Rights to footage.

[[nothing]]

Hello everybody.

 

A couple of years ago, my camera equipment was used to record a number of sporting events for release locally on DVD (for a company that I no longer work for).

 

At the time, he was a friend, so I pretty much let any payment slide, as I wanted to do was see the company grow.

 

After a while, he screwed me for money on a number of other things. I still have the footage for several shows that haven't been released, that he claims I need to hand over as he owns the legal rights to them.

 

A friend of mine (who works in a professional filming capacity) informed me of that I have a legal say in all footage recorded with my equipment as I was never paid for my services nor were the people manning the cameras weren't employees (or paid either).

 

He also told me that whilst I can do nothing as regards selling the footage to a third party (as he would still have IP rights), he can't sell any shows recorded with my equipment without my say-so either.

 

I'm not especially after money from the guy, as although it would be nice, i'd be joining a never ending queue of people he owes money to. I'm really just after some clarification of who owns any/all rights to this footage.

[dx100uk]

as you worked for the company at the time of filming, the footage will be the companies property [regardless of how/who you got to do it].

 

 

the company negotiated the rights, so can do what they like with the footage.

 

dx

[[nothing]]

Even if all staff are freelance?

 

I worked for the company, but you wouldn't really class anyone as an 'employee' per se. There are no contracts or anything like that.

[dx100uk]

just because you didn't 'want' to get paid makes no diff

 

did the company negotiated with 'whoever' to film the events, if so its their footage. if you could of filmed it anyway, then they have no pull on you and you could sell it to them.

 

dx

[[nothing]]

As I said, i'm not overly interested in making any money from this (either from him or from selling it), i'm just curious to see if I can block him from selling footage from a time where my equipment was used and no monies were paid to anyone who owned the equipment, filmed the events and edited the DVDs were paid.

 

To be honest, i'd rather bury the remaining footage that I have (that he doesn't) in the desert than see him make a single penny from it.

[dx100uk]

ok

well the only question left then is could you have been allowed to film the events if the company had not negotiated with whoever [body/club or WHY] you were filming?

 

if the answer is yes, then you can do what you like.

if the answer is no then its his footage.

 

thats why i mentioned payment.

 

dx

[[nothing]]

Well, the guy was as I said, at one time, a friend of mine.

 

The company he used to previously film his shows was proving too expensive, so I brought my equipment in (including sound equipment) to film the shows.

 

Although at the time we didn't discuss payment for this (as it was fairly close to 'ruin'), I was always promised money when it was in a better state.

 

Several times throughout the history of the company, I paid for items on the understanding that i'd be paid later, which never happened (although that is probably a seperate issue).

 

The guys who manned the cameras were not employees of either him or me, they donated there time and were never paid for it.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a guy in the industry told me that this combination of events gives me some IP rights on said footage. He may well be talking rubbish, but he himself has held footage to ransom and even confiscated footage under these same conditions.

[dx100uk]

at the end of the day you need to answer the question i posed.

i agree there are mitigating circumstances, but i feel that makes no diff.

 

look at it anotherway.

 

if the shows organiser said to you tomorrow, i only let you film the shows because i was under the impression you worked for 'x' with whom i had given rights to to film my shows...i now want the footage, you would have to give the footage up.

 

if he was not worried that you filmed it and would if asked given perm to do it, then it belongs to you.

 

cant explain it any clearer, your call.

 

dx

[[nothing]]

No, I obviously wouldn't have been allowed to film without the permission of the guy running the show. However, the shows don't feature any kind of signs or literature stating that nobody can film the shows. Nor does it feature this on the tickets.

 

I know that at some sporting events, this is broadcasted audibly before the show begins, but this isn't the case at these shows.

 

if the shows organiser said to you tomorrow, i only let you film the shows because i was under the impression you worked for 'x' with whom i had given rights to to film my shows...i now want the footage, you would have to give the footage up.

 

I would have to give up footage despite not being paid for my services (and having not being paid for it for almost a year)?

 

I don't work for a production company, i'm just a guy (and a former friend) who was asked to bring his equipment in to film some shows. On the promise that i'd be made good later.

[dx100uk]

you being paid or not by 'x' company is not the event orgs problem.

if he made an agreement that the event was to be filmed by 'x' company and thought you worked for him, then its his footage.

 

"i'm just a guy (and a former friend) who was asked to bring his equipment in to film some shows. On the promise that i'd be made good later."

 

then you did it under his rights, the org gave him his perm to do it, - he [company 'x' has rights to the footage.

 

i dont where you would stand if you now said - ok pay me & i'll give you the footage. pers, i think on very dodgy ground.

 

isn't life interesting.

 

dx

[[nothing]]

But the guy who owns the company is the event organiser, the very same guy who owes me money.

 

I'm not sure if it's me being confused, since i'm waaaaay tired, but i'm reading like you might think they are two seperate entities.

[dx100uk]

tick.

yep i did.

well that make it even more interesting.

 

what a pickle.

 

he could get very funny about this.

 

i'd call his bluff

pay me & you can have your footage.

 

dx

[Bookworm]

Or if you want to be funny about it and stand your ground: Say "no, take me to court for it" and see if he does. If he has so little money, it's unlikely he would fork out for a court case where it is far from clear cut.

[KJD]

;1962223']To be honest' date=' i'd rather bury the remaining footage that I have (that he doesn't) in the desert than see him make a single penny from it.[/quote']

 

IMHO - you've answered your question...

 

[electron99]

How is the footage stored.Is it in digital form on a card or tape?.Who bought the card or tape.If it were you, then all you need do is tell him that you erased the images to re-use your property.Not much he can do then.

[caledfwlch]

Thats what I was thinking Electron!

 

If the OP is a freelancer did not have a contract with the company, then could he actually be considered to have been employed?

 

Since there was no contract, is the OP actually legally bound to have kept that footage? IE if he phones up and says give me money, the organiser says No, fine says the OP i am deleting it right now, he isnt breaking any laws is he? Where is the contract for example for storing the footage for all this time?

[buzby]

Ownership of the equipment is a red herring - as these are classed as 'tools'. A freelance contractor has no employee rights, but can still use the leverage of retaining the material to secure payment of any outstanding debts due for professional services.

 

There may well be a market for the material (or there may not) but the commissioner needs to make that call about whether it is worth it to him to pay to have the material released to him. You cannot use it yourself for any other purpose, but as an incentive to pay, its a pretty good one!