Invalid Default Notices

[diddydicky]

well i just had a letter from DG/M & S- obviously rattled their cage

 

they are thinking about either

 

discontinuing (which i invited them to dowithout costs ) and then re issuing another DN TN and claim

 

or

discontinuing the part of the claim for non arrears (they are worried about the Dn's - both of them!!) suing for the arrears then coming back for another go at the sums not yet due.

 

talk about stop digging when you are in a hole!!

[vint1954]

Thanks Vint,

 

March 08 (a couple of weeks before they up'd the limit )

 

Car finance £25,155 after deposit paid (was £24,500 but added negative equity from px into agreement)

 

Worth checking that out. Don't think that they can add a ghost in, to make it unregulated. Could be an unfair relationship.

 

First DN gave me 2 days to remedy, after complaining they issued another giving 7 days from date of letter.

 

If it is unregulated, then the terms of the contract that were signed should cover defaults and terminations. I would check credit situation out though. They may have pulled a fast one and it should be a regulated agreement. Might be worth a word with your trading standards.

 

Also, have a read here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178390-credit-agreements-over-25k-2.html

[vint1954]

hiya all

 

i thought id seen it before on this thread that the 7 days to remedy default had been changed to 14 days i thought was amended a couple of years ago?

 

anyone if has the info and dates only quickly to hand would appreciate it, if not pls dont worry i will continue searching

 

wishing you all a fun eve angel x

That was for regulated agreements under CCA 1974.

[angel_1]

hiya vint and nks

 

so the regulated agreement means credit cards, loans mainly?

 

so if you had a default for say a bank account or phone agreement then its still 7?

 

sorry easily confused me,,

 

cheers angel x

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello angel 1!

 

I think this may help:

 

The applicable Date was 19/12/2006.

 

Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

 

Details of breach of agreement and action required to remedy, or pay compensation for, the breach

 

3

 

A specification of:--

 

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

 

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

 

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

 

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

Then look further down to the notes towards the bottom...

 

NOTES

 

Amendment

 

Para 3: in sub-paras ©, (d) words "not less than fourteen days" in square brackets substituted by SI 2006/3094, regs 2, 3.

 

Date in force: 19 December 2006: see SI 2006/3094, reg 1.

This applies to all Regulated Agreements, so before that date it was 7 clear days, after that date, it became 14 clear days...after Service in each case!

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited March 2, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
Old Links are broken! :(

[banker_rhymes_with]

Sadly, my links for the above are out of date, so I can't link to the Statute, but you should be able to find that on CAG or via Google.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[vint1954]

Thanks Vint,

 

March 08 (a couple of weeks before they up'd the limit )

 

Car finance £25,155 after deposit paid (was £24,500 but added negative equity from px into agreement)

 

First DN gave me 2 days to remedy, after complaining they issued another giving 7 days from date of letter.

Beachcomber,

 

Was there any PPI involved. If so it should have been basically 2 agreements ( multiple s18 CCA 1974). This would have brought the level below 25K. I still think that there may be some milage in the PX additions to the agreement.

[vint1954]

Sadly, my links for the above are out of date, so I can't link to the Statute, but you should be able to find that on CAG or via Google.

 

Cheers,

BRW

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/Consumer%20Credit%20(Enforcement,%20Default%20and%20Termination%20Notices)%20Regulations%201983.pdf

[angel_1]

thanks also to BRW

 

im going to print that off now, so no longer confused!

 

cheers as always guys i appreciate you taking me under your wings;)

 

and putting up with my dotty questions and concerns

 

sending you all a virtual beer cheers angel x:-D

[banker_rhymes_with]

sending you all a virtual beer

 

Did someone mention BEER!

 

I'm in!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Thanks Vint!

 

http://www.johnpughschambers.co.uk/C...ons%201983.pdf

 

Cheers,

BRW

[lookinforinfo]

Yes the example is good for most of the DN except for when and where

certain words should be underlined. It would appear that up till recently, the

creditors issuing DNs used it as their example.

[vint1954]

Thanks Vint!

 

 

 

Cheers,

BRW

No problem BRW.

 

Did someone mention London Pride.

[enslaved]

Hi

I have spent the last 2 days reading through this great thread.

 

I wonder if anyone could check out my DN and 'termination letter'?

 

It gets very complicated after that, but I shall wait to see what the verdict is before burdening you all.

 

Just click on image, default notice is bottom picture.

 

In my SARS request I got their notes.

On the 16 May 2006 entry; (code?)sent 23/05 no further entries until 23 June 2006.

 

Many Thanks

[Bigdebtor]

They only gave you 7 days - so I believe it's a classic dodgy TN and on them issuing (and you accepting) the subsequent TN - which was unlawful rescission - you only owe the arrears - less any unfair charges imposed and any compensation you may think you are due.

[postggj]

i think you will find seven days is acceptable as its before the regs changed

[cab1ne]

They only gave you 7 days - so I believe it's a classic dodgy TN and on them issuing (and you accepting) the subsequent TN - which was unlawful rescission - you only owe the arrears - less any unfair charges imposed and any compensation you may think you are due.

 

The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 88(1) and 182(2) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Citation, commencement and interpretation

1. This Order may be cited as the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2006 and shall come into force on 19th December 2006.

 

Amendment of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

2. The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 shall be amended as follows.

 

3. In Schedule 2 in paragraphs 3©, 3(d) and 6 for the words "not less than seven days" substitute "not less than fourteen days".

 

 

Ian McCartney

Minister of State for Trade, Investment and Foreign Affairs Department of Trade and Industry

 

18th November 2006

 

EXPLANATORY NOTE

These Regulations amend the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983. They provide that default notices served under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 shall specify—

(a) that where action is required to be taken by the debtor or hirer to remedy the breach or pay compensation, this action shall be taken within not more than 14 days after the service of the notice; and

 

(b) where no such action is required to be taken, the date on or after which the creditor or owner intends to take action, must not be less than 14 days from the date of the notice.

 

 

cab

[diddydicky]

they didnt give you 7 days. posted on 16 may would be deemed served on 18 may

 

7 days is 25 may

 

not sure what the prescribed text was then but it looks to me like half of it is missing!! - if it is the same as it is now supposed to be!!!

Edited March 3, 2010 by diddydicky

[cab1ne]

even tho it is seven days should it still not be 7 clear days after posting?

 

cab

[cab1ne]

they didnt give you 7 days. posted on 16 may would be deemed served on 18 may

 

7 days is 25 may

 

not sure what the prescribed text was then but it looks to me like half of it is missing!!

 

:grin:

 

cab

[diddydicky]

:grin:

 

cab

 

didn't i tell you my second name was head?

[cab1ne]

didn't i tell you my second name was head?

 

[enslaved]

Hi, Thanks

I thought it was at least two days short.

 

Now, a little of the complicated bit.

 

I never recieved the 2nd letter as I had moved house, (repossed, finally sold in May 2007). Chasing us for the shortfall, (secured loan).

 

This has been in and out of court since Nov 08 and need to file a list of documents by 4pm tomorrow.

 

I had never seen the 'termination letter' until I recieved a copy of the Claimants court bundle 3 days before the trial 'Nov 09'. And never realised the significance of the DN before I started reading this and related threads.

 

My problem is that my defence includes; Multiple Agreements Sec 18, 'Secret Commissions' and PPI mis-selling, and nowhere have I ever mentioned 'faulty DN'.

 

Is it too late now? and what are the consequences of accepting the 'unlawful termination'?

 

Many thanks

[diddydicky]

i dont think the termination letter is relevant

 

the issue of proceedings is evidence enough of termination

 

in any event you are entitled to take the creditor at their "word" - what they said would happen in the DN if you did not remedy the default

 

moving house - would be your responsibilty to keep people informed of your whereabouts

 

assuming you have made no payments to then since the DN you will have to rely on your "behaviour" (ie not making any payments) as evidence of your acceptance of their unlawful rescsission

 

(although if you were already "not making payments" prior to the DN the judge may rule that he could not see a distinction in your behaviour before and after the DN to convince him that your " reason for not paying" had moved from one thing to another- hopefully he wont pick up on that one!!

[enslaved]

Thanks DD

 

I stopped paying as soon as they would not honour the PPI.

 

I failed to inform them of change of address.

 

Mitigating circumstances; Mortage provider told my wife and I " You have enough equity to clear this secured debt".

 

Many Thanks