why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

[diddydicky]

Diddyduck,

 

I need to send something off to Welcome Finance as they have given me 14 days to sort my account out. Shall I just send a simple letter asking for an original credit agreement or can I go down the CCA route? Please let me know.

 

Thanks

 

 

Mashmallow

 

always start with the s77/79 request recorded delivery one pound postal order (crossed)

[mashmallow]

Could you please send me the template for this, will this still be valid even if the loan is only just over 1 year?

 

Mashmallow

[vint1954]

Could you please send me the template for this, will this still be valid even if the loan is only just over 1 year?

 

Mashmallow

The templates are all on the forum, however this is the standard request.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the alleged debt to your company, this letter is a formal request of true copy of a signed and dated credit agreement for the above account number, under the terms and conditions of section 78(1) of the CCA act 1974. I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £1.00

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

I enclose a postal order no xxxxxxxxxxxxx in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[michellej]

always start with the s77/79 request recorded delivery one pound postal order (crossed)

 

What if lenders have instructed legal proceeding ? then correct route would be CPR.31.16 ,.. is this correct? I have requested underwriters sheet ,.. and sent off formal letter ,.. might try the excellent letter above by Vint,... but change the bits to say CPR REQUEST ,... tomorrow is deadline day ,... none complience

[the_shadow]

What if lenders have instructed legal proceeding ? then correct route would be CPR.31.16 ,.. is this correct? I have requested underwriters sheet ,.. and sent off formal letter ,.. might try the excellent letter above by Vint,... but change the bits to say CPR REQUEST ,... tomorrow is deadline day ,... none complience

 

If legal action has been started i.e. you have received a claim form then CPR 31.14 is the one to use.

 

S.

[Gazza112]

What if lenders have instructed legal proceeding ? then correct route would be CPR.31.16 ,.. is this correct? I have requested underwriters sheet ,.. and sent off formal letter ,.. might try the excellent letter above by Vint,... but change the bits to say CPR REQUEST ,... tomorrow is deadline day ,... none complience

 

 

Hi Michelle

 

I may be corrected but if the lenders have taken legal proceedings, you need to send them the 31.14 letter. I think your find the 31.16 letter is only if your going to take proceedings against the lender to disclose documents.

 

Gaz

[michellej]

Hi Shadow,.... yes I am looking for disclosure under 36.16 ,.. lenders started legal proceedings regarding arrears , which is quite a while away , I intend to start legal proceedings for underwriters sheet as I know this agreement is not properly executed ,..

[pt2537]

erm the underwriting sheet would be relevent where there is an undisclosed commission payment

 

im not sure you would seek this for a credit card, furthermore if you did, then you face a £2000 costs order against you

[Gaznkaz08]

hi i've just read the first few pages and it's very intresting, i've gone down the usual route of CCA'ing a DCA to be supplied with an application form(halifax card) and some T&C's and they are very insistant this is enough to pursue it.

 

i've sent off the in dispute letter, and just this week a letter stating what OFT guidelines they are breaking and another disputing an application form is not a valid reply an not enforceable

 

now if they keep pushing can i use this CPR 31.16 form of attack, as if i understand it they need the original executed agreement to go to court not the application form

 

but if i do start this do you have to follow it through all the way to taking them to court, or will it make them think twice about trying it on and make them back off. Are you taking them to court to dispute the debt or just to get the documents?

 

if they didn't comply with it could you just wait for them to see if they started proceedings and then provide it as evidence saying they didn't comply.

 

we've had a very bad experiance in a court house and i doubt the wife would want to get involved with court unless we really really had to.

 

Still quite new to all this and it's a bit hard trying to get your head around it:)

[reallymadwoman]

hi i've just read the first few pages and it's very intresting, i've gone down the usual route of CCA'ing a DCA to be supplied with an application form(halifax card) and some T&C's and they are very insistant this is enough to pursue it.

 

i've sent off the in dispute letter, and just this week a letter stating what OFT guidelines they are breaking and another disputing an application form is not a valid reply an not enforceable

 

now if they keep pushing can i use this CPR 31.16 form of attack, as if i understand it they need the original executed agreement to go to court not the application form you could

 

but if i do start this do you have to follow it through all the way to taking them to court, or will it make them think twice about trying it on and make them back off. Are you taking them to court to dispute the debt or just to get the documents? you should never threaten action which you are not prepared to take. CPR 31.16 is intended to obtain the documents.

 

if they didn't comply with it could you just wait for them to see if they started proceedings and then provide it as evidence saying they didn't comply. In general, you are far more likely to succeed in defending an action by the creditor than you are in starting any action yourself.

 

we've had a very bad experiance in a court house and i doubt the wife would want to get involved with court unless we really really had to. This is how legal action should be, an absolute last resort if all else has failed.

 

Still quite new to all this and it's a bit hard trying to get your head around it:)

 

If you are still quite new and don't really understand what you can and can't do, you shouldn't risk doing anything without advice. If you have a thread of your own, post a link to it and you'll get plenty of help specific to your situation. If you don't, it might be a good idea to start one.

[michellej]

erm the underwriting sheet would be relevent where there is an undisclosed commission payment

 

im not sure you would seek this for a credit card, furthermore if you did, then you face a £2000 costs order against you

 

 

Hi ,.. yes I seek to address secret commission , plus other points what I can see are wrong like brokers fees added to total amount of credit ,.. no terms in place ,.. I have followed your advice PT , from the beginning of this thread ,..

 

here is a link to my thread unegulated secured second charges !now covered by CCA 2006?

any advice or thoughts would be great ,.. thanks best wishes

 

sorry how do I add a link ?

[Dotty50]

I right click on my thread title, copy shortcut and then paste it on the post. It doesn't always look as though it works but it does

[foolishgirl]

Think this is the one you want michelle:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/239658-unegulated-secured-second-charges.html

[Gaznkaz08]

If you are still quite new and don't really understand what you can and can't do, you shouldn't risk doing anything without advice. If you have a thread of your own, post a link to it and you'll get plenty of help specific to your situation. If you don't, it might be a good idea to start one.

 

 

i've got quite a few threads running and have already received loads of advice and am quite enjoying the learning process, My case i was referring to above might've gained another angle of attack or been scuppered this afternoon:|

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/241985-mis-sold-ppi-claimed.html

[diddydicky]

What if lenders have instructed legal proceeding ? then correct route would be CPR.31.16 ,.. is this correct? I have requested underwriters sheet ,.. and sent off formal letter ,.. might try the excellent letter above by Vint,... but change the bits to say CPR REQUEST ,... tomorrow is deadline day ,... none complience

 

CPR 31.14 if you already have a summons - as suggested by shadow but NOTE

 

MAY COULD MIGHT POSSIBLE are not notices of intended proceedings- they are just threats

 

WILL is the only word you need look for

 

they will not reply to 31.16 anyway (excpet to say no) and it will just waste your time

 

get a cca request (postal order crossed and endorsed "to be used for CCA s77/79 fee only" recorded delivery

 

also get a SAR off to the OC

[michellej]

CPR 31.14 if you already have a summons - as suggested by shadow but NOTE

 

MAY COULD MIGHT POSSIBLE are not notices of intended proceedings- they are just threats

 

WILL is the only word you need look for

 

they will not reply to 31.16 anyway (excpet to say no) and it will just waste your time

 

get a cca request (postal order crossed and endorsed "to be used for CCA s77/79 fee only" recorded delivery

 

also get a SAR off to the OC

 

Guy's I am getting lost ,.. my court proceedings are for my arrears on account ,.. I will deal with this seperate ,.. I have requested my agreement / underwriters sheet as I dispute agreement and believe secret commissions , plus my brokers fee added to total amount of credit ,.. once I clear up arrears ,.. I will be free to challenge the agreement as I believe not properly executed ,.. so will be 2 seperate courtcases ,.. and I will be taking legal proceedings againts lenders for disclosure of agreement as that will be part my case ,.. so hopefully I have followed this thread correctly as PT advised , in getting my agreement ,.. come on PT is this not correct ,..

 

THANKS DOTTY X

[skintasa]

hi,

can someone please tell me how i start a new thread ?

thanks.

[michellej]

hi,

can someone please tell me how i start a new thread ?

thanks.

 

go into home page ,.. look at the subjects down the side ,.. click one ,.. at the top should sat start thread ,.. click this and fire away ,..

[jaybeed242]

Hello everyone,

I have been helping myself to advice that you provide for few months as trying to get some fraudulant defaults removed.

My story starts when i went for application for a rented property and was refused via credit check. Upon checking my credit file i have 3 defaults from 3 different catalogues, littlewoods, jd williams and marshall ward for which i have never used. Contacting them they refused to remove them or discuss any further until i had provided them with evidence of my place of residence during one period as jd williams was taken out at my work address where i was bar manager. I have no bills or evidence as been recently staying at parents after my divorce so been here there and everywhere. Back to point i reluctantly paid all debts off in full totaling £982 just so i could get on with my life and also with the lies of they will be removed but they are still there and now they are saying that because i paid them i have taken responsibility for them. Feel so stupid but just wanted it resolving. I have reason to believe the debts where taken out by my ex partner who would have had access to my home, work and details. But she will not comment! PLEASE HELP i just want to get on with my life thank you

[foolishgirl]

Hi jaybeed - welcome to CAG

 

1. Were the agreements in your name? And importantly, do you recall signing anything?

2. How long ago did you make the last payments? Is there anything still outstanding on them?

3. Have the accounts been cancelled or are they still open?

[jaybeed242]

1. Were the agreements in your name? And importantly, do you recall signing anything?

2. How long ago did you make the last payments? Is there anything still outstanding on them?

3. Have the accounts been cancelled or are they still open?

 

hello

1. the accounts where in my name but i did never agree or apply or sign for them.

2. I paid in full in august 2009

3.they have been staisfied but still have defaults showing and in various telephone conversations with them discussing that they where not mine they refuse to remove or say they cant remove the defaults!!!!

many thanks

[foolishgirl]

So it sounds as though the accounts are still active so you could use S77/78 CCA1974 to obtain agreement copies (although I doubt they have them - these catalogue companies are notorious for not having agreements) but would suggest you use instead a SAR to each OC, amending the template below to also specifically request a copy of the agreement. Also ask them to send the key codes to any logs they send you.

It costs £10.00 for each one. Sign the letters but put crosses through your sig. so it can't be copied & pasted. Send Rec. Del. They have 40 days to supply the info:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

When you have obtained the info. you will be in a better postion to see where & when the account was used & hopefully it will provide you with grounds for proving that the account was not yours. IMO making payments is not admitting to the agreement, you could have just been clearing debts on your ex's behalf but you may need to convince a judge of that so the more evidence you can get tog. the better.

 

Be aware that even if you are successful in removing the defaults you may not get the money back that you have paid.

 

If you need further advice, you may be better starting a new thread for each company in the appropriate forum where you will get other CAGers who have been through similar problems. eg:

Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums

[Peterbard]

So it sounds as though the accounts are still active so you could use S77/78 CCA1974 to obtain agreement copies (although I doubt they have them - these catalogue companies are notorious for not having agreements) but would suggest you use instead a SAR to each OC, amending the template below to also specifically request a copy of the agreement. Also ask them to send the key codes to any logs they send you.

It costs £10.00 for each one. Sign the letters but put crosses through your sig. so it can't be copied & pasted. Send Rec. Del. They have 40 days to supply the info:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

When you have obtained the info. you will be in a better postion to see where & when the account was used & hopefully it will provide you with grounds for proving that the account was not yours. IMO making payments is not admitting to the agreement, you could have just been clearing debts on your ex's behalf but you may need to convince a judge of that so the more evidence you can get tog. the better.

 

Be aware that even if you are successful in removing the defaults you may not get the money back that you have paid.

 

If you need further advice, you may be better starting a new thread for each company in the appropriate forum where you will get other CAGers who have been through similar problems. eg:

Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums

 

Hi

Yes all good advice

 

Catalogue conpanies are exempt under section16 of the act so a section78 would not be appropriate unless your partner made a one off credit purchase for which they would have provided an agreement.

 

I think this is relly a data protection act issue.

If i were you i would ask to be put in contacct with the companies data control officer all companies have one some times they have differnt titles but they will know who you mean.

Protest that your persanal information has been missused and threaten them with a report to the ICO. It is worth you having a look at the ICO website and considering starting a complaint.

 

Usually these compamies are quite carefilabout Data protection i know my wife has an account with littlewoods and they will definately not talk to anyone else about her account i have tried.

 

So you have to ask yurself how was the account oppened in the first place.

Was it oppened on line? or by post if the latter you could order a copy of the letter using yur DPA order do you have credit checking on yur computer.Modt catalogues so a search before the open an account this may give you a clue as to if the account was correctly oppened and exactly what cate the application was made.

 

Best of luck

 

Peter

[diddydicky]

Guy's I am getting lost ,.. my court proceedings are for my arrears on account ,.. I will deal with this seperate ,.. I have requested my agreement / underwriters sheet as I dispute agreement and believe secret commissions , plus my brokers fee added to total amount of credit ,.. once I clear up arrears ,.. I will be free to challenge the agreement as I believe not properly executed ,.. so will be 2 seperate courtcases ,.. and I will be taking legal proceedings againts lenders for disclosure of agreement as that will be part my case ,.. so hopefully I have followed this thread correctly as PT advised , in getting my agreement ,.. come on PT is this not correct ,..

 

THANKS DOTTY X

 

 

excuse me for being a bit thick (i think a few more brain cells might have died)

 

1/ is this a regulated agreement? how is the creditor taking you to court for the arrears

 

2/ if it is how can you have TWO actions on the same agreement

 

3/ the creditor cannot start a claim for arrears then come back for another bite

 

or have i totally mis understood?

[michellej]

excuse me for being a bit thick (i think a few more brain cells might have died)

 

1/ is this a regulated agreement? how is the creditor taking you to court for the arrears

 

2/ if it is how can you have TWO actions on the same agreement

 

3/ the creditor cannot start a claim for arrears then come back for another bite

 

or have i totally mis understood?

 

Hi diddydicky ,... no probably the way I have tried to explain ,.. so here goes again ,..

 

I have a loan with G E Money , which is in arrears , last payment was made august 2008 ,... I was at court in the march of that year , arrears were £1500 . I had a suspended possession , that I paided monthly payment of £250 and i offered to pay an extra £250 off arrears ,... first payment march / last payment August ,.. £250 per month x 6 months = £1500 arreas cleared up ,... I contact G E Money at the beginning of August for a statement as I wanted proof I had cleared arrears ,.. I got a statement ok ,... when the statement arrived I was horrified,... I would make payments of £500 (normal monthly payment + £250 off arrears ) ,.. well statement show arrears had increased over time ,.. I noticed 7 days after payment G E kindly charged me £335 interest charge ,..finally reaching £405 per month interest ,.. so in fact the £250 arrears payment was eaten up from interest , plus added £85 / £165 per month to arrears ,.. so arrears were now in fact higher then previous 6 months when I was at court,.. obviously I contacted them straight away as I was really concerned as family home at risk ,.. I called G E and requested the agreement as I was going to contact solicitor regarding this as not right at all and unfair conditions,.. I was advised that it would be dealt with in house and that while in dispute payments would be frozen ,.. so 15 month passed by , then out the blue a letter from G E saying eviction would take place in 3 weeks time ,.. (just before xmas) ,... arrears £5700 ,.. these arrears stacked up over the 15 month ,.. the 15 month the account was in dispute and the lenders advised they would deal with it in house and freeze payments ,... well obviously I appealled eviction and thought best thing to do sell family home to get away from all the stresses as very ill with stress and depression ,.. but after reading up on forum and taking a little legal advice was prepared to give it a final shot to save home ,... I was going to dispute total agreement so requested the agreement under the CPR 31,16 ,.... the lenders have still not complied ,...

but after more reading , I have decided to deal with arrears seperately on the grounds I state as easier to prove ,..... but still continued with agreement request as I will challenge the agreement under a different courtcase ,... at least the threat of eviction will be gone and have all the time in the world to expose this agreement ,.. as i know brokers fees were added to toal credit amount and been subject to interest charges for the last 7 years ,.. with the companies involved I believe a secret commission was paid ,.. also it was restricted credit and none restricted credit merged into one agreement ,.. no terms in place for either part the agreement ,.. no true costs of brokers fee or terms in place ,.. plus should of been multiple agreement ,.. and as restricted credit was £3,700 , should be regulated under CCA ,.. thats why their wanted to deal with this in house ,... then leave it for 15 months ,.. remember I was on a suspended repossession order ,.. they could of evicted the week after I never paid ,.. so in august 08 G E could of taken possession , why wait 15 month ,... surely the timescale tells a story in itself ,... hope this explains ,.. and any help will be greatly appreciated ,