1st credit and Lloyds TSB Platinum credit card

[citizenB]

You will need to provide your witness statement along with all the exhibits mentioned within that WS.

[hunterandthehunted]

You will need to provide your witness statement along with all the exhibits mentioned within that WS.

 

is that to the court and ****??

 

the posty has just delivered a huge bundle from ****.

they have apologized for the delay in providing standard disclosure and are suggesting that the date get put back to december for the exchange of WS in order for me to consider the documents enclosed.( not falling for that one)

 

anyway i went straight for statements dated june 2002 to july 2003 and

"surprise suprise" they have not been included...

 

i notice when they filed their AQ they have stated that they would like a months stay to attempt to settle but they have not

even responded to my offer sent in october.

 

DOUBLE STRIKE OUT

 

**** have admitted in disclosure that they do not have the original agreement as it was transfered to microfische and subsequentely distroyed

[kel123]

Because of the word 'should' instead of shall it is up to the discression of the DJ to accept or reject a copy of the agreement. My DJ at the SJ accepted a copy as compliance.

 

[problem] said exactly the same on mine - it is playing upto to the judge bullsh*t and they got their 1 months stay.

 

kel

[Craftygirl42]

My claimant requested a stay on their AQ to try to come up with an arrangement and the judge didnt allow it. Perhaps the Judges sometimes see this as a time wasting exercise

[vjohn82]

Because of the word 'should' instead of shall it is up to the discression of the DJ to accept or reject a copy of the agreement. My DJ at the SJ accepted a copy as compliance.

 

[problem] said exactly the same on mine - it is playing upto to the judge bullsh*t and they got their 1 months stay.

 

kel

 

You should have appealed then... Civil Procedure Rules state that the original documents must be attached to the claim form. That said there are disgraceful judgements being handed out left, right and centre these days. However the appeals process is always a route which one should consider.

[kel123]

You should have appealed then... Civil Procedure Rules state that the original documents must be attached to the claim form. That said there are disgraceful judgements being handed out left, right and centre these days. However the appeals process is always a route which one should consider.

 

With the exception of Northampton Bulk clearing centre, which is why they use it!

[vjohn82]

With the exception of Northampton Bulk clearing centre, which is why they use it!

 

Always, always, always get it away from Northampton lol

[hunterandthehunted]

vjohn,

 

could i ask you to look at the application/agreement i received (post 1)

regarding prescribed terms etc...

[vjohn82]

vjohn,

 

could i ask you to look at the application/agreement i received (post 1)

regarding prescribed terms etc...

 

Little tough to read it but I cannot see prescribed terms on there... there is also no reference to the terms supplied (i.e. page 2 of 2 for example).

 

The terms supplied are also noted at the top "Bank Copy" - you don't want the bank's copy do you ;-)

 

I will have a more in dept look later on but see if you can have a look through my HFO thread again and look at how I have resized the signature box... we need to look for something called "application" on it... then section 59 of the CCA will apply.

[hunterandthehunted]

deleted post

Edited November 24, 2009 by hunterandthehunted

[citizenB]

is that to the court and ****??

 

Yes, you need to have 3 x bundles one for you, one for them and one for the court. Do make sure you send the bank's special delivery and check they have received it.

 

the posty has just delivered a huge bundle from ****.

they have apologized for the delay in providing standard disclosure and are suggesting that the date get put back to december for the exchange of WS in order for me to consider the documents enclosed.( not falling for that one)

 

anyway i went straight for statements dated june 2002 to july 2003 and

"surprise suprise" they have not been included...

 

i notice when they filed their AQ they have stated that they would like a months stay to attempt to settle but they have not

even responded to my offer sent in october.

 

DOUBLE STRIKE OUT

 

This is something only you can decide. Do you need the time to consider the documents or perhaps ask for those you dont have ?

 

So, has there already been a stay of one month ?

 

**** have admitted in disclosure that they do not have the original agreement as it was transfered to microfische and subsequentely distroyed

 

Then either the Civil Evidence Act or an affidavit is going to be required.

 

H&H, it is interesting they have provided you with the "bank's copy.. you would have signed and returned any document, unless of course it was a carbonised document. Which they arent. So how come they dont have a copy of the "customer" copy ??

 

You may well have to invoke the Civil Evidence Act ?. Do you have a link to that, if not I will find it for you.

[hunterandthehunted]

oh dear i dont think my printer is going to cope with all this. is there

not anything in the environment act about all this paper being wasted.

 

to answer your question

yes please send me the link, i assume that has to go in my WS, talking of which have i got to include the cca act 1974 and all the court cases etc..

where do i get all this from???

 

ta

 

 

So, has there already been a stay of one month ?

not that i know of. they havent officially requested the date be put back.

 

 

Then either the Civil Evidence Act or an affidavit is going to be required.

 

H&H, it is interesting they have provided you with the "bank's copy.. you would have signed and returned any document, unless of course it was a carbonised document. Which they arent. So how come they dont have a copy of the "customer" copy ?? :confused:

 

You may well have to invoke the Civil Evidence Act ?. Do you have a link to that, if not I will find it for you.

thanks

[vjohn82]

oh dear i dont think my printer is going to cope with all this. is there

not anything in the environment act about all this paper being wasted.

 

to answer your question

yes please send me the link, i assume that has to go in my WS, talking of which have i got to include the cca act 1974 and all the court cases etc..

where do i get all this from???

 

ta

 

You just need to make a list of all of the case law and all of the legislation you are referring to... then you do some googling

 

OR

 

I'm sure some of us can point you to the PDF links.

 

I might be wrong but I do not think you have to actually print the entire CCA... only the parts relevant to your case.

[citizenB]

So I dont lose where I am. I am just making a tick list

 

Questions that need answering.

 

Do you need to print off all the CCA1974 and amendments or just the bits you are quoting.

 

Should you agree to a stay that LTSB have suggested in order to consider the documents you have received from them.

 

Letter to court, instead of a N244 application.

 

Exchanging Witness statements, how is this done simultaneously ?

 

Civil evidence act link required.. citizenb looking

[lilly white]

H are you well.

 

which cca did they send in the bundle.

 

also any default notice

 

regards lilly.

[hunterandthehunted]

hi lilly,

they sent exactly the same as in post 1 but there are some extra pages

which states customer copy and covers clauses 7,8 and 9.

however these were a panthlete opened out and photo copied, defenately not part of the agreement.

 

no default notice, **** applying for set aside on that one. (they dont keep copies)

 

could i get something in about irresponsible lending and the code of practice in my WS. can only divulge reasons via PM if anyone thinks

this would help

[kel123]

The opening of these accounts went like this

 

Signed application form in branch (no copy given) some freebees if stocks were available, folder etc

 

Card and credit agreement sent through post, credit agreement is in a booklet form. Probably what you are calling customer copy H&H, i'll bet it says customer agreement somewhere at the top. And if like me the first time you saw this 'credit agreement' was when [problem] sent it to you?

 

One thing of note - the microfitch numbers are consecutive in post 1, so it can easily be argued that they are related and I am betting that on the front it says somewhere T&C on reverce, therefore the prescribed terms are within the document. However if the booklet they sent you does have your name and address on and says here is your credit agreement, which is which

 

I am going to try and keep out of advising because too many cooks etc but I will chip in with support - All three of us seem in similar positions that me, you and Tonks

 

Kel

[hunterandthehunted]

The opening of these accounts went like this

 

Signed application form in branch (no copy given) some freebees if stocks were available, folder etc

 

Card and credit agreement sent through post, credit agreement is in a booklet form. Probably what you are calling customer copy H&H, i'll bet it says customer agreement somewhere at the top. And if like me the first time you saw this 'credit agreement' was when [problem] sent it to you?

 

One thing of note - the microfitch numbers are consecutive in post 1, so it can easily be argued that they are related and I am betting that on the front it says somewhere T&C on reverce, therefore the prescribed terms are within the document. However if the booklet they sent you does have your name and address on and says here is your credit agreement, which is which

 

I am going to try and keep out of advising because too many cooks etc but I will chip in with support - All three of us seem in similar positions that me, you and Tonks

 

Kel

 

correct on all counts

 

but my arguement is "wheres the whole years worth of missing statements"

if they provide those then it will be clear cut that i settled in full and closed the account.

yes i re-opened in july 2003 but its not what the agreement says;)

 

contary to what you say i think the more people pipe in the better, it gets more people involved when others disapear and then they re-appear. its like buses on here sometimes:lol:

 

oh! and thanks

Edited November 24, 2009 by hunterandthehunted
manners

[citizenB]

H&H, yes, I agree those missing statements are important if they show the account was closed.

 

Do you have a kind of diary of events, where they have recorded things like letters sent, calls made etc.. there may be a reference to the closure on there somewhere.

 

Is it this Friday you need to have that witness statement submitted by ?

 

I dont think you need to copy case law/statute for your Witness statement. Only the letters /documents you are going to refer to. So, for instance if you mention that you sent them a SAR on the 12 Of whenever, you need to give that an Exhibit number, copy it and attach IYKWIM.

 

Be back with the Civil Evidence act in a minute.

[vjohn82]

could i get something in about irresponsible lending and the code of practice in my WS. can only divulge reasons via PM if anyone thinks

this would help

 

These sort of reasons are for either why you took out the debt... or why you couldn't pay for whatever reason.

 

Personally speaking I do not think it is relevant... after all you are agreeing that you entered into an arrangement with the Claimant (as proved via the Application Form) but you are denying this was ever transferred into a regulated credit agreement under the CCA 1974.

 

The reasons why you took the credit should not be relevant for trying to strike out their case on the basis of their crap evidence. Never forget what the aim of the case is... their documents cannot be enforced in the format they are in... you shouldn't need to pour your heart out to prove this to the judge.

 

Only my opinion of course

[citizenB]

Civil Evidence act 1995 is in the link below

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/162535-documents-court-civil-evidence.html

 

also have a look at this, just for information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2561286.html

 

Right as for your Witness statement and other documents. Until you have drafted your WS, you DONT know what documents you will require. So there is no need to go copying everything in sight.

 

When you have WS drafted up, then we can go through it with you and check what you will need to include.

 

 

What exactly are LTSB attempting to have struck out ?

[lilly white]

H belive me vj is correct.

 

ok what to do

 

1 go for strike out

 

2 defend on

 

only application

default notice.

no cca.

 

what is the worst can happen strike out do not get it lose i belive £75+ poss cost. then defend

 

defend put to strict proof.

 

if it was me i would do witness statment and ask for strick out please i am not in uk at moment find hard to get this laptop to work.

 

regards lilly

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2597164.html

 

The letter in the link above.. your application to have the case thrown out. It has been advised that a letter may work. However, if the Judge then decides that it needs to be put on an N244 it could delay things a bit.

[hunterandthehunted]

H&H, yes, I agree those missing statements are important if they show the account was closed.

 

Do you have a kind of diary of events, where they have recorded things like letters sent, calls made etc.. there may be a reference to the closure on there somewhere.

Is it this Friday you need to have that witness statement submitted by ?

yes but in the bundle which came today **** have asked for date to be put back ( shoud'nt they apply to the court )

 

I dont think you need to copy case law/statute for your Witness statement. Only the letters /documents you are going to refer to. So, for instance if you mention that you sent them a SAR on the 12 Of whenever, you need to give that an Exhibit number, copy it and attach IYKWIM.

ok whats iykwim

 

 

Be back with the Civil Evidence act in a minute.

ta

citizen i would like to get it in by friday with the right to amend if **** file theres in middle december. i can then

add this to the letter giving more meat to the strike out

Edited November 24, 2009 by hunterandthehunted

[citizenB]

If You Know What I Mean:D

 

Yes, they should apply to the court to have the case moved to different date, however, if it can be agreed between the two of you then all then I think that saves LTSB having to apply formally which would cost them money I think ?

 

It might be a good idea to phone the court in the moring and say this is what LTSB has proposed. Have they asked the court, do they have to advise the court, what is the procedure, etc.

 

You dont want to agree to something and then find out the court hasnt been advised.