Newbie with 1st Credit

[lol321]

Hi Guys,

Had my very first encounter with 1st credit yesterday, they phoned me saying that they bought the debt off of Citicard and wanted payment in full, they have given me till the 13/10/08 to find means of payment. Although they did phone me again this morning didn't answer it though.

The citi debt was on a dmp plan through payplan they then defaulted it.

I am going to send a CCA request to 1st tomorrow, but can someone then tell me the steps that follow:

If 1st supply the CCA?

If they don't what are the steps to get them off my back.

Also is there anything under the DPA to get them off my back if Citi have passed my details on to a third party without my consent.

 

Having read a few posts about 1st credit I have concluded they are a bunch of Wan*ers to deal with so any advice would me much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[42man]

Wait and see what comes back from 1st.....IF they provide a CCA, then you have to establish if it is enforceable....are there many potentially reclaimable penalty charges that have been added to the account ?

[lol321]

Not too sure about the penalty charges, I always paid ontime etc before I went into the DMP it was actually that that caused the arrears and the problems - I shread the majority of my statments so would probably need a SAR to get that info, will wait and see what they come back with.

Thanks for your reply

[MONX]

Also, did Citicard send you a warrant of assignment, basically saying that they had passed the debt to 1st Crapit?

 

This is something they should do, I am not 100% sure if the DMP would alter that but I doubt that.

 

Ive had dealings with the "people" at 1st Credit, just stick to your guns, send off the "correspondence by letter only" template if the phone calls become annoying. Everyone's advice on here (except the more experienced forum members who like to play with the DCAS) is dont answer/phone them. They can be aggressive and could pursuade you into a payment plan that you cant afford.

 

I would ingore all requests for contact until they have answered your CCA request, It is always a good idea S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the OC as this will establish unlawful charges and your payment evidence. They have 12 + 2 days to comply after that your account is in dispute, this means until they provide the CCA they cannot go for legal action. (Well some DCA's threaten and even go as far as sending Statutory Demands in this case but they can be set aside quite easlily as the the alleged debt is in dispute)

Edited September 28, 2008 by MONX
added a bit

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[willtheywontthey]

subscribing

[lol321]

No haven't had a warrant of assignment from citi, the last correspondence from them was the notification of default letter. Citi have been pretty much contacting be direct whilst on the DMP asking me to increase my payment.

 

So do you think the sar is worth doing as well then? Would this be sent to citi as opposed to 1st?

 

Thanks

[babybear39]

Report citi to Trading Standards and the OFT for contacting you direct whilst on a DMP as this is against OFT guidlines.

 

SAR to citi as they're the original creditor to find out if there are any unlawful charges on the account.

[lol321]

Just sent the CCA request off, Has anyone got the correct sar template as I have seen a few different templates around?

[babybear39]

Here's one for you:

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Print, don't sign your name. Use a £10 postal order keeping a copy of the serial number to check if they cash it, send recorded keeping a copy of your letter with the postal reciept.

[lol321]

Cool thanks babybear I will get that off to citi later - is that 40 working days to respond?

 

I haven't yet informed payplan of this yet, do you think I should or do you think they will cock it up with 1st crapit, they are still paying citi at the moment too

[robcag]

Hi lol

 

Hi Guys,

Had my very first encounter with 1st credit yesterday, they phoned me saying that they bought the debt off of Citicard and wanted payment in full, they have given me till the 13/10/08 to find means of payment. And did they launch into a long conversation suggesting you borrow money from relatives/friends? Or equity release schemes? That's what I got when they started calling me before I found CAG. Although they did phone me again this morning didn't answer it though.

The citi debt was on a dmp plan through payplan they then defaulted it.

I am going to send a CCA request to 1st tomorrow, but can someone then tell me the steps that follow:

If 1st supply the CCA? Hopefully you'll get the same result as me. I haven't received anything, not even acknowledgement, but I have proof of posting and delivery. You did send your request by Recorded or Special Delivery?

If they don't what are the steps to get them off my back. In my case, absolutely nothing. They went strangely quiet after receiving my CCA request, having previously made all sorts of threats including legal action leading to a charging order.

Also is there anything under the Data Protection Act to get them off my back if Citi have passed my details on to a third party without my consent.

 

Having read a few posts about 1st credit I have concluded they are a bunch of Wan*ers to deal with so any advice would me much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Good luck

Rob

[WorriedGirl]

I'm in the same boat as yourself with first credit. I sent a CCA request on 2nd April and finally received a letter last week saying that they have enclosed "an edited copy of the signed agrreement in respect of the above account and would ask for your comments. If you confirm that this is your signature we will of course send you a complete copy of the relevant document. We would also invite your proposals for settling this outstanding debt."

 

I thought that I had to get the CCA inside the time limit of 12+2+30 days. As this was received last week after 5 months, what can I do? I don't even know if they have sent me the CCA???

 

Help!!!

[lol321]

Rob thanks for the reply, yea they did start going into one about borrowing the money from friends and family etc, they also said I could use my redundancy money as well, like thats going to happen!! (its long gone),

I hope they go quiet, I applied for the citi card online in 2003 so don't know what they will find if anything.

[babybear39]

Report 1st crud to Trading Standards and the OFT for suggesting you borrow money as this is against OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008:

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

[lol321]

Hello, 1st Crap are supposed to be sending my CCA by tomorrow, can some one post up the No CCA bog off letter for me please.

[42man]

Send recorded...

 

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

[lol321]

Thanks 42man

[WorriedGirl]

Hi guys,

 

sorry for butting in, but would the above letter be suitable for me? First credit sent me a couple of photocopied things 5 months after I requested the CCA and told me it was an edited copy of the agreement, that they would send me a full unedited copy if I acknowledged that the signature on the photocopy (of what looks like an application form) was mine. Should I send them this letter also? Should they have sent me the actual credit agreement and not a photocopy? I don't know what to expect.

[lol321]

Hey, haven't been around for a while, still trying to deal with 1st Credit.

 

I offered them a full and final as they haven't been able to come up with the goods, have been corresponding via email after the original letter sent to them.

 

Then sent me this after I raised my offer from 500 to 800, can someone take a look and give me a decent reply.

 

Thank you for your email and comments in respects to the situation. Your offer of £800.00 is not deemed a reasonable offer based on the fact this is a credit card debt. This is regarding purchases made with a card which have not been paid back. We are still looking into your request for copy of the invoices to provide you with details of the amount. I have put another request for the copy agreement since we are still waiting for this information.

 

We are not prepared to remove default that we consider to be correct.[/font] You may wish to consult the website of the information commissioner who defines a ‘default’ as follows; The term ‘default’, when recorded on a credit reference file should be used to refer to a situation when “the lender in a standard business relationship with the individual decides the relationship has broken down”.

In our opinion theagreement does not become illegal or void because we have been unable to provide a copy agreement. We are unaware of any sanctions expressly stated in the Consumer Credit Act that provides for any remedies or for sanctions where monies are paid by the customer where the creditor is in breach of this section.

 

Should legal action be taken we will of course question you under oath in respect of this debt. Such as whether you recall taking out the card, previously admitting, making repayments in accordance with the agreement etc.

 

I note you have ceased making payments. Should our client subsequently obtain a copy agreement, or data required to create a ‘true copy’, then legal action will be immediately taken. (Being made via Payplan)

 

I hope we can get this resolved and your account is on hold while we wait for the clients to supply us with the Copy Agreement.

 

If you would like to get this account settled at a discount in which we are not required to provide we are happy to do so. The offer we provided prior was 3k ish against your balance £4k ish which is 30% off you outstanding balance. If you would like to take this opportunity then that is up to you to advise us but this is not up for negotiation.

 

Thanks in advance

[locutus]

Hi guys,

 

sorry for butting in, but would the above letter be suitable for me? First credit sent me a couple of photocopied things 5 months after I requested the CCA and told me it was an edited copy of the agreement, that they would send me a full unedited copy if I acknowledged that the signature on the photocopy (of what looks like an application form) was mine. Should I send them this letter also? Should they have sent me the actual credit agreement and not a photocopy? I don't know what to expect.

You should start your own thread. and have a read of this :-

Just thought i'd cut and paste this from the brilliant Peterbard....it would seem to be very useful, and I hadn't seen it in the DCA section...

 

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment
  

A is applicable

 

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.