Brilliant isn't it! Thanks to you and all our friends here for the excellent and bullet-proof advice!!

Good news from POPLA today! "The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge. The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has determined that the appeal be allowed. The Assessor’s reasons are as set out. The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith. Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination It is the Appellant’s case that the parking charge notice was issued incorrectly. The Operator has not produced a copy of the parking charge notice, nor any evidence to show a breach of the conditions of parking occurred, nor any evidence that shows what the conditions of parking, in fact, were. Accordingly I have no option but to allow the appeal. Shehla Pirwany Assessor" So UKPC didn't even bother trying tor reply to my case. Great news. Another success for everyone on the forum. Thanks for your help!

Thanks for your feedback folks! Really appreciate it. I've altered the text to include the (former OFT) advice and will send via e-mail and post accordingly. The contributions from the site and others around the web have been very useful and I'll update as and when I hear anything. I'll post it tomorrow morning so if there is anything else that crops up overnight I'd be delighted to hear it.

Hi all, I'd appreciate any feedback relating to my POPLA appeal against UKPC: Dear Sir / Madam, On the 26th February 2015 I received PCN number xxxxxxxxx from UKPC whilst parked in a private residents car park that belongs to an apartment block in which I own an apartment. Following an unsuccessful appeal to UKPC, I am writing to you to appeal the PCN for the following reasons: 1.Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss The demand for a payment of £60 is punitive, unreasonable, exceeds an appropriate amount and has no relationship to any loss that would have been suffered to the Landowner. The reduced sum of £60 rises to £100 if not paid within 35 days of the date of their appeal rejection letter and therefore indicates that the initial sum is a blanket sum and not proportional to any actual costs incurred as a direct result of the alleged parking infringement. To date, UKPC have not provided me with a complete break-down of how this “charge” was calculated in the form of specific evidence relating to this car park and this alleged incident. In the BPA code of practice, paragraph 19.5 states: “If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer.” And paragraph 19.6 states: “If your parking charge is based upon a contractually agreed sum, that charge cannot be punitive or unreasonable.” I am aware of previous POPLA adjudications in which day to day running costs of the business (staff uniforms, signage, maintenance etc.) would have been incurred whether the alleged breach had occurred or not therefore these may not be included as a pre-estimate of loss. There is no machine for paying for parking on the site (it is a private, residential car park), and there was no loss or damage arising from the incident. The Office of Fair Trading has stated to the BPA that a “parking charge” is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists. And the BPA Code of Practice states that a charge for breach must wholly represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss flowing from the parking event. I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed. 2.No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers As a leaseholder of the land in question, I believe that UKPC have no propriety interest in the land nor the authority to form contracts with drivers on the land, nor pursue charges for breach in their own name. UKPC have not stated any assignment of rights from the Landowner in their rejection letter and have not provided any evidence that they are lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper. I demand that UKPC produce to POPLA the contemporaneous and unredacted contract between the landowner and UKPC. It has also been widely reported that some parking companies have provided “witness statements” instead of the relevant contract. There is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory on behalf of the landowner has ever seen the relevant contract or, indeed, is even an employee of the landowner. I contend, if such a witness statement is submitted instead of the landowner contract itself, that this should be disregarded as unreliable, not proving full BPA compliance and is not sufficient to prove UKPC have the necessary legal standing at this location to bring a claim in their own name nor to form any contractual relationship between UKPC and motorists. I clarify that this should be an actual copy of the contract between UKPC and the Landowner and not just a document that claims a contract/agreement exists. I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed. 3.Breach of BPA code of practice regarding grace periods. Section 13.2 of the BPA code of practice states: “You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.” The PCN issued to me states the “time first seen” as 14:23 on the 26/02/15 and the charge “issue time” as 14:23 on the 26/02/15. It is clear that no grace period was afforded to me as recommended in the BPA code of practice. Section 13.3 states: “You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.” I put it to UKPC to specify their exact grace period and how it relates to the charge issued to me. I strongly suggest that no such grace period was afforded to me and that UKPC has breached best practice set out by their regulatory authority. I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed. 4.PCN issued in contravention of allowable use of parking areas as defined in the lease. Section 2.12, Third Schedule, of the lease for the site states: “vehicles delivering or collecting goods may be parked temporarily on the Private Accessway or vacant Visitor Parking Spaces.” I have enclosed a copy of the relevant page of the lease. Since the lease allows loading in the area in which I was parked, I have supremacy of contract and UKPC has committed an act of trespass against me by issuing a parking charge notice on my vehicle. In their appeal rejection letter the operator states that communications with the Landowner have confirmed that the area in question does not form part of the “private accessway” as stated by the lease. I demand that UKPC produce evidence that such communication took place and ask under what legal standing has the change of use of the land been enacted. As a leaseholder I have not been made aware of any such changes to the lease. I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed. 5.Invalid reason for issue of the notice. The Parking Charge Notice states that specific breach that is alleged to have occurred is: “Not parked within the markings of the bay or space” The photographic evidence supplied by UKPC does not show the vehicle to have been parked inappropriately relating to a space or bay since it was parked in an area where no bays are marked. Therefore, the alleged infringement cannot have occurred. In District Enforcement Ltd v Gary Hudson of 17 November 2014 Deputy District Judge Evans dismissed District Enforcement Ltd’s claim on such a matter stating “…I can completely understand that where there are marked bays anyone parking across the lines and taking up two bays would be causing a problem. But for that to apply there must be a marked bay and all down that area there are no marked bays. There are no double yellow lines or hatched areas to indicate no parking. The claim is dismissed.” This concludes my appeal. I respectfully request that my appeal be upheld and the charge be dismissed if UKPC fail to address and provide the necessary evidence as requested in the points highlighted above. Thanks again for your help everyone! Generally, is it best to write to POPLA or submit via their online appeal form? I have to attach the relevant section of the lease and a copy of the PCN (unless they have one already of course...).

Haha! Thanks! I'll spend the evening looking how best to approach it given others' experiences and post something up tomorrow. Cheers!

UPDATE: Received two replies from UKPC with the same date. One of them rejects my appeal and the other one invites me to send a copy of my lease to their appeals department. The lease weighs a ton so I'm clearly not going to do that but fortunately the rejection letter includes a POPLA reference number. Allegedly, UKPC have contacted the land owners and ascertained that the area I parked in is not included as an area suitable for loading and unloading. There is no mention of the pre-estimate of loss, and their summation of the issue about parking outside the bay is that the signage clearly states that it isn't to be done (although the private accessway - which can be used for loading according to the lease - has no marked spaces on it!) Should I just ignore these people now and head straight for POPLA? Any help in constructing an appeal would be much appreciated. Not been through the process before having successfully ignored these invoices before. In order not to complicate things with POPLA, would it be best to leave out the "private accessway" issue altogether and go straight for a cast-iron defence? What if I lose at POPLA? Do I then just ignore them anyway? Lots of threats for court judgements etc but as far as I'm aware the law stands on their ability to chase me through the courts and go after a CCJ. Thanks for your help once again!

Many thanks Dublindel!

Hi, I wrote to UKPC at the beginning of this month appealing a PCN on a vehicle I hired stating I was the driver but then followed up with the usual cast iron defence! I haven't heard back from them yet and am wondering whether they are waiting to contact the rental company directly knowing they'll get the money off them despite my intervention at the earliest stage. Is it normal to wait this long for an appeal response? Any idea as to the course of action if my card is debited by the rental company for the cost of the PCN and admin charges? How would I go about claiming it back from UKPC? Thanks

UKPC should have received my appeal yesterday so here's a rundown of what I went for. Firstly I admitted being the driver thus taking the rental company out of the loop with all this. I hit them with: 1. Lease states "...vehicles delivering or collecting goods may be parked temporarily on the Private Accessway or vacant Visitor Parking Spaces." (Enclosed coopy of the relevant page) 2. The £60 (or £100) cannot constitute a GPEOL and asked for evidence that it is. 3. Quoted District Enforcement Ltd v Gary Husdon from a different thread on CAG in which the judge stated "I can completely understand that where there are marked bays anyone parking across the lines and taking up two bays would be causing a problem. But for that to apply there must be a marked bay and all down that area there are no marked bays. There are no double yellow lines or hatched areas to indicate no parking. The claim is dismissed." Was also going to ask for a copy of the contract with the landowner (I am pretty sure one does not exist!) but wanted to keep the letter to one side of A4 so as to not waste a penny more than I have to on these fools! Maybe I'll leave that one for POPLA. Thanks again everyone I'll let you know how it develops.

Just as a heads up, is the current protocol still to ignore these clowns? Clearly the charge is punitive (£60 or £100 if after blah number of days) so I guess it's unlikely they'll chase me if they choose to deny my appeal. I'll be handing over my name and address to these people!

Ok thanks for that. I assume by giving them my details they'll have no need to pursue the rental company. It's been a while since I've had to appeal a parking charge so I'll spot up on the latest advice from the forum and keep my fingers crossed. POPLA route still waiting to be tested by me! Regards.

Sorry, windscreen ticket, yes. During the 2 seconds I wasn't in attendance at the vehicle!

Would it be best to write to UKPC with an appeal admitting I was the driver? I'm concerned that they will unilaterally decide to chase the rental company nonetheless, incurring further charges for me.

Hi all, Thanks to the contributions from this forum I am successful PPC ignorer when I've been incorrectly charged by these people. However today there was a twist! I own a flat in a leasehold development patrolled by UKPC. There are numbered spaces and the lease allows access to the paved area in front of the main door for the purposes of loading and unloading. I hired a van today to move a load of stuff out, and whilst parked in the "loading area" I received a comedy parking charge from UKPC. The area is not marked as a space but is regularly used by residents when stuff needs moving, in accordance with the lease. I very much doubt that these clowns know anything about the lease... Normally, of course, I'd ignore this charge and move on, however, the vehicle I was in was hired and I am concerned about the response from the rental company. I asked in the office when I returned the vehicle about the procedure for this kind of event and the chap implied there would be various admin charges from the company if they have to forward the nonsense from the PPC to me. I haven't yet found out the cost of these admin charges, but if they are less than the cost of the fine, I'll just pay the rental company and let the fine go away as usual. However, I suspect it'll cost me more. Should I pay up and then seek to reclaim the money including charges for my time and expenses? I need to get the rental company out of the picture ASAP as far as I can see. Thanks for your ideas!

UPDATE: One of the directors of RWS has made contact with me regarding this issue and has offered to repair my windows free of charge by way of a goodwill gesture following the delay in getting hold of them. Just waiting to finalise the details of the visit with my tenants. It was explained to me that RWS underwent a period of re-structuring that resulted in some cases being left unanswered but it seems they are addressing the outstanding issues as best they can. I'll update again once the work has been done. As I say they've been proactive in putting into place the steps necessary to get the work carried out I just need to get my letting agency up and running now!!

I will indeed. I guess it hinges around whether they have any obligation to come round in the first place. The windows were installed in 2008 and I'd expect a standard warranty of some sort though quite where that bit of paper lies I am not sure!!!

That's them!! Haha. I'll be quoting their slogan in my letter, of course! Maybe they'll change it to "great communications builds a great working relationship............unless it costs us money."

Thanks for the advice. I'll try that route! Just need to get my ducks in a row before I write to them.

Hi. I currently let out a flat which had some large balcony doors replaced in 2007 by Red Window Systems in Cheshire. The original problem was that the windows leaked and they were helpfully replaced under warranty. The new windows are better but the tenants have asked me to look into getting RWS round again to tighten the locks and carry out some basic maintenance to prevent further draughts and traffic noise. However, the company are not responding to any of my requests. They operate a "call back" service when you ring them and don't call back. I have emailed one of the company directors and am ignored. The lettings agency I use have also tried persistently to get hold of someone but have received a similar lack of response. Obviously this lack of action reflects very badly on me to the tenants who I do not want to disappoint, of course. Any ideas about the next course of action? I'm stuck! Many thanks.

When was the towing?? I thought that since October (?) last year towing and clamping on private land was illegal. I would suggest finding out who the directors are of the management company. Try to recover the money from them personally. The PPC will ignore any judgement, the management company (if they're anything like mine) will turn a blind eye, but the directors of the management company will not want to be personally liable for the company's debts!! Don't know the exact ins and outs maybe someone could advise but it might be an avenue worth exploring? Worth trying for a grands worth of your rightful money. Good luck and keep us posted!!

My car was unlawfully taken by a different PPC and a friend of mine who specialises in contract law gave me lots of information on how to get my money back, having done a lot of work on my part, but in the end it's a cat-and-mouse game where blame is passed around and the only result is that you spend more money trying to get the original sum back. The landowner will defend their liability in any case involving the PPC by saying the expect the PPC to act lawfully during the course of their business so it's not their problem. If the judge agrees you COULD be liable for the landowner's costs in having to defend a case to which they have been deemed to have done no wrong. So then it's down to the PPC. As we know, they'll simply ignore any CCJs and carry on as they did before. The owners of a PPC are not necessarily liable for the actions of their business so they are safe as well. I was disappointed to learn all this but with starting a new job etc I don't have time to chase these idiots around ad infinitum. I'm content with knowing that I worked hard enough at school to not have to take to cowboy clamping to make a living. The law allows us to not pay PPC tickets, but it also allows PPCs to clamp and tow with total impunity. I am looking forward to hearing what changes are afoot with the imminent ban on private clamping - something needs doing!

Have charged interest at 8%. Shame my car is taking so long to fix, it must be ramping up the cost now!

Quick update for you: LBA sent to PPC and site management company asking for settlement for all costs associated with the unlawful towing of my vehicle plus damage done to it during the process. Neither party replied so court proceedings about to commence against them. My solicitor says we have a very good case given the evidence presented so keeping my fingers crossed. I can't remember if I have mentioned this already, but in a phone call to the management company shortly after the event they disclosed that there is no known written contract in place with TGS Parking! Amazing.

My local MP is fully aware of what has gone on with these cowboys. He's a fierce campaigner against what he knows is an illegal, immoral, unregulated, criminal activity. This is the second time I have written about the parking - and my next letter will be referring to police apathy!

Would the landowner also be known as the "freeholder"? If so I have found a company name!