarresssed defence and repond to it and we get AQ forms !

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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