PCN charge for £117- what next?

[the_freedom_trail]

Yes!

 

My girlfriend and I have been entangled in a dispute with SIP since August last year. A PCN was issued for an overstay at a private pay & display car park in Manchester. The guy was all too quick to dart out of the office and slap a ticket on our car even though we were standing a few yards away, albeit a few minutes past the ticket's expiry time. We also watched him take a number of photos of the car.

 

However, the registration on the ticket was incorrect by 1 digit - an "E" had been inputted instead of an "F".

 

Before we had discovered what we know now thanks to these forums, we were too honest with the parking company and sent them a letter indicating the ticket was incorrectly issued and we want nothing to do with them. The registered address of the vehicle was not used for correspondence.

 

They threatened and abused my girlfriend over the phone following subsequent contact and accused us of altering the ticket in our favour to display an incorrect registration (we didn't touch it).

 

They obtained our details and issued us with a "Notice to Owner" and, having consulted this and other websites, we decided to use a template letter to write to them in which we indicated the signage was inadequate, their use of threatening language and accusations of altering the ticket contravened the "Administration of Justice Act 1970" etc etc. Our reply incidentally began "I am the driver and registered keeper and confirm I was so at the time of the alleged infringement", the closest we have come to admitting anything to them!

 

However, we have just received a letter from them which (to paraphrase) says "tough, pay up" and continues to allege tampering with the ticket. By all indications, this is essentially a standard letter as the grammar is far better than that used in previous correspondence. It also mentions they will use CCTV footage if necessary to take us to court. That, and the photos they took on the day itself, is a little worrying!

 

So have we gone too far to start ignoring them now??!? I know we shouldn't have contacted them in the first place but we are honest people and had no idea they were [causing problems] us!! Following our contact with them are we likely to be the 0.01% who are taken to court?

 

We have until the 18th March to pay up then they say they will add £15 per notice thereafter that is sent.

 

I will keep my mouth shut next time I promise!! Any help is appreciated!

 

I am affraid my friend that you may be honest which is something to be very proud of but PPC's are the exact opposite. By playing with a straight bat all you will do is leave your guard down. Having dealt with these companies in the past I can advise you that you are taking them far far too seriously. Don't write to them, phone them just ignore them. You have nothing to worry about.

 

They will not take you to court, all they are trying to do is scare you in to paying up - the threats are empty so please do not worry.

 

TFT

[DJXFM]

TFT, Jogs, thanks for your replies.

 

We will gratefully take your advice and ignore everything we receive from them. Our concern was that they threaten to use CCTV footage as well as photographs of the car that they took on the day itself. However, if the bar that *owns* the car park keeps CCTV footage for more than six months, I'll be amazed.

 

How do these cowboys continue to fleece those who have not been fortunate enough to read the information on this site before paying up? Why doesn't this stuff make the local papers more often? If more people knew about their tricks it would put them out of business!

[DDWales]

 

They threatened and abused my girlfriend over the phone following subsequent contact and accused us of altering the ticket in our favour to display an incorrect registration (we didn't touch it).

 

They obtained our details and issued us with a "Notice to Owner" Interesting considering only the L.A can serve an official NTO- any chance you could post this to have a look at?

 

However, we have just received a letter from them which (to paraphrase) says "tough, pay up" and continues to allege tampering with the ticket. By all indications, this is essentially a standard letter as the grammar is far better than that used in previous correspondence. It also mentions they will use CCTV footage if necessary to take us to court. That, and the photos they took on the day itself, is a little worrying! Its standard template nonsense and the footage is irrelevent.

 

So have we gone too far to start ignoring them now??!? I know we shouldn't have contacted them in the first place but we are honest people and had no idea they were [causing problems] us!! Following our contact with them are we likely to be the 0.01% who are taken to court? As one of the posters has mentioned your honesty has been your downfall. These PPC's are not interested. You will always get the standard response. Dont worry regarding court

 

We have until the 18th March to pay up then they say they will add £15 per notice thereafter that is sent. They may send you letters with fancy numbers on them but dont be intimidated by them

 

I will keep my mouth shut next time I promise!! Any help is appreciated!

Simply follow the advice given and youll be ok

[DJXFM]

Thanks again everyone.

 

I'll try to post up all our communications to/from SIP tomorrow and I'd be interested to hear what you think!

[DDWales]

How do these cowboys continue to fleece those who have not been fortunate enough to read the information on this site before paying up? Why doesn't this stuff make the local papers more often? If more people knew about their tricks it would put them out of business!

 

Unfortunately thats how they make thier money-through the uneducated. It can be very intimidating when you recieve letters threatening all sorts if you dont pay up.

These issues do hit the media from time to time and are reported to the BPA and TS by motorists. I believe a few PPCs are being investigated as we speak.....

[the_freedom_trail]

TFT, Jogs, thanks for your replies.

 

We will gratefully take your advice and ignore everything we receive from them. Our concern was that they threaten to use CCTV footage as well as photographs of the car that they took on the day itself. However, if the bar that *owns* the car park keeps CCTV footage for more than six months, I'll be amazed.

 

How do these cowboys continue to fleece those who have not been fortunate enough to read the information on this site before paying up? Why doesn't this stuff make the local papers more often? If more people knew about their tricks it would put them out of business!

 

They manage to fleece people because they fake authenticity at every stage from the issuing of an invoice made to look like a local authority/police parking charge notice all the way through to the issuing of notice to owners. I think you would be quite amazed if you were to see inside one of these operations - even the debt collectors they use are often just different desks in the same office. They can have all the CCTV footage in the world, it still wont make it legal to issue a penalty under contract law which is exactly what they are trying to do. They simply wont bother with court because the odds are so firmly stacked against them - even if they did there are several legally sound defences you could use to defeat them.

 

Simply view it as a mail [problem] like the ones advertising dodgy time shares or telling you've won the Turkish lottery lol. If you have any further concerns always jump straight back on as we are all more than happy to help. Finally, you must stop communicating with them at all as they will just view as someone on the verge of coughing up.

 

All the best,

 

TFT

[DJXFM]

I have scanned the front page of the Notice to Owner I recieved from SIP.

 

[/url]

 

The more interesting stuff is on the back which didn't work but it says:

 

"Why should I respond to this notice?

 

If you fail to respond to this notice, legal proceedings may be issued against you in the county Courts/Sheriffs Court. This may result in:

 

1. You having to pay more in the end because of court costs

2. A court judgement/decree

3. Your possessions being seized"

 

If anyone has any other problems with them I would like to hear how they dealt with you. I think we owe them 5p for the overstay so I might deliver it in person. They use a PO Box but their address if you wish to do the same is:

 

SIP CAR PARKS LIMITED

PETER HOUSE

OXFORD ROAD

MANCHESTER

GREATER MANCHESTER

M1 5AN

Company No. 06752444

 

Cheers

Edited March 20, 2009 by DJXFM

[letshelp]

You should delete some more of the personal details so that the PPC cannot identify you.

Apart from that it is the usual unenforceable nonsense.

regards

[lamma]

looks fraudulent to me. and against The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 No. was the invoice issued to a vehicle on the public road ?

[DDWales]

I have scanned the front page of the Notice to Owner I recieved from SIP.

 

 

 

The more interesting stuff is on the back which didn't work but it says:

 

"Why should I respond to this notice?

 

If you fail to respond to this notice, legal proceedings may be issued against you in the county Courts/Sheriffs Court. This may result in:

 

1. You having to pay more in the end because of court costs

2. A court judgement/decree

3. Your possessions being seized"

 

Nonsense. If it should ever get to court (it wont)-the only way posessions would be seized if the judge ruled in thier favour (again extremely unlikely) then you didnt pay what was ruled and only then would the bailiffs be brought in-thats a very long way down the line.

The word 'may' is the optimum word here-its a favourite with all DCAs. It all adds up to the usual rubbish.

Cheers

[DJXFM]

The ticket was issued on private property. They even say on another letter regarding our appeal "The car park in question is on private land which is not controlled by Local Authorities".

 

That's us off the hook if you ask me!

 

Thanks all.

[DDWales]

The ticket was issued on private property. They even say on another letter regarding our appeal "The car park in question is on private land which is not controlled by Local Authorities".

 

That's us off the hook if you ask me!

 

Thanks all.

 

Indeed

[jack2uk]

Hi,

 

Thats the exact same Letter i was issued with a month ago from SIP, i have not responded and have no intention of doing so after all the good advice i receive from you guys on here, i'm expecting a 2nd letter soon, i will keep you informed.

[DJXFM]

Just received this letter from SIP - it's in red now, OOOOOOOOHHHH!!

 

 

What does being a member of the British Parking Association give to a private parking company?? Is it a government-run thing or simply a private set-up to monitor private set-ups?

 

Cheers.

[lamma]

they have a website. its a trade association fundamentally. having said that over 200 councils are members though why they spend our council tax on membership (not cheap) of a trade association is beyond me. they are public servants not tradesmen. see FAQs - PPCs - fighting back. The forces are aligned

[jack2uk]

Hey DJXFM,

I received the RED Letter from SIP car parks also dated 18 march, its now increased to £132 also payable in 14 days, have a guess what i'm gonna do... tuck it away in the back of the draws with the previous ones and no doubt the future ones.

[DJXFM]

I have received another red letter!

 

This time it says in big red letters:

 

"2nd reminder: Failure to respond to this letter may affect your credit rating and may lead to legal action".

 

Firstly I won't comment on their use of "2nd" to begin a paragraph nor will I mention too many uses of the word "may", but I will mention that they have never given me any credit so can't touch my credit rating!

 

They have charged me £15 for the honour of receiving their rubbish and now the "full charge amount" stands at £147 - it started at £25! (And even then I owed them nothing).

 

Keep 'em coming, S.I.P. The more letters I receive the more you shoot yourself in the legal (proverbial) foot.

[lamma]

"Failure to respond to this letter may affect your credit rating" what absolute claptrap. clear breach of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 No. report them to Trading Standards for it.

[DDWales]

I have received another red letter!

 

This time it says in big red letters:

 

"2nd reminder: Failure to respond to this letter may affect your credit rating and may lead to legal action".

 

Firstly I won't comment on their use of "2nd" to begin a paragraph nor will I mention too many uses of the word "may", but I will mention that they have never given me any credit so can't touch my credit rating!

 

They have charged me £15 for the honour of receiving their rubbish and now the "full charge amount" stands at £147 - it started at £25! (And even then I owed them nothing).

 

Keep 'em coming, S.I.P. The more letters I receive the more you shoot yourself in the legal (proverbial) foot.

 

Utter PPC nonsense as usual. As you state the word 'may' gets used quite alot doesnt it!

[JadaiH]

I have received another red letter!

 

This time it says in big red letters:

 

"2nd reminder: Failure to respond to this letter may affect your credit rating and may lead to legal action".

 

Firstly I won't comment on their use of "2nd" to begin a paragraph nor will I mention too many uses of the word "may", but I will mention that they have never given me any credit so can't touch my credit rating!

 

They have charged me £15 for the honour of receiving their rubbish and now the "full charge amount" stands at £147 - it started at £25! (And even then I owed them nothing).

 

Keep 'em coming, S.I.P. The more letters I receive the more you shoot yourself in the legal (proverbial) foot.

 

I received this reminder 2 months ago demanding £147 within 14 days and I ignored it as advised in here. I then received their final notice saying that they will now take legal action if the amount remains unpaid for 28 days. Now I have a court date on 14th May. What should I do?

[DDWales]

I received this reminder 2 months ago demanding £147 within 14 days and I ignored it as advised in here. I then received their final notice saying that they will now take legal action if the amount remains unpaid for 28 days. Now I have a court date on 14th May. What should I do?

 

Hi there. Just a little more info. Was this from a PPC or was this a council ticket? Can you post the docs up here minus your details please? Hopefully its just a PPC [problem]. Council should never be ignored

[lamma]

have you checked with the court ? if its PPC then you may have fallen for the dodgy wording. what di the letter say EXACTLY ? if they have issued real papers then get back here ASAP. you don't get a court date with Council PCNs - just an enforcement order via the TEC.

[DJXFM]

I'd be interested to hear more about this too!

 

If there's another letter on it's way I'll be due one soon as the most recent correspondence from these people was a month ago. Was this letter from SIP Parking?

[ddude]

I received this reminder 2 months ago demanding £147 within 14 days and I ignored it as advised in here. I then received their final notice saying that they will now take legal action if the amount remains unpaid for 28 days. Now I have a court date on 14th May. What should I do?

 

Hi, i have also received a similar letter from Northampton county court which i have to reply within next 5 days. I have also called and confirmed with the court. I dont know what to write back....

[ddude]

Hi, i have also received a similar letter from Northampton county court which i have to reply within next 5 days. I have also called and confirmed with the court. I dont know what to write back....

 

the letter from the court....

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2317/tradingstandards009.jpg