babegem v Phoenix recoveries/HSBC

[babegem]

I have received a county claim regarding a debt owed to HSBC bank. This was sold to Largo Legal and Receivables, and I have been paying token payments, and paid off one account already by settlement.

 

Out of the blue (no letter before action) I received a claim form.The claim is from Phoenix recoveries, and has not been particularised well (refers the whole debt to be for an overdraft.

 

I sought advice from a solicitor (after plenty of tears and panic), and was advised to defend the whole amount on a few counts, and this has been done and submitted.

 

Due to the solicitor charging me £1000 so far! (despite my honesty to her and being given no guide the bill would be anything like this, I have now had to take back the handling and am scared to the point of exhaustion (cant sleep).

I sent the recommended request for documents and proof (CAR?) giving 14 days to respond and received only three documents back, including the credit agreement for one loan (which is not the same reference number as on the claim/account ref in their letters), and nothing sincwe the 14 days have passed.

 

I have been to CAB but whilst they are being helpful their advice is slightly inconsistent and having looked on here have seen some great advice (noteably by Andyorch) and am desperate for some help.

 

I now have just a few days to fill out and return my allocation questionnaire, and am confident I have a strong case however dont know how to get all the info and the next steps across.

 

My debt is made up of an overdraft, a loan and a flexiloan, plus around £1700 (not including interest) of unfair charges from HSBC. The total is around £8300 plus they have added to total £9300.

 

I have been paying a token £1 a month and have tried to negotiate a payment to Legal and receivables, but dont even know who Phoenix are!

 

Please please if anyone can help I would appreciate it so much. Andyorch if you read this please can you advise?

 

Thanks to you all in advance.

[silverfox1961]

I'm afraid I don't know enough to be able to advise you on this but by my replying it will bump your post up to the top of the pile.

I'll keep an eye out for you and if there are no replies, I'll keep bumping.

 

fox

[babegem]

Thank you so much,

 

I am hoping Andyorch will see this, as I know he has successfully helped similar cases.

 

Kindest,

 

Babegem

[babegem]

bump

[silverfox1961]

As promised, another bump

[babegem]

Thank you silverfox, I have eamiled a couple of the main guys on herew in the hope they will see it and help, getting realy anxious.

 

I have prepared a draft directions and info for the form, but need some tips as I need my besst chance of getting this struck off or settled before a CCJ.

 

thanks again for your support

[42man]

Babegem....i'll try and assist as best as I can...

 

Have you completed the AQ ?

 

A few threads here for this...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159341-court-papers-received-what-6.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

 

Have they provided any compliant default notices ?

 

Any statements for the duration of the account ?

 

Only one agreement ?

 

Any notices of assignment ?

 

There is another thread here where claims have been 'rolled' up which you might find interesting/helpful

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175176-help-claim-form.html#post1892590

[B3rty]

Have you checked to make sure the account showing on the POC is the same as your current account as HSBC have a habit of getting this wrong....I think if its been through Metropolitian they give it another number.....Check this out as it could be vital

 

 

BTW...Pheonix are a Luxenburgh based company using venture capital who buy UK debts from Banks on the cheep and use UK based servicing agents to get the debt processed ASAP to a county court judgement then a charging order thus turning an unsecured debt into a secured debt.

 

They are quite agressive but do back down when challanged .

[babegem]

Hi! thanks for helping!

 

I am about to do the AQ, I have made a draft of what I think will work...

including draft directions and further information. I have attached my draft directions.

 

The debt was originally with HSBC who did nothing to help at all, despite acknowledging my SAR request and the claim for refund of fees. Have all statements for 6 years, for bank account, showing charges added. Gave them the sum and claim as per this site's advice. They advised this would be looked into in line with OFT case, and would apply for a stay if I proceeded to court.

It was at that point with Metropolitain who agreed token £1 per month due to budget and unsustainable finances.

I then got notice from HSBC that the whole amount would be sold to Largo. and from Largo saying we will be managing it.

 

Let me give you a breakdown which is critical: there were two loans ( a flexi and a personal, each with their own account no) and a bank account with an overdraft, and a credit card.

 

I advised was happy to pay the credit card balance, and the loans as I owe it, but as was disputing the balance on the current account would not until the OFT have decided their route and can resolve the reclaim of fees.

The credit card was settled with Largo in June 08 (74% of the balance). Have kept all letters.

 

The flexi loan, personal loan and bank account have all been thrown together to make one account (with no breakdown of the balances at transfer) by HSBC in their letter of sale. Three credit agreements

 

I was told that with MCS the debt was fine, so dont know why was sold or if relevant.

Had no default on the flexi loan, no letter before action from largo on any account, and no corespondance whatsoever from Phoenix, only largo/legal and receivables. Dont know who Phoenix are, although looked them up and look dodgy (uk correspondance actually in the town where I live and has recently shut down).

Looked into date of company formation, stated Nov last year within a week of my claim form! Dodgy?!

 

There have been many phone and letter attempts from me to neg the debt, whilst waiting for them to look into debt. Have a letter from Largo acknowleding the dispute and claim back for charges, saying they would come back to, which they havent. Have been continuously paying to show willing and have budget prepared with CCCS bu managed myself.

 

Largo never accepted my payments but set up s/o anyway for £1 and wrote to advise will pay to total as soon as resolved dispute/reclaim fees, and intend to give more when situation changes. Told them am happy to pay and will as much as poss, but not for the full amount (will pay minus the reclaim fees until resolved, but by then at £1 month should be a while!)

 

Have had pay rise last summer (after SIF the card), and not resent budget to them yet as last I heard was they were waiting for info on dispute and noted I had no agreement neg as yet. No break in my payments of £1. New budget means I can afford £11 now to repay pro rata so is now sustainable.

 

Got the claim and filled out defence with solicitor for the whole lot, due to various factors:

1 Account number doesnt match

2. not particularised

3. I made attempts to neg and have been paying

4. No letter of assignment (phoenix)

5. No disclosure docs

....

 

 

tbc

[babegem]

Sorry for the overload of info, but I am limited on time as have to get my AQ back by this Thursday to courts.

 

Basically the claim was for an overdraft/bank account, not two loans and overdraft as I suspect is truth. The acc no they have quoted is not that of my old bank acct referred to with HSBC (I only had one bank account with them).

 

Have sent them Disclosure CAR request, and they have received through court the draft defence drawn up by solicitors (this has a mistake in it too I have noticed! On the account ref as (I admit I had an account with them but not the one they mention).

 

They have replied saying they are looking into request and that some info requires me to send £10 as SAR. I Used the template from this site. The only docs they sent were a copy of notice of assignment, but again lumping the accounts together, and a copy of CCA for the personal loan (different acc ref no. to claim), no CCA for the bank account/overdraft or the other loan. 14 days deadline has been and gone, no further docs sent, and I didnt send the £10 as advised by CAB.

 

I also had email correspondance with a litigation exec from Largo in May 08 who has now left the co, and she acknowledged the dispute and would refer to HSBC for confirmation of this. Heard nothing since then re the lumped together account until the Claim arrived. She managed the SIF on the Credit card I had with them. SIF by contribution from family.

 

I can attach all or any docs tht may help as have scanned them this eve.

 

If I attach my draft directions can someone advise if they sound about right?

 

I also need to ask for time to adapt my defence that already submitted as not in position to defend with info/docs/particulars. Where and how do I do this?

 

On my form I have ticked Yes to 'would I be happy to try to settle', on provision of detailed and strictly proven particulars. In line with prev letters.

 

Any thoughts or advice appreciated. Am going to be online all day tomorrow, and then off to the CAB at 1pm for some more tips. They have said they may be able to offer an advisor in court if it gets there.

 

They advised me to offer a SIF paid in installments direct to the claimant copy in the court, and imply that they should grab that as the case wil be struck out. Any thoughts on this?

 

I understnd there is now a circumstance that reclaims of fees have to be heard in situations of hardship, so will they have to address the reclaim of fees by bringing the case to court?

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Result hoped for is either SIF in installments and no further action, or struck out etc.

 

Very distressed and suffer from anxiety/panic attacks - depression (have advised both HSBC and Largo this.

 

[DocH]

Hi babegem, I have limited experience so cannot really help, but thought it might be a good idea if you posted up your defence (minus any details that might identify you) and your draft directions. This would give the experts a flying start when they do arrive. I may be able to offer some opinions on the draft directions.

 

HTH

 

DocH

[babegem]

Thanks for that, will post all relevant docs, incuding claim in the morning first thing.

 

Have to download files...

[caro]

Yes, if you could post POC and defence it would help greatly. If you haven't heard of Phoenix, it suggests to me that you weren't advised that the debt had been assigned to them, in which case they can't pursue the debt.

 

In the meantime, below is a link to how to complete an AQ http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html#post90317

[babegem]

Thanks Caro,

 

I have attached the claim and the defence. I havent done this before and cant see them here, so lets see if this works...

[babegem]

...and the final page.

 

I might add that there are a couple of things I feel have been left off the defence, however my sol advised me they are for a witness statement or the AQ.

 

She also boo booed the first page where it says I admit to have an account number: **** which was not the account I had. She didnt leave me time to correct this before it needed submiting and they have charged me £999.99 for comin up with this defence, hence I cant (afford) and wont be using her moving forward. - Very stressful chrismtmas indeed.

 

Can I amend the defence now or later? How do I?

 

Please note:

 

• Claim is not particularised or broken down into the three accounts.
  
• Claim is for an overdrawn bank account, not loans as well.
  
• Acc no was wrong.
  
• Have never received any correspondance from Phoenix, only Largo saying they have been assigned from Phoenix (dont they need to have sent me one from Phoenix, assigning to Largo? They have never explained who Phoenix are despite me emailing their litigation exec in June to ask her to breakdown and to identify/proove. This exec has now left Largo, and I imagine is replaced by the one who has signed the claim.
  
• Had no Letter before action
  

Have only been furnished with the following CCA which relates to one of the loans only, and again is not the right acc no. They have also only sent page 1 of 2, which I imagine misses out some further info.

Edited January 27, 2009 by babegem
small images

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Babegem!

 

I regret I'm pushed for time at the moment, as busy with our Annual Accounts and Tax Returns...as I suspect may be the case for quite a few other people!

 

This may at least bump your Thread.

 

The Thumbnails are too small to read. Suggest you try again but Go Advanced when you do, and keep doing a Preview of the Post before you commit, as then you can Test to see if the Images are coming up as you intend.

 

You can also go back end Edit your last Post, because you can change the links to try and get the main Images to appear.

 

Try using Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket as that is Free, and you can plonk your Images there and link to them. Make sure your Album there is set to Private, or else bankers and DCAs can see all that you have there. It's quite easy to use, so have a play!

 

Have a read of one of my own battles below:

 

BRW v A Particularly Nasty Bank

 

Whilst that relates to a Credit Card, many of the key issues are not that different. You just need to look at s77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 instead of s78.

 

I put some effort into the AQ Posts so that others could read how it came together, and the help I received getting there. It may at least show you how I went about it...and may give you some tips.

 

Default Notices and Termination issues apply to the Loans, as do Notices of Assignment if these alleged Debts have been sold.

 

My advice is to take a step back and pick out the key dates and issues, and use, say, a Spreadsheet to compile a time-line of events. Use one Column for each item (2x Loans, Bank Account/Overdraft etc). Put AC numbers at the top, and then see if you can make clear sense of what happened when.

 

From that you may see when the alleged Accounts were handed over, and what Letters you didn't get at the time, such as Default Notices and Termination Letters before the hand over, and then Notices of Assignment at the time of Sale/hand over etc.

 

The AQ stage is effectively another chance for you to get your own message across, so use it well. After that it'll be the Disclosure Stage, so we should have 14 days or so to help you after the AQ Stage before the next deadline.

 

If the enemy have made many serious errors, one option may be to submit an N244 to the Court and force the issue, i.e. ask the Court to Strike Out their Claim if it is riddled with problems. That may buy you time if you also perhaps ask the Court to Stay the Directions Order while your Strike Out attempt is heard (if may be dismissed without being heard).

 

Once we get past the Tax Return Deadline of 31/01/2009, I think there will be more people around on CAG to help...most are neck deep in bean-counting at the moment...

 

...which is where I should be right now!

 

Will help later all I can.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[citizenB]

babegem, I am so sorry, I dont think I will be able to help you very much. You have been given some good advice so far and a couple of links to look at.

 

As BRW has said, your images are very tiny, making it difficult to see exactly what is what and where you are. If you could sort them out, then I will have another look later on and see if I can help.

[babegem]

Does this work please BRW?

 

 

Does it show private?

 

All the docs are there

Edited January 27, 2009 by babegem
oops

[babegem]

I have created an album but dont know how to link it and keep it private?!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Babegem!

 

Sorry B, nothing to see at the moment!

 

I regret I have to leave you in the hands of others, as I am on a Deadline now for Accounts and have too few hours to hack them!

 

Must log off and concentrate!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[babegem]

bump,

 

 

anyone there? please? trying to post docs

[babegem]

....

Edited January 27, 2009 by babegem
wrong dtls

[babegem]

Does this work guys?

 

Please advise?

 

Login to a private Photobucket.com album

 

I tried to password it but have deleted the acc and private info instead.

[DocH]

Hi babegem, glad you're getting some help. The link you've posted takes you to a page on photobucket which asks for a password.

[42man]

Babegem....have a look at this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html