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1st credit and Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card


hunterandthehunted
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Civil Evidence act 1995 is in the link below

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/162535-documents-court-civil-evidence.html

 

also have a look at this, just for information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2561286.html

 

Right as for your Witness statement and other documents. Until you have drafted your WS, you DONT know what documents you will require. So there is no need to go copying everything in sight.

 

When you have WS drafted up, then we can go through it with you and check what you will need to include.

 

 

What exactly are LTSB attempting to have struck out ?

 

thanks for the links, will have a read.

WS posted up in post 370 and vjohn helped me with it and amended and is in post 379.

ltsb are attempting the have set aside condition 2 b) of the directions which is providing a default notice.

they are saying that they only have to satisfy the court that one has been served

regards

hunterandthehunted

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well they would

 

 

Quote:

SCHEDULE 2

FORM OF DEFAULT NOTICE BEFORE A CREDITOR OR OWNER CAN BECOME ENTITLED, BY REASON OF ANY BREACH BY THE

DEBTOR OR HIRER OF A REGULATED AGREEEMENT, TO TERMINATE THE AGREEMENT, DEMAND EARLIER PAYMENT OF ANY

SUM, RECOVER POSSESSION OF ANY GOODS OR LAND, TREAT ANY RIGHT CONFERRED ON THE DEBTOR OR HIRER BY THE

AGREEMENT AS TERMINATED, RESTRICTED OR DEFERRED OR ENFORCE ANY SECURITY

Regulation 2(2)

Details of agreement

 

1

A description of the agreement sufficient to identify it.

 

Parties to agreement

2

(1) The name and a postal address of the creditor or owner.

(2) The name and postal address of the debtor or hirer.

 

Details of breach of agreement and action required to remedy, or pay compensation for, the breach

3

A specification of:--

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than

fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and

the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

 

relevant case law is this too...

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

 

The Need for a Default notice

Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the petition.

It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant

Notwithstanding the above points, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119

__

 

 

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thanks for the links, will have a read.

WS posted up in post 370 and vjohn helped me with it and amended and is in post 379.

ltsb are attempting the have set aside condition 2 b) of the directions which is providing a default notice.

they are saying that they only have to satisfy the court that one has been served

 

Easily rebuked as per lily's post

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Easily rebuked as per lily's post

 

i have a hearing in february regarding the set aside application from ****

(unable to supply default notice ) so i can use lillys post then prehaps is there any thing in the CCA act regarding this as no doubt it will have to be worked in the WS

regards

hunterandthehunted

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i have a hearing in february regarding the set aside application from ****

(unable to supply default notice ) so i can use lillys post then prehaps is there any thing in the CCA act regarding this as no doubt it will have to be worked in the WS

 

Well the parts Lily mentioned really.. section 87 etc... they are fairly straightforward points of the law and they carry a fair bit of weight in my experience.

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Well the parts Lily mentioned really.. section 87 etc... they are fairly straightforward points of the law and they carry a fair bit of weight in my experience.

 

right i got section 87,88 and 89 printed off, can you work this in to the

WS with the legal jargon please

regards

hunterandthehunted

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thanks vjohn,

been reading CCA 1974, i know about the updates etc... in 2006

but whats CCA 1983 all about?

The 2006 update only really affects section 127... I doubt it applies in your case.

 

Similarly for the 1983 Act... it's not really relevant I don't think other than adjustments for inflation. The CCA 1974 required the section 77/78/79 requests to be carried out for 15 pence or something. Obviously that wouldn't even cover printing and postage costs nowadays.

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Have worked in the Default parts... others may wish to contribute because I have had to do this rather quick :-)

 

 

Witness Statement

1.I, hunterandthehunted of CAG Forums, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement in reference to the claim made by Lloyds TSB as required in the Court’s Order of [insert date].

 

2.I make this witness statement in support of my application to have the case submitted by Lloyds TSB bank plc, struck out for failing to comply with the order made by District Judge NAME on DATE.

 

3.Except where otherwise mentioned I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

4.The matters referred to in this witness statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. Where any matters contained in this witness statement are not within my own knowledge, I have stated the source of my information.

 

5.All of the exhibits referred to are from the bundle disclosed to me marked H&H and their related document numbers can be found at the bottom right hand of each page.

 

6.On the xxxxxxxxx I wrote to Lloyds TSB requesting a true copy of the Credit Agreement pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Exhibit HH1). Lloyds TSB replied to my request on the xxxxxxxxxx supplying an Application Form on what appears to be microfiche. (Exhibit HH2).

 

7.The Defendant admits that they signed a document provided by Lloyds TSB. It is not admitted that the Defendant signed an agreement with Lloyds TSB.

 

8.It is admitted that, in the sense that the Defendant applied for and was given a credit card, that there was an agreement between the Defendant and Lloyds TSB. The Defendant does not admit that such agreement was reduced to writing.

 

9.The precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement and is put to strict proof that a written agreement is in existence. If, which is not admitted, there is a written agreement in existence, it is admitted that such an agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

10.Any such regulated agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must be signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor and the creditor or owner, embody all the terms of the agreement, and be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible when presented for signature.

 

11.Under S61 of the Act, any agreement regulated by the Act, must contain certain Prescribed Terms under regulations made by the Secretary of State under S 60(1). These Prescribed Terms are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are terms stating the credit limit, the rate of interest; and repayment terms.

 

12.The prescribed terms must be within the agreement and not in a separate document for it to be compliant with s60 (1). [Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299]. Further, if the agreement does not contain these terms in the prescribed manner and does not comply with s60(1), it is improperly executed and only enforceable by court order [Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)].

 

13.Further, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No. 1557 requires that the lettering in every copy of an executed agreement be easily legible. It is denied that the ‘Agreement’ Exhibit HH2 produced by the Claimant is an agreement within the terms of the Act.

 

14.The document states clearly that it is an Application Form. The Defendant asserts that most of the document is not easily legible and does not appear to contain the prescribed terms.

 

15.The Defendant would like to point out to the Court that the particular account the Claimant has produced an application for was opened in June 2002 and closed in early 2003. No credit agreement for any account has been supplied to the Defendant and the Claimant is put to strict proof that such a document exists.

 

16.On the 17 May 2009 I sent the Claimant a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, for a list of transactions and charges. On the 29 June 2009 I received statements for the period covering July 2003 to July 2004 (Exhibit HH3).

 

17.On the 19 July 2009 I sent the Claimant a second Subject Access Request pointing out that statements were incomplete (Exhibit HH4). I received a second set of statements exactly the same as the previous set.

 

18.On the 13 August 2009 a third Subject Access Request was sent to Lloyds TSB asking for specific statements dated for the period June 2002 to July 2003 (Exhibit HHclip_image001.gif . I received a third set of statements on the 15 September 2009 dated from September 2003 to October 2004 (Exhibit HH9).

 

19.On the 31 July 2009 I received a Claim Form from Lloyds TSB for a debt totalling xxxxxxxxxx (Exhibit HH5). In the Particulars of Claim, it is referred to as a Lloyds Asset card and refers to clause 7, 8 and 9 of the agreement. However the document provided by the Claimant, Exhibit HH2, does not include clauses 7, 8 and 9 (Exhibit HH6) and therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof of how these documents are in anyway linked.

 

20.The Particulars of Claim refers to a Default Notice which was allegedly issued in September 2006 but the claimant has already admitted they do not keep copies and cannot provide one (Exhibit HH7).

 

21. According to the Particulars of Claim “the Defendant has defaulted in his payment and is in breach of the payment clause of the Agreement.” It is denied that the Defendant neither defaulted nor is in breach of any Agreement and the Claimant is put to strict proof that any such breach has occurred.

22. A default notice is a required by section 87(1) of the Act before a creditor can become entitled to take any action in respect of a regulated credit agreement.

 

23. Furthermore s section 88(1) of the Act requires that a default notice must be in the prescribed form. The prescribed format for a default notice is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237).

 

24. By Regulation 2(2) of these regulations, any Default Notice must include both a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it and the name and a postal address of the creditor or owner.

 

25. By section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978, a posted document is deemed to have been served at the time when it would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

26. The Claimant has failed to produce a Default Notice in accordance with the Act and association Regulations and I put the Claimant to strict proof that it was served correctly, in the prescribed format served sufficiently so that the step of remedy to the default could have been taken.

 

27. The Claimant therefore is put to strict proof that the Default Notice was served properly under the requirements prescribed to lawfully terminate the account in question. It is respectfully asserted that if such a document was not served then the Claimant's actions could be considered vexatious.

 

28. On the 27th October 2009 district judge xxxxxxxxxx in the xxxxxxxxxx county court ordered that the claim be allocated to fast track and the parties give standard disclosure to all parties by serving copies with a disclosure statement by 4pm by the 13th November 2009 and in particular the claimant shall disclose (Exhibit HH10)

 

a) copies of the credit agreement and any documents referred to within it.

b) default notice

c) statements dated from June 2002 to November 2006

 

26.The Defendant would like to draw to the courts attention to the following matter. The Claimant has failed to supply the Defendant any documents mentioned in their Particulars of claim and which are of central importance to the Claimant’s case. The Defendant asked for the documents via a CPR 31.14 request (Exhibit HH11) which were pleaded in the claim on 31 July 2009 but the Claimant has failed to supply these documents.

27.Despite repeated requests for key statements for the account the Claimant has only provided statements for the period covering July 2003 to October 2004 and has failed to comply with a court order made on the 27th October by District Judge xxxxxxxxxx to disclose statements covering the period from June 2002 to November 2006.

 

28.The Claimant is fully aware that I am a litigant in person and therefore I have been placed at a disadvantage by their failings. I have been unable to compile a fully particularised defence to this action and therefore do not know what exact case I have to meet.

AND the Defendant

29.Seeks an order that the Claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise is dismissed on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs.

 

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thanks vjohn,

i will get the WS statement in the post tomorrow so any more additions

amendments and edits will have to be done today....

 

No problem... I can look a little later tonight... I will read through some more of your documents to see if I can amend anything.

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here is my WS which was put together with the help of vjohn.

i have highlighted all the exhibits in red and have highlighted some legislation in brown which i need to print from somewhere

as i will be referring to it.

 

could someone cast there expert eye and advice if it is good enough and more importantly if there is anything missing.

 

WITNESS STATEMENT

 

1. I hunterandthehunted of CAG Forums, am the defendant in this action and make the following statement in reference to the claim made by Lloyds TSB as required in the Court’s Order of [insert date].

 

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3.The matters referred to in this witness statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. Where any matters contained in this witness statement are not within my own knowledge, I have stated the source of my information.

 

4. All of the exhibits referred to are from the bundle disclosed to me marked H&H and their related document numbers can be found at the bottom right hand of each page.

 

5. On the xxxxxxxxx I wrote to Lloyds TSB requesting a true copy of the Credit Agreement pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Exhibit HH1).

 

6. Lloyds TSB replied to my request on the xxxxxxxxxx supplying an Application Form on what appears to be microfiche. (Exhibit HH2).

7. The Defendant admits that they signed a document provided by Lloyds TSB. It is not admitted that the Defendant signed an agreement with Lloyds TSB.

 

8. It is admitted that, in the sense that the Defendant applied for and was given a credit card, that there was an agreement between the Defendant and Lloyds TSB. The Defendant does not admit that such agreement was reduced to writing.

 

9. The precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement and is put to strict proof that a written agreement is in existence. If, which is not admitted, there is a written agreement in existence, it is admitted that such an agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act).

 

10. Any such regulated agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must be signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor and the creditor or owner, embody all the terms of the agreement, and be in such a state that all its terms are readily legible when presented for signature.

 

11. Under S61 of the Act,(Exhibit HH3) any agreement regulated by the Act, must contain certain Prescribed Terms under regulations made by the Secretary of State under S 60(1) ,(Exhibit HH4) .These Prescribed Terms are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) (Exhibit HH5) and are terms stating the credit limit, the rate of interest; and repayment terms.

 

12. The prescribed terms must be within the agreement and not in a separate document for it to be compliant with s60 (1). ,(Exhibit HH4) [Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299]. Further, if the agreement does not contain these terms in the prescribed manner and does not comply with s60(1),(Exhibit HH4) it is improperly executed and only enforceable by court order [Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)].

 

13. Further, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No. 1557(Exhibit HH6) requires that the lettering in every copy of an executed agreement be easily legible. It is denied that the ‘Agreement’ ,(Exhibit HH2) produced by the Claimant is an agreement within the terms of the Act.

 

14. The document states clearly that it is an Application Form. The Defendant asserts that most of the document is not easily legible and does not appear to contain the prescribed terms.

 

15. The Defendant would like to point out to the Court that the particular account the Claimant has produced an application for was opened in June 2002 and closed in early 2003. No credit agreement for any account has been supplied to the Defendant and the Claimant is put to strict proof that such a document exists.

 

16. On the 17 May 2009 I sent Lloyds TSB a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, for a list of transactions and charges (Exhibit HH7). On the 29 June 2009 I received statements for the period covering July 2003 to July 2004.

 

17. On the 19 July 2009 I sent Lloyds TSB a second Subject Access Request pointing out that statements were incomplete (Exhibit HH8 I received a second set of statements exactly the same as the previous set.

 

18. On the 13 August 2009 a third Subject Access Request was sent to Lloyds TSB asking for specific statements dated for the period June 2002 to July 2003 (Exhibit HH9). I received a third set of statements on the 15 September 2009 dated from September 2003 to October 2004.

 

19. On the 31 July 2009 I received a Claim Form from Lloyds TSB for a debt totalling xxxxxxxxxx (Exhibit HH10). In the Particulars of Claim, it is referred to as a Lloyds Asset card and also refers to clause 7, 8 and 9 of the agreement. However the document provided by the Claimant, (Exhibit HH2) does not include clauses 7, 8 and 9 and also states Lloyds TSB platinum card. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof of how these documents are in anyway linked.

 

 

20. On the claim form (Exhibit HH10) the Particulars of Claim refers to a Default Notice which was allegedly issued in September 2006. The claimant has admitted on there filing of standard disclosure (Exhibit HH11) (which was filed a week late) that the original application form/agreement was copied onto microfiche and subsequently destroyed. The claimant has also admitted in an application to set aside (Exhibit HH12) they do not keep copies and therefore cannot back up there claim that a default notice was ever issued.

 

 

21. On the claim form (Exhibit HH10) according to the particulars of claim the defendant has defaulted in his payment and is in breach of the payment clause of the agreement. It is denied that the defendant neither defaulted nor is not in any breach of any agreement and the claimant is put to strict proof that any such breach has occurred.

 

22. A default notice is a required by section 87(1) of the Act (Exhibit HH13) before a creditor can become entitled to take any action in respect of a regulated credit agreement.

 

23. Furthermore section 88(1) of the Act (Exhibit HH14) requires that a default notice must be in the prescribed form. The prescribed format for a default notice is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) (Exhibit HH15) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)(Exhibit HH16) .

 

24. By regulation 2(2) of these regulations, any default notice must include both a description of the agreement sufficient to identify it and the name and postal address of the creditor or owner.

 

 

25. The Claimant has failed to produce a Default Notice in accordance with the Act and association Regulations and I put the Claimant to strict proof that it was served correctly, in the prescribed format served sufficiently so that the step of remedy to the default could have been taken.

 

26. The Claimant therefore is put to strict proof that the Default Notice was served properly under the requirements prescribed to lawfully terminate the account in question. It is respectfully asserted that if such a document was not served then the Claimant's actions could be considered vexatious.

 

27. On the 27th October 2009 district judge xxxxxxxxxx in the xxxxxxxxxx county court ordered that the claim be allocated to fast track and the parties give standard disclosure to all parties by serving copies with a disclosure statement by 4pm by the 13th November 2009 and in particular the claimant shall disclose (Exhibit HH17)

 

a) copies of the credit agreement and any documents referred to within it.

b) default notice

c) statements dated from June 2002 to November 2006

 

28.The Defendant would like to draw to the courts attention to the following matter. The Claimant has failed to supply the Defendant any of the documents mentioned in their Particulars of claim and which are of central importance to the Claimant’s case. The Defendant asked for the documents via a CPR 31.14 request (Exhibit HH18 which were pleaded in the claim on 31 July 2009 but the Claimant has failed to supply these documents.

 

29. Despite repeated requests for key statements for the account the Claimant has only provided statements for the period covering July 2003 to November 2006 and has failed to comply with a court order made on the 27th October by District Judge xxxxxxxxxx to disclose statements covering the period from June 2002 to November 2006. (Exhibit HH17)

 

 

30.The Claimant is fully aware that I am a litigant in person and therefore I have been placed at a disadvantage by their failings. I have been unable to compile a fully particularised defence to this action and therefore do not know what exact case I have to meet.

 

31. The Defendant seeks an order that the claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise dismissed on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed and that the Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs.

 

32. I respectfully request the right to amend my witness statement upon the receipt of the documents that the claimant has failed to provide by order of the court on the 27 October 2009 (Exhibit HH17).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by hunterandthehunted
removed and amended

regards

hunterandthehunted

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Rock and roll

 

well done ok h are you happy and quit clear what is been said

 

and thanks to vj well done

 

i am getting the picture lilly, thanks.

i highlighted some legislation in brown which i have given an exhibit number but am struggling to find it.

the printer is warming up and i will need to get it all done tonight to post tomorrow in time for fridays

deadline.

regards

hunterandthehunted

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Rock and roll

 

well done ok h are you happy and quit clear what is been said

 

and thanks to vj well done

 

That's what my scales are for ;-) lol

 

Seriously... any other questions just ask HH... I will be about most of the night :-)

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yep another question

 

where can i find these pieces of law so i can print them off.

 

1/ Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

2/ Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 04/3237).

3/ the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No. 1557

 

 

big hello to the 2 guests

Edited by hunterandthehunted

regards

hunterandthehunted

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just had another thought about the application/agreement in post 1.

although you cant see it because i blanked out the number, in the top

right hand side of the page there is a designated box for the bank to write the

number in.

the last to digits have been scribbled out and another number has been written exactly underneath.

the last 2 digits are differant which backs up my claim i hope.

also nobody initialed or signed the mistake.

 

i hope it makes sense i could post it up if it could help

regards

hunterandthehunted

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