Offer of employment withdrawn

[mree]

Hi everyone, this is the first time I've posted in this section, hope someone can help!

 

A friend of mine applied for a job at out local hospital as a flexi HCA in August 08. She went through the selection process and was offered a job in October 08, subject to references and enhanced CRB clearance. My friend is 17, and when she was 15 she accepted a caution for shoplifting - a mascara from a local chemist. She understands completely it was wrong, got the fright of her life and has never done anything else wrong, before or since. On advice from family members (wrong!), she didn't declare this on her application.

 

A couple of weeks later, she spoke to me and I told her that this would show up on the CRB, so she called the hospital and spoke to the matron, who thanked her for 'coming clean', and assured her this wouldn't prevent her employment.

 

She called the hospital on many occasions following this, asking for a start date. She was eventually given a date of 9th March to start her induction training, and gave notice on her existing job. She called again a couple of weeks before starting as she hadn't received anything in writing. She was then told by some jobsworth in HR that the caution on her CRB was causing problems, and her employment would now have to be cleared by someone higher up. She's been fobbed off every time she's called the hospital, and been told to go away when she went to HR in person.

 

Anyway, she got a letter today saying the offer of employment has been withdrawn - no reason given. She's got no job now, and is extremely upset at the way she's been treated, especially by HR. She's a lovely girl who's keen on a career in healthcare when she's finished college, and I would trust her with my life. What can she do? I'm so angry on her behalf, I work at the hospital too and know how inept and generally unhelpful HR can be. I encouraged her to apply as I know she'd love, and be great at, this job, so I feel somewhat responsible for the situation she now finds herself in!

 

Thank you in advance for your help, and I apologise for the long post!

[BankFodder]

There isn't much she can do. Of course the hospital are within their rights but they have acted very badly in the way they have handled it.

 

If she wants to get technical about it, then it could be argued that she had been given the job and that she has been dismissed. Of course she has not been employed long enough to have any employment rights and the best she culd do would be to claim one week's pay in lieu of notice.

 

She should take the lesson not to act without getting things in writing in future - although that may not have made any difference.

I'm afraid that HR professionals are not normally very good and this kind of cack-handed treatment of a young individual is probably about the standard you can expect.

 

The only thng I can suggest is a very polite letter explaining what has happened and how she has now lost her job as a result of it.

I thik that it should be sent to the HR dept and also to the matron - but also this is the kind of injustice which a local MP might help out on. Make an appointment and go and see him/her.

[jackieandwayne]

Bankfodder, regarding the enhanced CRB's, is it right that things you did as a child are recorded? This has always confused me. When they were first introduced, I worked for a local authority, as did my partner. He had been ill and had a little job as a van driver for them. All of a sudden everyone had to have this done and his came back with an offence of forging a tax disc on a moped when he was 16! And would you believe it, at the grand old age of 42 he nearly lost his job over it as he hadn;t declared it! He'd forgotten about it! However, the year before that when he was only 15 he and his brother were cautioned for scrumping apples from an orchard - this didn;t show up! I thought there was such a thing as a juvenile record, that would be disregarded for these purposes, but clearly I thought wrong! So, how unfair would that have been? To lose a job you have had for a number of years, over something stupid you did as a child! Where would we all be?!

[Johnny Holmes]

Enhanced crb's depend on what your police force (or forces, depending on where you have lived in your life) policy is on retaining older records of individuals as the crb goes to a police search.

 

Some destroy them after a certain amount of years whilst others keep them for life.

 

I had one just last month and a conviction for no car tax was not on there and this happened 20 year ago.

 

My mates drink drive conviction from 1992 was not on his either which I am very surprised about as I would have thought it would be on for life.

[mree]

Thanks for your help - I guess what makes it worse is that I know for a fact that there are many people working there with 'worse' crimes on their CRB, it just seems this one particular person in HR couldn't be bothered to go throught the whole 'explain yourself' rigmarole, and has then probably realised she's left it too late and withdrawn the offer. I dealt with the same woman when I started the same role a year ago - I still have NOTHING in writing regarding my employment, bar payslips. I once phoned this woman twice a day for 3 weeks, sent 16 emails and wrote twice; not once did she answer the phone, return a message or respond to emails or letters. I still have no contract, not even a written offer of employment! When I spoke to the matron, she said this woman is well known for doing b*gger all, and I would probably be a qualified nurse (1 year's time!) before I get my HCA contract.

 

I'm going to help my friend compose a strongly-worded letter of complaint about the handling of this, and appealing against the withdrawal of the job offer. We'll send copies to the head of HR, the matron of that particular section and the director of nursing/chief matron. At the very least, this bone idle woman in HR may get a kick up the *rse!

[Ell-enn]

Hi Mree, I'm shocked to hear of your friend's treatment. As a chartered HR professional myself I'm embarrassed that people generally see HR in such a bad light and I would hope that situations like yours are in the minority rather that the norm. Of course, there are bad examples in all professions if we think about it.

 

Your friend should most definitely make a complaint to the hospital administrator (or whatever they call the person with overall responsibility these days!). Perhaps a subject access request to determine exactly what information they hold on her wouldn't go amiss either.

 

Ell-enn

[blazer666_uk]

Hi

 

Its pointless writing the letter, she has had a conviction for theft (shoplifting) and its a simple as that, she failed to disclose this information at the application, failure to disclose information counts(in companies opinions) as being dishonest. Remember they are taking a gamble in employing you, so they have to insure themselves as much as possible. If she had informed them of the conviction in the first place then she probably would of got the job. A similar thing happened in my company when a employee failed to disclose an arrest he had years ago for public disorder, yet another colleague who was convicted of drink driving years ago and he informed the company of this but he still got the job.

 

its all about openness, tell them everything, a new employee disclosed a juvenile conviction (driving without licence and underage) he was convicted but this never came up on the CRB, the company informed him of this matter and were not bothered but they thanked him for his HONESTY, that's the clue!.

 

They[companies] do not have the time to pay attention to individuals explanations why this or because of that stories, so its a hard lesson to learn im afraid, Tell them in the first place. I dont want to sound negative but I am honest and frank.

 

 

 

Thanks for your help - I guess what makes it worse is that I know for a fact that there are many people working there with 'worse' crimes on their CRB, it just seems this one particular person in HR couldn't be bothered to go throught the whole 'explain yourself' rigmarole, and has then probably realised she's left it too late and withdrawn the offer. I dealt with the same woman when I started the same role a year ago - I still have NOTHING in writing regarding my employment, bar payslips. I once phoned this woman twice a day for 3 weeks, sent 16 emails and wrote twice; not once did she answer the phone, return a message or respond to emails or letters. I still have no contract, not even a written offer of employment! When I spoke to the matron, she said this woman is well known for doing b*gger all, and I would probably be a qualified nurse (1 year's time!) before I get my HCA contract.

 

I'm going to help my friend compose a strongly-worded letter of complaint about the handling of this, and appealing against the withdrawal of the job offer. We'll send copies to the head of HR, the matron of that particular section and the director of nursing/chief matron. At the very least, this bone idle woman in HR may get a kick up the *rse!

[Ell-enn]

The complaint should be about the lack of communication and the "fobbing off" - that is inexcusable. Honesty is the employer's responsibility also.

[mree]

Hi

 

Its pointless writing the letter, she has had a conviction for theft (shoplifting) and its a simple as that, she failed to disclose this information at the application, failure to disclose information counts(in companies opinions) as being dishonest. Remember they are taking a gamble in employing you, so they have to insure themselves as much as possible. If she had informed them of the conviction in the first place then she probably would of got the job. A similar thing happened in my company when a employee failed to disclose an arrest he had years ago for public disorder, yet another colleague who was convicted of drink driving years ago and he informed the company of this but he still got the job.

 

its all about openness, tell them everything, a new employee disclosed a juvenile conviction (driving without licence and underage) he was convicted but this never came up on the CRB, the company informed him of this matter and were not bothered but they thanked him for his HONESTY, that's the clue!.

 

They[companies] do not have the time to pay attention to individuals explanations why this or because of that stories, so its a hard lesson to learn im afraid, Tell them in the first place. I dont want to sound negative but I am honest and frank.

 

If you re-read my original post, you'll see that she disclosed the caution before being given a start date, quitting her existing job, etc. It was a genuine mistake based on misguided advice, not any kind of attempt at dishonesty. Thank you for your comments, but no new information there unfortunately, we already knew all of that!

[blazer666_uk]

If you re-read my original post, you'll see that she disclosed the caution before being given a start date, quitting her existing job, etc. It was a genuine mistake based on misguided advice, not any kind of attempt at dishonesty. Thank you for your comments, but no new information there unfortunately, we already knew all of that!

 

 

Doesnt matter you had already sent off the application form, dont forget companies dont care about your case, that was the whole point of my post. Cold yes hartless yes, but thats the way of the world.

[patdavies]

Bankfodder, regarding the enhanced CRB's, is it right that things you did as a child are recorded?

 

Yes. However, guidance to employers makes it clear that the age of the offence, especially offences by minors, should be considered when making decisions as to whether to employ or not.

 

If you think about it for a moment, if offences as a minor were to be ignored by the CRB disclosure, then someone convicted of a serious offence a few days prior to their 18th birthday would have no record of it on their CRB disclosure.

[patdavies]

If you re-read my original post, you'll see that she disclosed the caution before being given a start date, quitting her existing job, etc. It was a genuine mistake based on misguided advice, not any kind of attempt at dishonesty. Thank you for your comments, but no new information there unfortunately, we already knew all of that!

 

As blazer666 says, the fact that she came clean before the start date is irrelevant. She would have signed her application form to state no convictions - that is why she has had the offer withdrawn in my view.

[patdavies]

Some destroy them after a certain amount of years whilst others keep them for life.

 

Some destroyed them, other did not prior to PNC and CRB. All recordable offences are now held on the PNC, only local intelligence (which may be used for an enhanced CRB) is held by the local force.

 

My mates drink drive conviction from 1992 was not on his either which I am very surprised about as I would have thought it would be on for life.

 

That is surprising.

[monkeychicken]

Some destroyed them, other did not prior to PNC and CRB. All recordable offences are now held on the PNC, only local intelligence (which may be used for an enhanced CRB) is held by the local force.

 

 

 

That is surprising.

 

Not really

When the CRB system was set up, data had to be transferred to it and many records were missed and others typed in incorrectly. Remember the company running the CRB system was ( probably still is) C®apita.

[kelbag]

CRB is a division within the Home Office.

 

The CRB system is actually run by bona fide civl servants not Capita as far as I'm aware and never has been as I used to work for the company that set up the software they run it on. Not sure which is worse actually.

[skonk]

My mum works for the CRB and she said that when you phone up, you are instantly put through to Capita, who then try and sort out whatever it is you are calling about. My mum said it's really bad, as these people don't really know what they are talking about, and giving people the wrong information out.

 

As kelbag syas, the CRB is runb by civil servants, but Capita has something to do with them, but can't remember what me mum said, as alcohol had taken effect! One thing she did tell me though, that when people are saying that CRB are taking a long time to sort their check, a lot of the time it's down to people not filling the forms in correctly.

 

For example, she says dealing with foreigners can be a bit long winded. A lot of foreign women don't put down their maiden name, and this can cause delays. Also, the name Mohammed is a nightmare, as there are thousands of names that are virtually the same. My mum also said that, people sometimes don't leave spaces when writing their name. This may sound stupid, but she said, when the forms come in, they are digitally scanned, then when it comes to doing the checks, a name will come up, such as johnathonwilliamson. Common sense tells you it's Johnahon Williamson, but the forms have to be perfect, esle they go back into the loop for amending.

 

A lot of ladies don't put their old married name down on the form, for a number of reasons. Some like to forget about that part of their life, and leave it off. The CRB then have to contact them to ask why they left the name off, as there are discrepencies in the timeline of this person.

 

It's the simple things that cause the most delays, she says. She did say though, that if you ever phone, you can ask if they are working for Capita, and if they say yes, then ask to speak to someone directly from the CRB.

 

Finally, she told me that as of this month, the CRB are up to date with all their records, but the police are about three months behind. She was even offered the chance to go to London for three months as they are that backlogged with checks, the Police can't cope. So, if anyone is waiting for an enchanced CRB, chances are, it's down to the police.

[monkeychicken]

CRB is a division within the Home Office.

 

The CRB system is actually run by bona fide civl servants not Capita as far as I'm aware and never has been as I used to work for the company that set up the software they run it on. Not sure which is worse actually.

Below is an extract from CRB website - just search for Capita

 

{Capita Wins Competition for Criminal Records Bureau Programme

 

 

20 July 2000

 

The Criminal Records Bureau today announced that the Capita Group Plc (Capita) has been selected as preferred bidder to undertake the development of the Information Systems infrastructure and ten-year operation on behalf of the new Bureau. Capita will operate the complete process from receiving applications to issuing certificates.}

 

Also

 

{Who runs the CRB?

 

The Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) is run as an Executive Agency of the Home Office by Civil Servants, and delivers the service through a number of strategic partnerships with:

 

 

• The Police
   
  For the provision of information that is held on the Police National Computer and held locally by the forces
  
• Capita
   
  CRB’s private sector partner that operates an administration infrastructure and call centre}
  

The contract was renewed in 2004 but I do not know what happened since