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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Watch Out - Charging Order Rules May Be Changing !!!


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PS: However, when they do, as they will, I certainly hope I can come to you Sequenci for advice :)

Elsa x

 

Yes me to Sequenci. I can't afford to live in my house, I rent it out, in order to live on some of the remaining rental income! Have a horrible feeling in the future my creditor will go for charging order and possibly even an order of sale:(

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Yes me to Sequenci. I can't afford to live in my house, I rent it out, in order to live on some of the remaining rental income! Have a horrible feeling in the future my creditor will go for charging order and possibly even an order of sale:(

 

Hey Joe.

 

The creditor you have, is it for an unsecured debt? Have they a CCJ?

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Hi Sequenci,

Daren't name names just yet. Playing possum on a DN so faulty it should be framed. They're demanding full payment now but even so have not sent an actual termination notice as such, so am wary of alerting them to the DN.

Just at the "pre litigation" threat stage. The income drop was sudden and permanent :(.

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My husband works, I'm on benefits and between us we can cover our priority bills, but we got a lot credit (it was THROWN at us as we've always been good payers till now!) which was affordable with our previous good level of joint income..but not now.

Struggled on for a year (increasingly paying bills with credit) then the credit crunch dropped my husbands income too and hey presto..we're debtors!!

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My husband works, I'm on benefits and between us we can cover our priority bills, but we got a lot credit (it was THROWN at us as we've always been good payers till now!) which was affordable with our previous good level of joint income..but not now.

Struggled on for a year (increasingly paying bills with credit) then the credit crunch dropped my husbands income too and hey presto..we're debtors!!

 

Are you self-negotiating with the creditrors or have you an arrangement in place via a third-party (such as a DMP etc.)

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I've initially sent off CCa's to everyone. Still waiting for most of them.

Not paying anything except priority bills at moment until I check validity of everything.Those with valid CCa's and paperwork, I will self negotiate if possible. I'll challenge the others to the best of my ability on validity of agreements and DN's etc. I've no other choice, it's survival.

Elsa x

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I've initially sent off CCa's to everyone. Still waiting for most of them.

Not paying anything except priority bills at moment until I check validity of everything.Those with valid CCa's and paperwork, I will self negotiate if possible. I'll challenge the others to the best of my ability on validity of agreements and DN's etc. I've no other choice, it's survival.

Elsa x

 

Sounds like you have a solid plan laid out!

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The problem I see with CO's is the interest that may be added.

I know that in a lot of cases unless specified there should be no interest but there are many companies who are going for interest and getting it, rightly or wrongly and in the case of someone who can only afford a small token, the interest may rack up so horrendously that they may as well give up their home as there will be no chance of clearing the debt.

Legally it may be in order but morally when a DCA buys a debt for pennies in the pound and then gets a CO on the full balance plus interest, would you call that fair and decent?

I would rather go bust with equity in the house than allow a DCA to profit massively on my misfortune.

In the long run an early Bankruptcy may be easier than a slow strangulation by greedy DCA's.

Of course I will pay you everything you say I owe with no proof.

Oooh Look....Flying Pigs

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The problem I see with CO's is the interest that may be added.

I know that in a lot of cases unless specified there should be no interest but there are many companies who are going for interest and getting it, rightly or wrongly and in the case of someone who can only afford a small token, the interest may rack up so horrendously that they may as well give up their home as there will be no chance of clearing the debt.

Legally it may be in order but morally when a DCA buys a debt for pennies in the pound and then gets a CO on the full balance plus interest, would you call that fair and decent?

I would rather go bust with equity in the house than allow a DCA to profit massively on my misfortune.

In the long run an early Bankruptcy may be easier than a slow strangulation by greedy DCA's.

 

There are plenty of arguments against the interest being applied. Have a read through this thread I think I put some up. If you can't find the post let me know and I'll write them again.

 

As an aside I'm in the middle of writing a definitive guide to Charging Orders and will be posting it up over the weekend!

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Hey Joe.

 

The creditor you have, is it for an unsecured debt? Have they a CCJ?

 

Hi Sequenci,

 

Yes it's for an unsecured debt, credit card infact. Actually the amount on the cc is a balance transfer from one of my oh's cc. Our financial situation has changed dramatically, both OH & myself are receiving IB.:sad:

 

At present there isn't a CCJ. Hoping it will never go that way. Creditor is accepting token payments of £25 pm, they haven't passed it to DCA yet.

 

My only concern is that if they ever do go for a charging order, and as I don't live in the property they may even push for order of sale, but this is my only form of income, I have been on IB for 10year:eek:. OH has recently been diagnosed with mental health condition & it's going to be a long time before he will be able to work again, if ever:sad:

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Hi Sequenci,

 

Yes it's for an unsecured debt, credit card infact. Actually the amount on the cc is a balance transfer from one of my oh's cc. Our financial situation has changed dramatically, both OH & myself are receiving IB.:sad:

 

At present there isn't a CCJ. Hoping it will never go that way. Creditor is accepting token payments of £25 pm, they haven't passed it to DCA yet.

 

My only concern is that if they ever do go for a charging order, and as I don't live in the property they may even push for order of sale, but this is my only form of income, I have been on IB for 10year:eek:. OH has recently been diagnosed with mental health condition & it's going to be a long time before he will be able to work again, if ever:sad:

 

Could anyone you trust register a charge on the property? Has a relative or friend lent you any money or done any work on the property for which they are owed payment/have an interest?;) I believe this charge holder could refuse to allow the second charge from the creditor.

 

The form to register a charge is AP1 from the land registery.

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Could anyone you trust register a charge on the property? Has a relative or friend lent you any money or done any work on the property for which they are owed payment/have an interest?;) I believe this charge holder could refuse to allow the second charge from the creditor.

 

The form to register a charge is AP1 from the land registery.

 

That's very interesting, thanks for that underdog, but as things stand I do have a very large mortgage and not sure if the mortgage company would go for that. Plus in this current climate not sure of how much equity there is, if any.

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Joemay, do they know you have another property?

 

Hi babybear, I only have one property. The house we lived in before our troubles started was in my OH's name, but we had to sell for a ridiculous price, in order to cover for the mortgage:mad: otherwise we would have been heading for repossesion. My plan was to move back to my property, but unfortunately we couldn't afford to do so, so we are currently renting. I'm hoping one day to move back, it's the house I lived in most of my life and would hate to lose it:(

 

Not sure if they know I have the property, not something that I have told them, but the mortgage repayments shows on the CRA's so would just require a quick land registery search for them to find out.

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  • 3 months later...

I'm so glad to read the opinions in this thread as I've only come across MPs and other politicians so are in complete agreement with charging orders and the resulting orders of sale. Briefly, I had a charging order placed by the Northampton Bulk Court for a disputed water bill followed up with an order of sale. To cut a long story short, I tried everything to reason with the water company and even paid the disputed bill long before getting to court but they just pressed on with the order of sale adding interest and other administration charges and court costs which were granted to them by the judge. Just three weeks after the hearing, whilst I was trying to come to an arangement with the water company to pay these "costs" which amount to thousands of pounds, the water company have gone ahead and placed another interim charging order for these "costs". I'll just add for thoses who think I'm hiding something, that I'm up to date with all my bills including water but rather than reason with me, they just sneakily keep using charging orders. How wrong it it for them to profit from repossessing property through charging orders and orders of sale in this way? The only thing the Consumer Council for water had to say was that it's up to the judge to decide if it's legal, and if it's legal it's right. It's so refreshing to find opinions like in this thread.

Edited by meursault22
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I am just continually staggered by the complete bias that is seemingly shown towards creditors - and especially with things such as charging orders.

 

I cannot understand why lawmakers and others are so CREDITOR FRIENDLY. There are millions more voters than there are creditors - so what audience are they playing to?

 

People take out unsecured debt and then default. In the the vast, vast majority of cases it is due to a dramatic change, for the worse, in their financial situation. Banks and credit providers factor this in when they price loans and credit cards.

 

To then allow an unsecured debt, by the back door, to be turned into a SECURED debt, and with the possibility of the debtor being "turfed out" of their home, is just ridiculous. Who benefits from people being kicked out of their home.

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To then allow an unsecured debt, by the back door, to be turned into a SECURED debt, and with the possibility of the debtor being "turfed out" of their home, is just ridiculous. Who benefits from people being kicked out of their home.

 

The creditor benefits greatly, especially if there's tons of equity in the property that can be snaffled in adminstration charges. In fact they benefit so much it prompts predatory and aggressive behaviour where it is not warranted. As you say, the lawmakers and courts are very creditor biased and it will always be this way until fundamental changes are made concerning donations to political parties, which of course will never happen.

 

Money speaks all languages!

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I'm so glad to read the opinions in this thread as I've only come across MPs and other politicians so are in complete agreement with charging orders and the resulting orders of sale. Briefly, I had a charging order placed by the Northampton Bulk Court for a disputed water bill followed up with an order of sale. To cut a long story short, I tried everything to reason with the water company and even paid the disputed bill long before getting to court but they just pressed on with the order of sale adding interest and other administration charges and court costs which were granted to them by the judge. Just three weeks after the hearing, whilst I was trying to come to an arangement with the water company to pay these "costs" which amount to thousands of pounds, the water company have gone ahead and placed another interim charging order for these "costs". I'll just add for thoses who think I'm hiding something, that I'm up to date with all my bills including water but rather than reason with me, they just sneakily keep using charging orders. How wrong it it for them to profit from repossessing property through charging orders and orders of sale in this way? The only thing the Consumer Council for water had to say was that it's up to the judge to decide if it's legal, and if it's legal it's right. It's so refreshing to find opinions like in this thread.

 

This is one of the most shocking things I have ever read:eek::mad:

 

What water company was this?

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