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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Taz11 v MBNA Enforceable ??


Taz11
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I think the important wording here is "I agree to be bound by the conditions of use"

 

NOT "I agree to be bound by the TERMS and conditions of use"

 

the word conditions has no real legal effect....you dont get prescribed conditions

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

 

This is my thinking as well.

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I think if it ever got to the court stage you could question the integrity of the documents supplied.

 

There does need to be a link between the two pages for them to be considered "one" which would embody anything.. let alone prescribed terms.

 

The link below gives some idea of what needs to happen when they want to scan documents and then destroy the originals

 

Document Management, Document Imaging, Document Scanning | Archival

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Sorry Taz, I missed your earlier post requesting help with a letter.. I will have a think on that one for you.. give me a couple of hours. And yes, I will pop along and have a look at your other thread. :)

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Taz, I think the "new token" issue has been debated on other threads, but to be honest I didnt really understand it.. If you are going head to head with these guys you do have be pretty sure of what you are saying, therefore I cant comment on that one. :D

 

Page 4 of your documents is without question a current terms and conditions page. There are default charges shown at £12.00 and as these didnt come into force until about 2005/2006 there is no way the page could be historical. That leaves you with just the first 2 pages.. are they linked.

 

For this one, I would suggest sending the CPR letter on Paul's thread, I gave you the link to that on your co-op pages.

 

Now you could use one of the many letters going into great detail on what is wrong with the document they have provided.. MBNA will for sure totally blank you. Once switched on, MBNA keep rolling. Have a look at the many MBNA threads for evidence of that.

 

I recommend you change tactics and hit them with the CPR letter, unless in the meantime Dave returns with a better idea. :D

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Would you maybe think this is a bit over the top??. The original cpr requests a signatory agreement, but mine had a signature, so I have omitted this bit and tried to put over the fact that the "application form" and the Terms and Conditions page are not related in any way. I've also included some information regarding the procedures required to store electronic information.

 

Could you advise accordingly if I have made mistakes anywhere............I'm still a noob...lol

 

thanks again.

 

Taz11

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a true copy of the credit agreement. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed. The documentation you have sent me is noticeably absent of prescribed terms relating to the account. The pages you have sent me are not proven to be either connected or related to each other and are missing any recorded data which could in fact relate the documents. I trust the BSI 008 Code of Practice On Legal Admissibility and Evidential Weight of Information Stored Electronically has been followed which states the following,

 

"An organisation needs to demonstrate that it complies with the five principles of information management on which the Code is based. These principles are encapsulated into a code of practice - the “Code of Practice for Legal Admissibility and Evidential Weight for Information Stored Electronically” (BIP0008) published by the British Standards Institute. Compliance with BIP0008 will ensure that the organisation manages its information according to best practice, thereby maximising the chance of electronic records being satisfactorily authenticated.

An organisation will need to have in place the following five information management components:

 

• 1. Representation of Information (i.e. an information management policy)

• 2. A Duty of Care

• 3. Business Procedures and Processes

• 4. Enabling Technologies

• 5. Audit Trails

 

 

I bring to your attention Component 3 of the code which specifically states the recommendations of the code are as follows, with regards to scanned documents;

The Scanning Process

The Code requires, for example, that records be kept on the system audit trail of key information concerning imported documents. This information should include as a minimum:

 

• Unique identifier for each batch of documents

• Date and time of scanning

• Identity of the person who performed the scanning

• Type of material scanned (e.g. paper document, microfilm, aperture card, etc.)

• Number of documents and number of pages in each document scanned

• Detail of post-scanning processes (de-skewing, de-speckling, etc.) performed

The Code recommends that records be kept in batches so it is easier to check that:

• All required activity has been performed

• Any anomalies have been noted

• Appropriate quality procedures have been completed

• Records of any exception processing have been made"

 

 

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will be acceptable in these circumstances.

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement, which specifically states within the signatory agreement where the "prescribed terms"can be found or located. I would expect a properly executed agreement to contain the prescribed terms, and information within the original document detailing where the "prescribed terms" are located. I hope that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

 

Regards

 

This seems ok to me. :)

 

I have linked you to another thread. Lexis is taking BOS to task for not providing a legible document, however, even the illegible document appears to be absent the prescribed terms. There are several letters on her thread which amended/adjusted to your situation might also be worthwile considering.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/160990-lexis200-bos-take-two.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/156429-lexis200-hbos-blair-oliver.html

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I think the extra paragraph is superflous Taz. You have advised them what the law expects of them, by doing this you are letting them know that YOU have this knowledge of what they should be doing and if they havent then you will be questioning in great detail. :D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Ok, thanks cb (i hope i can call you that now...lol). I'll leave the extra bit out then. In this case less is more...lol,

 

thanks again.

Taz11

 

:D.. Yep, less is more. MBNA are b*ggers to deal with.. as they so often tell us.. They are an American Bank and UK laws dont apply to them :confused:

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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After sending the letter above, I've received a text message from MBNA to contact them regarding my recent correspondence, and a message on my answer phone to contact Matthew somebody or another urgently...............Guess the answer to that is going to be NO :D

 

 

I reckon your response is going to spoil his day. The reason they want you to phone is so there is no record. Be prepared for a smarmy, mind boggling reponse by letter in a couple of days.:cool:

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Hi pelham9,

 

 

sorry ??, could you explain?. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic with regards I have ,little or no defence, or agreeing that its possible.

 

thanks

 

Taz11

 

 

Taz, I think you have misunderstood Pelham's humour.. he is seeing into the future.. if MBNA were foolish to go ahead to litigation, how you would word your defence at that point :D

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Yes, wait for their response to your letter, but be ready with some more rope :p

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Yep, definitely let them WRITE to you. I suspect your letter put the cat among the pigeons :D

 

Whether or not you speak to them on the phone (and I hope you do not), still keep a record of the date and time they call. If they leave voicemail messages, keep a record of those as well. Even if they just say phone Joe Bloggs on xxxxxxxx.

 

If the calls become too troublesome and it isnt too much of a hassle, consider changing your telephone number.

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Typical MBNA/Capital one tactics. They just confuse the issues. Very frustrating.

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Ooh, I hope so Taz cos I am going to give those two calculators a go with my MBNA figures :D

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Having read the link Pelham, I have found some recent statements which indeed shows and states they charge a monthly interest rate of 2.5292 which I assume without having the necessary software is a rate of 34.95% and not 34.90 as shown in their t&c's.........................now just got to be able to prove it

 

sorry Pelham, just realised didn't need your software, used your formula and 2.5292 does indeed result in 34.9493% (34.95)

 

Interesting to note, they show the monthly interest to 4 decimal places but not the annual rate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

SNEAKY BLOODY GITS !!!. :(

 

Dont be shy Taz, tell us how you REALLY feel about MBNA :lol:

 

Now we just need to know how to put this all in a letter to convince MBNA we are on to them or to defend ourselves in front of a mathematically challenged DJ :???:

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Hi Taz,

 

I did a quick search and Optima does pop quite regularly on the forums. Here is one link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/173005-optima-legal-charging-order.html

 

I am just going to reread your thread from the beginning to see where you are at.

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Taz, have you received a default or termination notice or have they indicated in anyway that they were going to issue either of those ?.

 

Did you keep the envelope this came in. I see they havent given you a time scale within which to reply.

 

I would imagine this IS a response to your CPR letter, so I think you have them on the back foot.

 

IMHO, you need to send Optima Legal a response. Perhaps along the lines of an amended version of the letter in the following post, linked.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1800199.html

 

Alternatively you could write something along the lines of :

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I was rather surprised to receive your letter dated 6th February advising that your client would be proceeding with litigation.

 

I am currently waiting a response from your client/MBNA, to my CPR letter dated (whenever). A copy of that letter is enclosed for your reference.

 

Until I have received a reply, I am unable to assess whether or not I am indeed liable to your client for any alleged balance.

 

I would point out that your letter does in fact abuse OFT guidelines in several respects and I will be passing this on to Trading Standards and the OFT for their guidance.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

PRINT OR USE A HANDWRITING FONT - DO NOT SIGN

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Hi Taz, not that isnt a Default Notice. There is a prescribed format for a DN just as there is for an agreement and that doesnt have it. So if they want to say it is a DN.. it is definitely invalid :)

 

No I shouldnt think that MBNA have given Optima any other information other than "go get em".

 

So perhaps the short letter and include a copy of the CPR letter you sent to MBNA.

 

Howeer, if you decide to go with the longer letter, I wouldnt amend the protocols that X20 had in the letter I linked you to on Lexis thread. The letter you have posted above actually looks like a CPR18/SAR request and I can tell you straight away.. if they accept it as an SAR they will write back asking you for £10.00 and if they take it as CPR18 (which is only used when you have received the court papers) then they will simply ignore it.

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Thanks CB, so how would you amend the protocols in the letter in the link you posted. Failing that, a short, sweet and to the point letter which you kindly posted underneath with the copy letter sent to MBNA.:D

 

Thanks again

Taz11

 

Hi Taz,

 

You must not amend the protocols at all. Just the content of the letter (courtesy of X20) as so... I have done that for you, you just need to include the date you received the letter.

 

FOR OPTIMA

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re :

 

THIS IS A REQUEST UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 6th February 2009 this was received on (whenever).

 

You have indicated that:

 

"Your client has no alternative but to commence legal proceedings in order to procure a charging order on my home. "

 

I am sure that you are aware that I have long since requested from your client, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) a copy of the agreement to which both you and your client allege I am a signatory. To date this has not been provided to me and whilst I appreciate your client has endeavoured to persuade me that the provision of a copy of an illegible and piecemeal application form , not containing prescribed terms, is sufficient to discharge your client from further obligations under section 78 of the Act. Likewise I too have explained that the mere provision of a copy of an application form is not a legally permissable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 of the Act and as prescribed by Regulation 3 Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

I am sure you are also aware that under section 78(6) of the Act, whilst a creditor is in default of a request made under sub-section (1) they may not enforce the agreement.

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing and your client's persistent, unexplained and willful refusal to supply a copy of the executed agreement in accordance with its obligations (the permitted ommisions under Regulation 3(2) excepted), your client has made plain its intention to begin legal proceedings against me. In consequence this matter may now be treated as one which is subject to the control of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Take notice therefore that under CPR Practice Direction - Protocols paragraph 4.6(a) and (d), I request that you supply copies of the following documents:

 

[1] A true copy of the executed credit agreement incorporating prescribed notices, terms and conditions applicable at the time the agreement was executed and

[2] Any further or subsequent notices, terms and conditions relied upon.

 

Please note that my request under the Practice Direction is not a request for production within the confines of the Act and Regulations but rather, it is for a copy of the executed agreement, including signatures and all such other notices, terms and conditions as will be relied upon in the event that your client shall begin a claim.

 

A copy of the documents I have requested should be supplied to me within 14 days and you are urged not to begin proceedings for a period of not less than 14 days following the supply of those documents to me.

 

Should your client elect to ignore my request under the Practice Direction and commence proceedings, it is likely that I shall repeat my request for the provision of documents under CPR 31.14. In the event that your client should fail to comply with my CPR 31.14 request, I will not hesitate in making an application to the court for an order that further proceedings upon the claim be stayed pending provision of the requisite documents, in the course of which application I will of course refer to this and previous requests for the provision of copy documents.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within the time stated.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Right now, you need to send a follow up letter to MBNA.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

REF: Account no:

 

I am in receipt of a letter from your Solicitor, Optima Legal, a copy of which is enclosed for your reference.

 

As I have not yet received a response from my letter to MBNA dated (whenener) and received by you on (whenever) I was extremely surprised to receive Optima's threat of a charging order. Copies of both that letter and my reply to Optima are included for your ease of reference.

 

You are required by law to provide me with information in order for me to investigate fully the liablity to which you say I am a signatory. It makes sense to me that this is provided informally and amicably rather than on the direction of a Court order.

 

I would appreciate a reply to my letter dated (whenever) within 14 days. Alternataively, a Final response in order for me to bring to the attention of the OFT and Trading Standards, your disregard for OFT guidelines.

 

In respect to Optima's letter, I must now insist that all communication is conducted in writing in order for me to fully protect myself in respect of intended litigation by yourselves.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Enclosed: Copy of Optima's letter dated 6th February 209

Copy of my reply to Optima dated (whenever)

Copy of my letter sent to MBNA dated (whenever)

 

 

 

Then if you have not already done so and it is affordable. I would send a Subject Access Request to : Send this separately at the very least by Recorded Delivery.

 

MBNA Europe Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

ATTENTION: Compliance Department

 

In the SAR you must list everything you want to see. HTH

Edited by citizenB

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  • 1 month later...

Perfect, the letter from Optima returning it. Just what you wanted to happen. and the letter from MBNA.. hmm, do you see it has to be acceptable to them, not practical for you.

 

Now, I cant remember. I have they issued Default and termination notices on this account ?

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It is my understanding that before any court action then they WILL have to issue a Default Notice and then a Termination Notice.

 

However, this is MBNA we are talking about and as UK laws dont apply to them then who knows what will happen next !!.

 

I would imagine that they may well issue those over the next couple of weeks. They seem to have been sending out quite a few just lately. Thankfully they have screwed up on the Default notices:D So I think the termination notices means they unlawfully rescinded the agreement.

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I'll take that as reasonably good news then CB lol I'll wait in anticipation of the DN and NOA.

 

 

 

Amazing really, when apparently the account is with MBNA EUROPE, and as far as I'm aware the UK IS part of Europe.......lol

 

Yep, but someone forgot to tell the muppets in Chester ! :D

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  • 3 months later...

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4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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