Is this a standard or dodgy CCA request reply from HSBC?

[citizenB]

Hmmm, I have just looked at HSBC loan agreements OH has had in the past and currently..

 

Each page is numbered 1 of 6 , 2 of 6, etc.

There is a code on each page on bottom right.

The account number is on each page bottom left.

 

There is a signature box containing the statement "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the COnsumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms".

 

There is a separate page with the Direct Debit mandate to be signed and further separate page for any Insurance product taken out to cover the loan.

 

Did they provide you with a "Demands Needs and Recommendation Statement for the Managed Loan".

 

HSBC is bound by the Direct Debit Guarantee. They cannot refuse to cancel the mandate. If they do, then get in touch with the FSA.

 

Like Fred Basset, I would also be querying that rather glaring mistake re the date for the final repayment.

[lisaf]

Hi Citizen,

i did blank out the account number which was on the top left (i think) of each page.

Not sure what a 'demands needs and recommendation statement for the managed loan' is but pretty sure i haven't got one!

When i'm on internet banking, i can cancel any other DD or SO but NOT that ML.

Will defo report them to the FSA for that.

Thanks again

Lisa x

[lisaf]

Hi Citizen,

i did blank out the account number which was on the top left (i think) of each page.

Not sure what a 'demands needs and recommendation statement for the managed loan' is but pretty sure i haven't got one!

When i'm on internet banking, i can cancel any other DD or SO but NOT that ML.

Will defo report them to the FSA for that.

Thanks again

Lisa x

[underdog13]

Natwest online banking won't let me cancel my DD for my loan, either, and they took the funds out of my overdraft, driving me further into debt! Seems they're a law unto themselves My sympathies lisaf.

[lisaf]

Hi Underdog - yes it's absolutely shocking! I'm only surprised that they bounced it and never paid it as that would have put us further into the red and they could have given us even more charges!

Lisa x

[underdog13]

Hi Lisa

From what I understand they are only supposed to take payments (offsets) from accounts that are in credit; so it seems your lot at least are adhering to the rules. Couldn't believe it when I saw Natwest had pushed me further in to debt! Some interesting info given to me by enamae:

 

banking: firms' right of 'set off'

 

in particular;

 

 

The basic position is that a firm has a right – but not a duty – to look at a customer’s overall position and to ‘combine’ the accounts held by that customer. This is sometimes called a right of ‘set off’ or a right to ‘combine’ accounts. A firm has this as a general right, whether or not it mentions the right in the account terms. So, in the examples above, the firm can transfer money from an account that is in credit in order to make payments due on another account. But it does not have to do this.

Certain conditions must be met before the firm can exercise its right of ‘set off’.

The account from which the firm transfers funds must be held by the customer who owes the firm money.

The account from which the firm transfers the money – and the account from which the money would otherwise have come – must both be held with the same firm.

The account from which the firm transfers funds – and the account from which the money would otherwise have come – must both be held in the same capacity by the customer concerned. So, for example, if Mrs C holds a savings account in her capacity as treasurer of a local society, the firm cannot take money from that account to pay Mrs C’s personal credit card bill that she normally pays from the current account she holds in a personal capacity.

The debt must be due and payable. For example, if a customer misses making a loan payment, then (at least until it calls in the loan) the firm can take only the missed payment – not the balance of the loan.

 

Best of luck with everything, Lisa:)

[citizenB]

Hi Citizen,

i did blank out the account number which was on the top left (i think) of each page.

Not sure what a 'demands needs and recommendation statement for the managed loan' is but pretty sure i haven't got one!

When i'm on internet banking, i can cancel any other DD or SO but NOT that ML.

Will defo report them to the FSA for that.

Thanks again

Lisa x

 

 

HSBC, should have completed a "Demands Needs and Recommendation Statement for the Managed Loan" which is basically an Income & expenditure sheet to see if you could in fact afford the managed loan.

 

When I SAR'd HSBC on behalf of OH, I discovered that they had 'manipulated' the figures to ensure there was sufficient funds to pay the loan they were arranging.

 

They had in fact included funds which OH had no legal right to . .. ie my income, they had also not included any utility bills or other creditors. By doing this, they had effectively prevented paying any creditors I had. As this was a personal loan for OH, they should have only taken into account any contribution I made to the household budget.

[underdog13]

This is dynamite, Citizen B. I was never asked anything like this when I got my loan from the bank. Just to check this is for personal unsecured loans?

I received what appeared to be properly executed documents, well it had the terms anyway, I was just going to roll over and take a second job (if I can find one) to pay them. Think I'll be sending a SAR

 

What outcome did you achieve, CitB, when you proved their error?

[citizenB]

 

Castlebest, I am attaching a copy of the DD guarantee. The last bullet point says that the DD can be cancelled at any time !!. I have received one of these from each company I have set up a DD for over the last 2 years or more. ie, Telephone/electricity/council tax/TV Licence etc.

 

 

 

This from the FOS.

banking - direct debit guarantee

 

Direct debits are now a major part of daily life, with many people using them each month to pay their household bills. The direct debit guarantee is a powerful safeguard for customers. So it’s important that firms make sure their staff understand its provisions.

Unfortunately, many do not. Here are some of the things firms have told customers (incorrectly) when problems have arisen:

‘We don’t operate the direct debit guarantee.’

‘You’ll have to contact the originating company for a refund.’

‘We need a month’s notice to cancel a direct debit.’

‘The guarantee doesn’t apply – because you haven’t suffered a loss.’

If you pay by standing order, it is up to your bank to send the payment. If you pay by direct debit, it is up to the payee’s bank to call for the payment, but you will rightly look to your own bank/building society to ensure the smooth running of any direct debits. Mistakes and errors are covered by the direct debit guarantee.

The direct debit guarantee applies to all banks and building societies taking part in the direct debit scheme. It says that:

 

 

 

If there is a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, the person receiving the payment (the originator) must notify the customer in advance.

 

 

 

 

If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid.

 

 

Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.

 

You have to make any complaint regarding the DD guarantee to the FSA. Check out this link for information regarding complaints to the FSA.

 

How to complain to a financial firm

 

 

Lisa, I have copied posts over from one of my own threads regarding the Direct Debit Mandate.

 

When I advised HSBC that I was going to complain to the FSA regarding their blatant disregard of the Direct Debit Mandate code. They cancelled it immediately and refunded the charges incurred by making the account go overdrawn. Whether or not the outcome will be the same for you I dont know. But if you dont try ?? At the very least you can point out in defence, that HSBC misled you into believing you could afford such a loan, when in all honesty they knew darn well you couldnt. Responsible lending ??? I dont think so.

[citizenB]

This is dynamite, Citizen B. I was never asked anything like this when I got my loan from the bank. Just to check this is for personal unsecured loans?

I received what appeared to be properly executed documents, well it had the terms anyway, I was just going to roll over and take a second job (if I can find one) to pay them. Think I'll be sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

 

What outcome did you achieve, CitB, when you proved their error?

 

Underdog, the FOS are investigating a catalogue of errors on the behalf of OH v HSBC at this very moment. I will update my thread when/if I get a result. I spoke to the person who is investigating last week.. he reckons it might take some time....

[lisaf]

Hi Guys,

 

just checked again on online banking and it's a standing order - how will that differ to my rights compared with the DD?

Many thanks

Lisa x

[citizenB]

Hi Guys,

 

just checked again on online banking and it's a standing order - how will that differ to my rights compared with the DD?

Many thanks

Lisa x

 

I am not certain, I understood you could cancel a Standing order at any time. I thought they were much preferred because you have a say in when the money comes out.. not the bank ? They arent something I have had much to do with.

[Patma]

i did blank out the account number which was on the top left (i think) of each page.

Lisaf , You've missed one.I pm'd you with the details of where it is, but not sure you got the message.

[lisaf]

Hi Patma,

 

thankyou so much for that - I have just read it now. Not sure how I can delete it now though (I'm such a novice at these things)!

 

Lisax

[Patma]

I'm no expert either, but I think you can click "edit", then remove that page, and re-scan with the numbers blanked out. There may be an easier way, which someone may be able to suggest though.

[lisaf]

Thanks Patma x

[DCA-KING]

I would sign the letter with a sprawl i do so i know if it turns up on any letters

cuz i have proof thats its not my signiture

REGARDS DK

[Patma]

oops sorry Lisa, just checked and noticed there is no edit button on that post. Sorry I'm stumped. Hope someone can explain how to remove stuff when necessary.

[citizenB]

I'm no expert either, but I think you can click "edit", then remove that page, and re-scan with the numbers blanked out. There may be an easier way, which someone may be able to suggest though.

 

oops sorry Lisa, just checked and noticed there is no edit button on that post. Sorry I'm stumped. Hope someone can explain how to remove stuff when necessary.

 

Patma, you are correct as in your first post. You can only edit your own posts and wont see the "edit" button on other peeps' posts:D

[Patma]

Ah durrr! I learn something new every day! Thanks for that Citizen. I never thought of that.

[citizenB]

Ah durrr! I learn something new every day! Thanks for that Citizen. I never thought of that.

 

Took me ages to work out why I was the only one with an "Edit" button

Edited November 14, 2008 by citizenB

[Patma]

That's priceless. Well you just came across someone(me) who didn't manage to work that one out on her own, so I guess that makes you a superior intelligence.! LOL

[Pipster2797]

citizen B thank you so much. I learn something new everyday and you helping lisaf has made me realised that HSBC did this with my overdraft and would't let me cancel the DD for the loan or CC and then kept taking them for around 3-4 months, putting me further into an overdraft, charging me for that unauthorised overdraft and then charging me for them refusing the loan and overdraft as they must have thought the overdraft was high enough!! I can remember thinking there is nothing I can do about this and a £1,500 OD went to 3,000 in total with them paying the loan and CC and all the charges.

 

I never once thought about the DD Guarntee!!

Edited November 14, 2008 by Pipster2797
Mistake

[lisaf]

Right today the crafty so and so's have taken the loan payment out.

My OH's wages were supposed to go into his new account but didn't (don't know why - he has to speak to wages dept). As soon as the money hit the account, they took it but with a slightly different reference on it - like it was done in a bit of a hurry!

Gutted!

Lisa x

[underdog13]

God how annoying:mad: I'd kick the butt of the person in the wages dept if I were your other half. I take it you've moved any remaining funds into your new account?