Chandlers Bailiffs charges?

[Darren09]

Since January 09 I have been paying Chandlers £50 a month to settle what was originally a council tax bill of £113.00...

 

Last month i was 10 days late in paying them but as a good will gesture paid a little extra to get the account down to £30.00

 

Today i come home from work.... with no prior warning it turns out one of their bailiffs had visited my home.... and for this priveledge i have been charged an extra £65 i now owe £95 by tomorrow morning or there coming to remove my goods...... Surely £65 is an unjustified amount to pay considering in total i have now paid over £200 in charges and the prospect of further charges when they come at 6am tomorrow...

 

Is there any process anyone knows of that:

a)Delay the removal of goods tomorrow?

b)I can claim what i deem to be unfair charges back?

 

I am only working part time 15hrs a week and am recieving council tax benefit also.... does any of this also affect circumstances ?

[hallowitch]

a bailiff can only charge for 2 visits £24.50 for first visit £18 for second visit so in total you should only pay the bailiff £155.50

if the bailiff hasn't done a walking possession

the clever people will be along soon to explain it better but no walking possession then thats all he can charge you

[Guest Happy Contrails]

The trust you have placed in your bailiff is admirable. You have genuinely been paying off the debt in good faith while the bailiff has been cheating you of money hand over fist and embezzling it on the pretence of charging you fees. Its a very serious offence.

 

The legal position is the bailiff has committed a criminal offence under Section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and you have a right to make a complaint to police and ask they investigate the crime. It is called Fraud by abuse of position.

 

The law providing bailiffs fees for unpaid council tax is Regulation 14(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and prescribes a charge of £24.50 for making a visit. As you were already paying in good faith to clear your debt there is no need for a 2nd visit and thus no further visit fee. You dont appear to have signed anything with the bailiff and there are no levy fees so the maximum fee payable to the bailiff is £24.50.

 

You can also make an official complaint against the bailiff addressed to the court that issued his certificate. Phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate, then download the complaint form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs documents showing the his fees and, if possible amounts you have paid.

 

If a bailiff turns up, dont open the door, there is no law requiring to you do business with a bailiff and do not tell him your name. Ask him to quietly leave the property. Call police on 999 if the bailiff causes a public disturbance, becomes a nuisance or threatens to commit burglary and remember, your door remains locked shut until the bailiff is safely away from your property.

 

If you are classed a vulnerable person then enforcement cannot take place. More: Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

[Darren09]

Just to clarify what i have already paid in fees....

 

Levy Fee: £50.50

Walking poss fee: £24.00

Attendance / Removal costs : £49.00

Debit card charges £4.00

Unjustified callout charge £65.00

 

Nothing has been removed as of yet but the grand total of all that comes to almost £200 which im almost sure some if not most of can be reclaimed in some way...?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Only the £24.50 is lawful, everything else is not allowed. Its the law. Regulation 14(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

Keep that document, its a very crucial piece of evidence, make lots of copies.

 

The fee reclaim process is done by recovering it from the council who instructed the bailiff. They are liable for its bailiffs. A Form 4 described above also does the trick but the county court creates lots more noise between the council and its bailiffs. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

 

Going by your figures, the bailiff owes you money so you should get the ball rolling on all fronts as quickly as possible.

[Seminole]

Only the £24.50 is lawful, everything else is not allowed. Its the law. Regulation 14(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

Keep that document, its a very crucial piece of evidence, make lots of copies.

 

The fee reclaim process is done by recovering it from the council who instructed the bailiff. They are liable for its bailiffs. A Form 4 described above also does the trick but the county court creates lots more noise between the council and its bailiffs. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

 

Going by your figures, the bailiff owes you money so you should get the ball rolling on all fronts as quickly as possible.

 

The more I read on here about bailiffs defrauding people whilst acting on behalf of local authorities, the more concerned I get. If there is an agency relationship between the bailiff and the council then surely the council must have a legal responsibility for the conduct of the bailiff?

 

If that's right then I'm toying with the idea of using the Freedom of Information Act to get councils to disclose details of the charges levied by the bailiffs acting on their behalf and details of the refunds made. I think there is enough evidence here of scandalous behavior here to make such a piece of work worthwhile and the results might be enough to get some certificated bailiffs into a lot of trouble.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

There is no mediation agency between council tax bailiffs and debtors as such, the bailiff is an agent of the council and the Local Government Ombudsman can mediate between the authority and an aggrieved party.

 

A Section 10 of the FOI Act request won't reveal actual fees and charges have been made by bailiffs because the money is retained by the bailiff contractor and the council will just quote from the fixed bailiffs fees from the legislation. Only the original council tax debt reaches the authority. The only useful information an FOI can accomplish is the number of liability orders granted and how many cases of unpaid council tax debts were recovered using bailiffs.

 

I don't know a way of getting lists of names and addresses of debtors who have received a council tax or a parking ticket bailiff, it would worth a fortune to a procedural fee recovery business or law firm looking to drum up business in recovering fraudulent bailiffs fees paid in the last six years.

[Seminole]

OK I can see your point regarding FOI. I suppose one could also get details from them of the complaints received about bailiff activity and the procedures they have in place (if any) to ensure that bailiffs are acting in compliance with the law for fees etc.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

The Ministry of Justice is the compliance authority for certificated bailiffs and this is where a complaint is addressed to. Entities such as ACEA and others are just private companies masquerading as industry regulators. They are trade associations representing the interests of bailiffs and their firms and have no authority or statutory power.

 

I suppose you could do a Section 10 of the FOI addressed to the Ministry of Justice and ask for the number of Form 4 complaints received how many of those complaints were upheld. You could be a royal pain in the proverbial and ask for a complete list of the nature of the complaints received. e.g. fee irregularities, violence, invalid levy, breaking & entering without a warrant, embezzlement of goods/money etc. Would be interesting to see the outcome but I anticipate a reason would be found not to disclose, e.g. national security or the information could get into the hands of terrorists etc.

[Seminole]

The Ministry of Justice is the compliance authority for certificated bailiffs and this is where a complaint is addressed to. Entities such as ACEA and others are just private companies masquerading as industry regulators. They are trade associations representing the interests of bailiffs and their firms and have no authority or statutory power.

 

I suppose you could do a Section 10 of the FOI addressed to the Ministry of Justice and ask for the number of Form 4 complaints received how many of those complaints were upheld. You could be a royal pain in the proverbial and ask for a complete list of the nature of the complaints received. e.g. fee irregularities, violence, invalid levy, breaking & entering without a warrant, embezzlement of goods/money etc. Would be interesting to see the outcome but I anticipate a reason would be found not to disclose, e.g. national security or the information could get into the hands of terrorists etc.

 

OK that sounds like fun. I think it would be reasonable to request a schedule setting out the complaints made by court and by type (I'll use approximately the list of issues you've given) and the numbers that were upheld. I wonder if it would be possible to ask for a further breakdown by bailiff as I imagine that the court record is a public document.

 

Of course the main issue with this approach is that very few people probably know the rules well enough to be able to make a complaint to the court.

[chris600uk]

How's Darren getting on?

[hallowitch]

you could add V.A.T to your list because they are still adding that

[The Sgt]

Hello all,

My run in with chandlers has been a long and drawn out process and for the sake of not revealing any of their names chandlers bailiffs who attended shall be known as "agent x".

I and my partner owed £121.00 on council tax, but we were not aware as we had moved via a mutual exchange to another council. Under the terms of a mutual exchange it stated that our previous council knew of our whereabouts.

It was taken to court without our knowledge and the first we knew 3 addresses down the line Agent X was banging on my door. (DO NOT LET AGENT X IN YOUR HOME AND MAKE SURE ALL WINDOWS AND DOORS ARE LOCKED, TALK THROUGH THE LETTER BOX) after sending Agent X packing, we contacted the council with whom we apparently owed the debt, as we were on benefits at the time we were able to make a £10 weekly postal order to Chandlers whom begrudgingly accepted our offer. For 8 weeks they received our payment without a hitch until apparently we defaulted due to it being late (in other words the postman took too long) therefore meaning our arrangement was null and void. After this we cleared one account entirely (KEEP YOUR RECIEPTS AND SEND EVERYTHING RECORDED) but chandlers come banging again chasing the singular debt of my partner. after doing some reading up and getting to know my rights, you must contact the council who originated the debt and you must enquire if you can be put into contact with an in house bailiff (these bailiffs are here to help and can withdraw chandlers authority if you can prove you are innocent and willing to make a decent offer to clear the debt) you be able to claim back any wrong doings after getting initially square, always remember it’s better to pay and recover than trying to not pay whilst arguing. Anyway the in house bailiff was able to help me by contacting chandlers after hearing my offer and calling me back imdiatly stating that he would accept my offer on the grounds of previous payment confidence. He even told me and me quote "DO NOT LET THEM IN TALK. THROUGH THE LETTERBOX".

 

Outcome - I fought the bailiff and I won, I fought the bailiff and I won HA

 

let me know if this helps any of you.

[terrypc]

Just to add in here, that I have been sent a letter by Chandlers stating that debit card payments incur a £1 fee for EACH payment you make. My instalments were £3.40 weekly, so thats a hike of nearly 25% fees ON TOP OF the court order.

 

The only free way of paying is by cheque, but then there's postage. You can send cash in the post by recorded delivery or by bankers draft, but these incur costs.

 

So I sent them this letter: (use it if you like)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing to you to complain about the charges levied by your firm in accepting payment of my outstanding balance by instalments.

 

My Council tax ref no. is: xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Chandlers Ref No: xxxxxxxx

 

Amount Oustanding: £xxx Instalment Agreement: £xpw

 

I have telephoned your office today to explain that I cannot afford to pay a £1 for each payment I make by debit card. I am unable to get a cheque book from my bank, nor go to my branch (incurring a £4 bus fare) in order to get a weekly bankers draft.

 

Instead as with other creditors, I suggested paying by BACS or electronic transfer which requires minimal handling costs and would be a normal part of your monitoring process of overseeing account payments.

 

I suggested this on the telephone to your staff but was told that this method of payment is not acceptable.

 

I have taken advice and have been told that Regulation 14(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 states that there is a legal levy of charges laid down by Parliament and that the £1 charge per payment of monies owing is not legal and is in fact a criminal law issue with regards to council tax debts.

 

I request a response from yourselves on this matter stating how this £1 charge falls within the Act stated above and how you are interpreting this Act to allow your actions to be legal.

 

I am also seeking further action to allow myself and on behalf of those that this affects, to be able to pay what we owe without incurring further costs and debt to ourselves. This is especially pertinent where others (such as myself) are on means tested benefits at the minimum the LAW WILL ALLOW us to live on.

There are several avenues to pursue in attaining this outcome as I'm sure you are aware.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours

 

Terry

 

c.c. xxxxxxxx Council, Council Tax Dept.

 

 

 

RESULT: Within 15 minutes (record time!), I got an email stating that they have handed my case back to my local council tax office. Hotter than hotcakes?