Self Employed/Housing Benefit

[little nest of vipers]

Hi every one ,I am having major problems with Housing Benefit because my partner and I are both self employed, we have our own seperate companies. As such the H/B have requested our books, fine we earn nothing, as our businesses are fairly new. Its all come about after a home visit which is meant to replace the yearly review ( I object most strongly to the home visit) we couldn't answer all the questions the woman had so are accounts were requested.

They have requested more info than the tax office do, it took a couple of weeks to get the books done. They have taken figures completely out of context. To give you an example no allowance has been made for travel expenses ect they have averaged our H/B & C/T on gross invoices. My partner has to travel for two hours to get to work it costs £45 every time he goes!!!! Then when we recieved the the out come of take your kids to school day (and let them do all the admin) they say they can't accept us doing our own books again, they have to be audited. Would I be trying to claim H/B when its the biggest pain in the neck ever if I could afford an account???? Does anyone know if they can actually demand this?

Sorry its turned into a bit of a rant. Is any one else going through this?? We have four kids, two of which are disabled. We are on the phone morning noon and night with people telling them we earn't 20p last Thursday so we don't get in to trouble. They have just hit us with a bill for £1600 over payment because they don't know how and what to add up.

Some one please any one HELP

[silverfox1961]

HI, Got your PM.

 

This is a case for the CAB as it's way out of my league.

 

There is something that may help though with your overpayment.

IF you couldn't have known that an overpayment of housing benefit had been made AND someone within the benefits department has done something OR not done something that resulted in the overpayment.

 

The official line is:

Under the housing benefit regulations, all overpayments are legally recoverable

 

UNLESS The Overpayment was caused by an official error- this means the overpayment was due to some thing done, or not done, by us (the council) or the DWP (Department of Work and Pensions)

 

AND You, or someone acting on your behalf, (E.g An appointee), or someone to whom the payment was made, (E.g. Your landlord), could not have reasonably been expected to know that an overpayment was being made, at the time that the payment was notified or received.

 

AND You, or someone acting on your behalf, (E.g. An appointee), or someone to whom the payment was made, (E.g. your landlord),

did not contribute to the error's being made.

 

So long as you were renting your home and you gave them all the information and didn't hide anything they can prove, You may have a case.

Shouldn't matter whether you were self employed or not. They should have procedures in place to deal with that.

 

hope that helps

 

fox

[little nest of vipers]

Brilliant thanks Fox

[silverfox1961]

No problem,

I come on here regularly so I'll kepp an eye out and I may be able to assist in the future.

The thing to remember is that councils have to follow the rules too so they may seem big but they can be brought to book is they have screwed up.

 

fox

[little nest of vipers]

Yeah, its how to get them to back down and realise they are wrong. I have been called in now for an 'official interview' because they can't work out my benefit they have accused me of trying to fiddle the social. It's all wrong, but it will be money well spent getting them audited. When you talk to them on the phone they act like they are doing you a massive favour! One womans siad 'well its going to take me all day to go though your accounts' 1, sorry your going to have to do your job. 2, you asked for the truck load of info!! lol

[europa16]

Hi LNOV,

 

We're in a similar position to yourself, in that hubby is self employed and we've unfortunately found ourselves in the position of having to jump through the hoops to claim HB and CTB from the local council.

 

Whilst searching for info on how they work out benefit when you are self employed, I came across the following web pages. Hopefully they will be of some use to you when you have to go for the interview.

 

DWP - Advisers - Technical guidance - RR2 - Working it out (continued)(e) The info for self employed earnings is about 1/5 down the page.

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=S.I.+(All+UK)&PageNumber=19&BrowseLetter=H&NavFrom=1&parentActiveTextDocId=2478068&ActiveTextDocId=2478431&filesize=17746 It's a bit tough-going (well, it was for me ) but the council have to abide by this, by law.

 

BTW, when you say your partner has to travel 2hrs to get to work - is that place permanent? May have a bearing on whether they take it into account or not.

[little nest of vipers]

Hi Europa, Thanks for getting in touch and for the info. No, it wasn't permantent. The place he travele to was my partner customer rather than him being contracted by them, if you see what i mean. I've just been phone around local auditors and some offer to give you your first chat with them for free if that is any use to you. Maybe if they can't do anything for you they might be able to tell you where you can get help from. All the best keep in touch

[europa16]

No probs And thanks for the advice re. auditors, I may take them up on their free chat in the near future.

[little nest of vipers]

Well if its free i say do it! I can not belive they are t6hreatenin me in this way. We have two disabled kids, no one will employ us 'coz both my partner and I have had to leave full time employment to look after them, one child is his and one is mine. So we went s/e so we could work from home around the kids, four altogether and another two every other week. I feel like we are been persecuted because we don't fit in one of their little boxes instead they accuse us of robbing the goverment. Any way thanks again

[dano123]

Its all come about after a home visit which is meant to replace the yearly review ( I object most strongly to the home visit) we couldn't answer all the questions the woman had so are accounts were requested.

They have requested more info than the tax office do...

 

In my opinion, they are going way to far! That they asked for your accounts, fine, ... and if they insist in having them audited at THEIR expenses, ... why not (as long as whoever audit them is someone independent!!!), ... but it is the home visit that I don't get, ... and I strongly would object to it too! Unless they have evidence of fraudulent activities, I would have thought that it amounts to invasion of privacy, which is a breach of Article 8 of the Human Rights Act.

 

I would be enclined to make a formal complaint about the way your claim is being assessed, ... even getting your MP on board!

 

Have you received a detailed breakdown on how they reach their figures, etc... You are entitled to that information! Also, you have the right to appeal against any decision made, ... which is where having THEIR breakdown comes handy, as you have solid facts you can dispute.

 

Hope this helps!

[dano123]

They have taken figures completely out of context. To give you an example no allowance has been made for travel expenses ect they have averaged our H/B & C/T on gross invoices. My partner has to travel for two hours to get to work it costs £45 every time he goes!!!!

 

Going through a similar 'ordeal' myself at the moment!

 

With regard to the vehicle expenses that are not taken into account, one wonders WHY there is a section for vehicle expenses in the expenditure section of any form a self-employed individual has to fill in, if such expenses are NOT to be taken into account!

 

It was very patiently explained to me, that vehicle expenses are not taken into account because it is used to go to and fro where my business is, and other errands connected with it! YeeesSSS! That business would not be in existence if I was not able to do so, ... and I am the one paying for the fuel, etc.... It is NOT a case of my employer (which I haven't got by virtue of being self-employed!) paying for that kind of expenses, .... yet the latter is precisely what seems to be the line of thinking they are going along: an employer (me) pays for the car expenses of its employee (me again), ... i.e. those expenses are NOT taken into account for the employee (me)! What about the employer (me) who pays for these expenses? Of course I forgot to ADD the paid fuel expenses by my employer (me), to my income as an employee (me again!)!

 

Seriously now, ... there need to be a shift of perspective when self-employment income is calculated, ... but as it is an employed individual who makes the calculations, that shift of perspective is very hard to obtain, as they are stuck in their very own personal little boxes, ....

 

Funny thing is, every time I ask them to look at the figures again, they every time come up with a different income!!!??? ... So, I keep asking, until they calculate an income we all agree on, ... which will probably be when they finally will concede that the breakdown I gave them from the very start (using the little boxes of THEIR form) IS a true reflection of my financial situation!

[silverfox1961]

Morning,

I don't half have some weird thought first thing in the morning. At 6:30 this morning I woke up and thought," Has Little nest of vipers complained yet"

 

The point is, If you feel they have done something wrong, you need to complain. There is method in my madness.

In lots of council disputes, you can complain to the Local Government Ombudsman BUT you must have made an attempt to resolve your complaint first.

There is normally 2 stages of complain to go through (coincidentally called stage 1 and stage 2 )

I find that by going the stage 1 route first doesn't produce much but instead of going down the stage 2 route, bypass it and go direct to either the head honcho of the department or even better, The Chief Executive of the entire council.

The chief exec doesn't like to be bothered with "petty little problems", gets annoyed and passes the complaint down to the head of the relevant department with the order, "GET IT SORTED"

I used that when I got an overpayment sorted out.

 

fox

[little nest of vipers]

Hi dano, have a look at the links europs has posted, I've had a look and inteand to wave it all under their noses on thursday when I have my 'interveiw' its very clear that the car expences must be taken in to concideration and more. It think it will be really useful to you.

 

Hi Fox, my partner has an appointment on tuesday with them to try and get this sorted so I think then will be the time to make a complaint, we are already appealing. They will be sick of the sight on sound of me when I'm done. I have read that the council has auditors, just not for this type of thing. We are in the processes of finding an independant auditor for when we resubmit our books.

 

More than anything I find it hard to belive that they have over paid us when it is so difficult to find out what your entitled to in the first place let alone claim it! Through doing a bit of ringing around and making the right noises I've found out that we are entitled to an increase in a couple of things so when we do resubmit our book our figures will be different again and we are getting more money (bonus!) that should confuse 'um but it wouldn't be a problem if that department were doing thier job properly!!!