MBNA Credit Card / CCA - quick query

[masjntt]

Hi

 

My uncle has lost his job and is claiming JSA. He cannot manage on the JSA and has recently built up 2 months of arrears on his MBNA card. We have worked his expenditure out and he simply cannot make any repayments at the moment nor token payments unless he finds work, unlikely given his age.

 

He owns his own property and is worried he may be forced to sell. We were previously advised to send off a CCA request. This was signed for on 28/04/09.

 

My uncle has received a payment chasing letter dated 25/04 and a second one dated 2/5. I know that they still have time to produce the CCA but I just wanted to know what we should be doing in the mean time should we write and tell them he cant make any repayments & send details of his income/expenditure, or should we reply saying we are awaiting details of CCA and will not be making payment or contact until we have a response from MBNA ???

 

Just unclear what to be doing whilst we are waiting

Thanks x

[davey77]

Personally i would leave it. It's not advisable to stop paying in anticipation of a creditor failing to supply the agreement within the required time frame but really your uncle has only a matter of a week or so before the account is in dispute anyway.

 

MBNA are notorious for not having proper agreements (especially the older ones).

 

The late payment letters are computer generated and standard stuff.

 

If your uncle is concerned about doing everything above board and keeping the creditor informed to show his honest intentions and co-operation etc (until they default on the CCA request which they will) then you could send a letter informing them of his circumstances (if he hasn't done so already).

 

No need to do an I&E form (they will ask for one anyway but by then they will be in default).

Something like this but amend to suit your uncles personal circumstances:

 

"I am writing to inform you of a recent change in my circumstances after (add reason: losing job/benefits etc). I therefore find i am unable to continue to make further payments regarding the above card.

 

I anticipated to regain an income before now but it hasn’t materialised and am now earnestly looking for employment again and a change of career with the view to full time work and a return to a decent wage as soon as is possible.

 

I am unable to make token payments at this time due to priority debts and a lack of disposable income until my financial situation has improved and will be writing to my other creditors asking for reduced payments also.

 

In view of my dire circumstances please would you please freeze interest and charges for the time being.

 

Should my situation improve I will of course inform you promptly.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

PRiNT NAME (dont' sign)

 

How old is this account and what's the balance roughly?

[masjntt]

Thank you Davey77, I think a basic letter like you suggested would make my uncle feel slightly more at ease so will get something sent off after the weekend to him and in the mean time see if they are able to comply with the CCA.

 

My uncle owes just under 13k on the card, the account was opened approx 2-3 years ago.

 

Cheers x

[davey77]

Remember he shouldn't sign anything. Print or digital signature only and send by recorded delivery.

 

Should this ever proceed to anywhere near Court that recorded delivery letter keeping the creditor informed and not ignoring the problem will show a Judge your uncle has behaved properly and could help in keeping MBNA's dirty mitts off his properly.

[masjntt]

thank you x have set up a folder with all correspondence & proof of postage etc as i know sometimes things can be hard to track, appreciate you help x

[davey77]

It's good to keep track and know where you can find things for sure.

 

I gave some info on this link re getting organised which you may find useful as well.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/effects-debt-health-lifestyle/191237-just-gets-worse-debt-2.html#post2066935

[masjntt]

cheers for that x

[masjntt]

Hiya

 

As of Monday 18th - MBNA will have defaulted on the CCA request, they have still been sending computer generated reminder letters & statements but no direct response to the CCA request.

 

My uncle hasnt contacted them at all since the original CCA letter - what should our next course of action be - is it a non compliance letter ?? Should he write also and explain his financial circumstances??

 

Sorry just a little confused as to what to do next

Thanks x

[vint1954]

The next step should be account in dispute letter.

 

Letter template below.

 

Letter used when a company fail to provide a copy of your agreement within the 12+2 working days timescale after your initial request for a copy of your agreement made under s 77/8 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Highlights in red must be edited)

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/ enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[masjntt]

Thanks vint1954 , will send letter off recorded del x

[vint1954]

Thanks vint1954 , will send letter off recorded del x

No problem.

 

All letter templates are stored on the site.

 

Vint

[Mightyacorn]

The next step should be account in dispute letter.

 

Letter template below.

 

Letter used when a company fail to provide a copy of your agreement within the 12+2 working days timescale after your initial request for a copy of your agreement made under s 77/8 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Highlights in red must be edited)

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/ enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

You do all that, the 20 days are up, no reponse, what's the next move please?

[Talbot]

not a lot, wait for there response

[Mightyacorn]

not a lot, wait for there response

 

20 days up no response, now what please?

[Talbot]

if they haven't complied you are not legible to pay anything back, they will contact you trust me but hey if they don't happy days.

[masjntt]

Hi

 

The title is quite self explanatory lol

I was previously advised to send a CCA request for my uncles MBNA credit card as he is experiencing financial probs. I did this and the CCA request was signed for on 28/04/09.

 

We did not get any response so I was then advised to send the Non compliance letter / Acount in dispute. I did this mid May and to date have not had any response in relation to the CCA request or non compliance.

 

My uncle is still receiving monthly statements which show his arrears and also payment chasing letters but all so far appear computer generated stuff.

 

Im just unclear as what to be doing if anything until we get a response to the CCA? All letters have been sent recorded delivery and have been received & signed for.

 

Thanks x

Edited June 19, 2009 by masjntt
edited

[steven4064]

What do you want the CCA for?

[masjntt]

I was advised on a previous thread to request a CCA to see if they had an enforceable agreement as my uncle is experiencing financial probs and is in arrears with his repayments .

[masjntt]

**BUMP** Still need some advice on this pls x

[haggis1984]

Check out my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/204693-haggis-mbna-enforceable-agreement.html

 

 

Im in exact same position as you - 2 CCA letters send and no replys.

Ive just send of a request for the credit agreement under CPR 31.16.

 

Have a read of the link below on CPR31.16 -

 

PT's 31.16 thread

 

and see the result -

 

** ORDER TO PRODUCE CCA CPR31.16 WIN ***

[masjntt]

Thanks for that will have a read x

[masjntt]

I sent a CCA request to MBNA in April and a non compliance / account in dispute letter mid May.

 

To date they havent complied or acknowledged my requests despite them being sent recorded delivery.

 

They have sent a letter requesting we make contact within 7 days with offer of a payment plan. I have worked a budget planner out but initially we were advised to see if an enforceable CCA could be produced as our first course of action

 

Further background info can be found below if necessary x

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/205368-mbna-no-response-cca.html

 

How should I respond?

Thanks x

[mauricetura]

PM me please, ask for a template witness statement and join the fight.

In our case, no agreement has been produced and that hasnt stopped them defaulting and harassing.

 

Join the fight - I need all of you

[masjntt]

Will do so now Thank you x

[masjntt]

I have been dealing with my uncles debts since April. We wrote to MBNA to request a CCA as my uncle cannot no longer afford repayments.

 

Since April MBNA have ignored our letters and sent random arrears letters threatening action but to date have not taken any.

 

My uncle has received a letter today from MBNA - thanking him for his request under the section 78 of the CC Act 1974. The have enclosed the following:-

 

1} A copy of his executed agreement

2} Copy of up to date terms and conditions

3} Copy of most recent statement.

 

I am attaching uploads of the CCA but it is from 1997 so not sure whether the information on it is/was enforceable - it looks like an application form to me - but am no expert lol so would appreciate some advice on how to respond / wether its enforceable etc

 

As you will see from the uploads the page with the signature on looks like an application form. Seperate to this are four pages of an agreement which on the front page has my uncles name and address printed on.

 

Apart from my uncles name and address these pages actually look like T&Cs - there is no account number, signature or witness signatures, dates etc on the form nor is there any reference to any account number. The document does however state what the annual APR is

 

Any advice greatly appreciated - i do not have access to a scanner at the moment so apologies for quality of uploads but these are copies of copies, which arent great to start off with

 

Thanks x