gound rent taking house off friend....

[lisamellor]

hi there i was wondering if anyone could please advise a friend of mine, she has been receiving letters at her address for a couple of months now but with the wrong name on so she has been sending them back to sender as not known at the address. so today she has received a letter addressed to j.andrews/the leaseholder ( she is not j andrews) now she has lived at this address for around 7 years now and has no mortage on it and the gound rent is £25. per year.

 

this is the letter she received

 

freehold collections

po box 142

bolton

bl3 6wr

fax no 01204 385020

 

18th july 2006

 

dear sir/madam

 

final warning before action

 

collection name..... j andrews/the leaseholder

 

address .....69 ........

 

ground rent unpaid £25.00

 

administration expenses to date £40.00

 

total outstanding £65.00

 

despite recent letters warning you of impending action regarding ground rent arrears we have yet to receive payment.

 

please note as the lessee of the property you are fully responsible for payment of the ground rent and also any administration and legal costs incurred in the recovery of arrears.

 

unless we have received full payment in full by 31st july we will apply for forfeiture of your lease due to the breach. this simply means that your lease will be cancelled and the property will then belong to us. please note that this is onlu done as a last resort and we would prefer if you paid your arrears rather than take your property from you.

 

we look forward to receving payment. please write your address on the rear of the cheque and make payment to landmark investments.

 

 

freehold collections

arrears department.

 

 

 

now this letter is not even professional it is printed on bog standard paper, it has not even got a phone number on it and it has no name to get in touch with anyone. now my friend hasnt received any letters in her name. she wants to pay the ground rent but to be honest when i looked at the letter it seemed very unprofessional and i dont think she should have to pay admin costs??

 

so we dont know what to do. any help would be much appreciated.

 

cheers lisaxx

[callumsgran]

Does she know where she has to pay her ground rent? just tell her to ignore the letters they are not addressed to her, she shouldn't be opening them anyway! she is breaking the law!!

[lisamellor]

hi cillit, the mail was addresses to j andrews/the leaseholder... so does that mean she cant open it as it said leaseholder?? and she doesnt know where she paid her gound rent to as it used to be a place in the town centre but the address on this says bolton...

 

lisaxx

[Rich44]

She's not breaking the law if it says /leaseholder as that implies Mr x OR the leaseholder which she most certainly is.

 

I seriously doubt whether they can "cancel" a lease for the non-payment of £25 sounds a bit OTT to me but as for how legal that is I dont know.

 

Has she been paying the ground rent and does she have a means of proving that?

 

The letter could be a con or it could be a genuine DCA (if there is such a thing) either way as long as she has been paying her ground rent then she has nothing to worry about

[lisamellor]

hi rich, she has been paying her g/r but hasnt paid it for a few years as she has had no letters from the ground rent people (who were in manchester) that is another reason why i think it is odd as it is 25.00 per year and these people are requesting 25.00 & 40.00 admin costs???? that doesnt add up to me, it doesnt say anything about being in arrears at all. and i find it odd that they are threatening to take her house off her seeing as this is the first letter she has been able to open, and if they were who they said that they are surely they would know what her name is!

[lisamellor]

hi all,

 

help me please!!

 

well sent the letter off to them saying that if they could prove that they are the people who she is now to pay ground rent to then they would have to prove it.

 

so they sent her a letter with copies of everything ... fair enough but they are still trying to charge her 40.00 for admin charges. like i said they cant possibly charge her as they sent the letters to the wrong name and she couldnt legally open them so she sent them back.

 

she is sending them a cheque for the 25.00 tomorrow, along with a letter that i am writing for her.

 

any ideas on what to write regards to the admin charges and for them to see that they cant charge her??

 

thanks lisaxx

[blacksheep1979]

Just put that she has never been billed for the ground rent up until the letter of xx so she doesn't acknowledge the admin charges.

 

If they take her to court for the charges but not for the ground rent that is a seperate fee and nothing to do with the lease then her contract shouldn't be under threat

[lisamellor]

this is what the letter they wrote says

 

dear......

 

RE your recent letter regarding refusal to pay ground rent and admin charges

 

thank you for your recent letter upon which you chose to remain anonymous. our recent letters have been sent to a J ANDREWS as this is the person we have as the owner. when you bought the property your solicitor should have served notice upon us to say that you were the new leaseholder. this means our details are wrong due to a fault on your side. we generally charge £25.00 for a acceptance of a notification of assignment- this invoice has not been raised as we were not notified. our client landmark investments are the owners of the interest in your property which they acquired from a mr weisberg, 71-73 chapel street manchester. we have written to all properties concerned but again because we were unaware of your involvement you would not have opened the letter.

under the terms of you lease you are liable to pay us ground rent within 30 days of demand. you are also liable for any costs incurred by our client in recovery of arrears. we have attached proof of ownership.

 

PLEASE NOW FORWARD A CHEQUE FOR £65.00 TO COVER YOUR ARREARS MADE PAYABLE TO LANDMARK INVESTMENTS. IF THIS PAYMENT IS NOT NOT RECEIVED WITHIN 10 DAYS FROM TODAYS DATE WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH LEGAL PROCEEDINGS TO RECOVER THE DEBT

 

regards

 

freehold collections

 

 

 

so i am sending the 25.00 cheque tomorrow.

 

as i said previously i dont think that i should have to pay admin charges.

 

or should i?? the letters still does not seem to be backing down

 

lisaxx

[callumsgran]

tell them you are only paying the ground rent and not the admin fees as they are disproportionate! they must seek these through the owners of the property as it was them who didnt notify them of the change of leasee!

[callumsgran]

p.s send cheque for £25.00

[lisamellor]

cheers cillit!!!!!!!!

 

i thought it would be something like that, but im not as clued up as you lot are!

 

by the way do you mean that the previous owners should have informed them?? as the previous owner died and the house was up for sale for a while??

lisaxx

[blacksheep1979]

someoen had to own the property after the previous tenant died and

 

under the terms of you lease you are liable to pay us ground rent within 30 days of demand.

 

You will be paying within 30 days of YOU being asked

 

Also just point out that the £40 is disproportionate to their costs and they will not be able to recover it in court - or pay it and you get it back througgh court - that way they get court fees on top as well

[callumsgran]

No the solicitor should have, as stated in the earlier letter!

[Bookworm]

dear......

 

RE your recent letter regarding refusal to pay ground rent and admin charges

 

Wrong. You are only refusing to pay the admin charges.

 

 

thank you for your recent letter upon which you chose to remain anonymous.

 

upon which? jeez.....

 

when you bought the property your solicitor should have served notice upon us to say that you were the new leaseholder. this means our details are wrong due to a fault on your side.

 

So sue the solicitor.

 

we generally charge £25.00 for a acceptance of a notification of assignment- this invoice has not been raised as we were not notified.

 

"generally?" Either you do or you don't.

 

we have written to all properties concerned but again because we were unaware of your involvement you would not have opened the letter.

 

Huh? Who WRITES these?

 

you are also liable for any costs incurred by our client in recovery of arrears.

 

Wrong. You may be liable for reimbursement of their reasonable costs, and you will gladly do so when they submit 1) proof of said costs, 2) proof that you yourself are in arrears.

 

IF THIS PAYMENT IS NOT NOT RECEIVED WITHIN 10 DAYS FROM TODAYS DATE WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH LEGAL PROCEEDINGS TO RECOVER THE DEBT

 

CPR states 28 days... Tut-tut-TUT!!!! naughty collection people!!!

 

so i am sending the 25.00 cheque tomorrow.

 

as i said previously i dont think that i should have to pay admin charges.

 

or should i?? the letters still does not seem to be backing down

 

That depends what the admin charge is for, really. I have the same problem, where the horticultural fees and other cr@p comes to a couple of quid a year, but the admin fee for this is £30 +... Totally ridiculous...

[lisamellor]

thanks for your input all!! this is a letter i have drafted up to send today please please feel to correct!!

 

dear ........

 

please find enclosed cheque for payment of ground rent.

 

may i point out some things you said in your previous letter.

 

you stated

under the terms of my lease i am liable to pay you ground rent within 30 days of demand.

 

i will pay within 30 days of you asking ME.

 

you stated.

that i was refusing to pay ground rent and administration charges.

 

i am not refusing to pay ground rent.

 

you stated

when i purchased the property my solicitor should have served notice upon you, to say that i was the new leaseholder. this means your details are wrong due to a fault on my side.

 

may i say that the information you have may be wrong, but this is not a problem on my side as previous payments for ground rent have been requested under my name, not a J ANDREWS.

 

you stated

you generally charge 25.00 for a acceptance of a notification of assignment-this invoice has not been issued as you were not notified.

 

generally?? either you do or dont. also when i purchased the property you and the company you are representing did not own the interest in my property, your client landmark investments which they acquired from a Mr Weisberg of 71-73 chapel street, manchester did so why would we pay you??

 

you stated

i am liable for any costs incurred by your client in recovery of arrears

 

wrong. i may be liable for reimbursement of their reasonable costs, and i will gladly do so when they submit 1) proof of said costs

2) proof that i am in arrears

 

you said that if the payment is not received within 10 days from the date of the letter (which the letter is not dated so how would i know) then you would move forward with legal proceedings to cover the debt.

 

the CPR states 28 days.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

so how does that sound??

[Bookworm]

thanks for your input all!! this is a letter i have drafted up to send today please please feel to correct!!

 

dear ........,

 

please find enclosed cheque for payment of ground rent [of xxxx pounds].

 

may i point out some things you said in your previous letter?

 

you stated:

 

"under the terms of my [your] lease, i am [you are] liable to pay you ground rent within 30 days of demand."

 

i will pay within 30 days of you asking ME. [i am paying you within 30 days of you asking] (you're enclosing payment, remember?)

 

you stated.

that i was refusing to pay ground rent and administration charges.

 

i am not refusing to pay ground rent.

 

you stated

when i purchased the property my solicitor should have served notice upon you, to say that i was the new leaseholder. this means your details are wrong due to a fault on my side.

 

may i say that the information you have may be wrong, but this is not a problem on my side as previous payments for ground rent have been requested under my name, not a J ANDREWS. [if you persist with that ridiculous line of argument, then I am really looking forward to you explaining to a County Court judge how an error in your records, of which I know nothing, can be deemed my fault.]

 

you stated

you generally charge 25.00 for a acceptance of a notification of assignment-this invoice has not been issued as you were not notified.

 

generally?? either you do or dont. also when i purchased the property you and the company you are representing did not own the interest in my property, your client landmark investments which they acquired from a Mr Weisberg of 71-73 chapel street, manchester did so why would we pay you??

 

you stated

i am liable for any costs incurred by your client in recovery of arrears

 

wrong. i may be liable for reimbursement of their reasonable costs, and i will gladly do so when they submit 1) proof of said costs

2) proof that i am in arrears [which I totally deny, as per above]

 

you said that if the payment is not received within 10 days from the date of the letter (which the letter is not dated so how would i know) then you would move forward with legal proceedings to cover the debt. [As your letter is not dated, it would make it quite difficult for anyone to ascertain exactly when the 10 days start, or indeed finish. Furthermore, (then onto the next paragraph)

 

the CPR states 28 days.[The Civil Procedure Rules state 28 days is a reasonable time to try and settle a dispute without resorting to Court, I am therefore somewhat surprised that you are prepared to go ahead with legal proceedings without first attempting to mitigate out of court, as is your duty. Should this actually ever proceed to court, be assured I would have no qualms in bringing this to the attention of the Court.]

 

yours faithfully

 

 

so how does that sound??

 

I suggest alterations as above, and a thorough spellcheck. You are playing fast and loose with your capitalisation and punctuation, it makes the letter look unprofessional. You also need to change things back every time you are quoting to the exact quote, like this:

 

You said: "You are liable..."

You stated: "We will do this..."

 

When you quote, you have to quote precisely, not altering it. I highlighted in red the first paragraph to illustrate, but not doing the whole thing!

 

Have fun.

[lisamellor]

thankyou very much boookworm, your help is really appreciated!!

 

lisaxx

[Lariele]

Reading what has been said here - as a Landlord I can tell you this. The original freeholder to which your friend paid the ground rent appear to have transfered the freehold (sold it) to another party. Your friend should have been notified of this and given the right to buy.

 

Your friend possibly has the right to buy her freehold at the very least at the price it was sold to the new freeholders.

 

I would strongly suggest engaging a solicitor who is experienced in this kind of thing - for example my own conveyencing solicitor is experienced but she refuses to do litigation work, this is because it is too costly on her time (she has a family to look after). She does however have a firm she recommends people to use for litigation because they have more time available to them and more experience at litigation.

 

There are laws to protect you in relation to the sale of the freehold of the property - you need to get some information on those. I can't help with telling you where to get that information other than strongly suggest taking legal advice. It might cost a couple of hundred quid to get advice and a letter or two from a solicitor in relation to this but frankly it will be worth every penny!

 

Edit: also go look here for advice on buying the freehold - I found this through another post on this forum Shelter: Buying the freehold

 

Also this details of when they sell the freehold to a non resident - you should have been offered the right to buy first! Shelter: Sale of the freehold to a non-resident

 

Hope this helps!

[lisamellor]

thanks for that lariele,

 

im just packing for my holiday at the moment so when i get back i will look into it. she did get the option to buy it when she bought the house but hasnt had the offer since, so if she gets anymore letters then i will be sure to add that.

lisaxx

[Lariele]

thanks for that lariele,

 

im just packing for my holiday at the moment so when i get back i will look into it. she did get the option to buy it when she bought the house but hasnt had the offer since, so if she gets anymore letters then i will be sure to add that.

lisaxx

 

Ok well have a great holiday!

 

Also though - when she bought the house she had the offer to buy (right of first refusal) but for some time (years even?) she was making payments on the lease and under the terms of the lease to the specified landlord. It would appear that later on the lease has been sold, was she given right of first refusal at the later date? I am pretty sure she should have been given the right of first refusal at that time too. The Landlord didn't sell the lease at the time he offered her the right to buy, but when he did sell quite some time later, he didn't inform her of the change of landlord or offer her the right to first refusal. Her circumstances could have easily changed from when she bought the property to the date the freehold was sold.

 

I really would say get some legal advice, for the amount it will cost it will be worth it, but that right to first refusal / right to buy thing I've seen stuff in the Telegraph money section on that too very recently. I'm interested in this because if I want to sell my freehold I will have to offer it at a reasonable price (usually a multiplier of the ground rent) to the tenant. If I then hold onto it for a few years I'll have to re-submit that offer to the tenant before I can sell it on elsewhere.

 

Hope you get it sorted. Sounds absolutely like she should not be responsible for the costs and the new Landlord doesn't sound too clued up (especially if they can't even get the name of the tenant right!!).

[JonCris]

Who conducted the purchase for you?