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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Gazza112 Vs Halifax Credit Card


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Did you at any time make a formal CCA request together with the statutory fee of £1.00??

 

Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for looking at my post, yes i sent them a formal CCA request with a statutory £1.00 fee.

The replied sending me a copy off the application form plus made up terms and conditions from Bank of Scotland.

 

Gaz

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So What you have is a ''reconstituted'' agreement I think, this app form is it signed and dated?

For a recon there must be the following details, your name and address at the inception of the

account, ditto for the creditor.

The Ts&Cs at the inception any amendments and the Ts&Cs at the closure of the account.

Can you post up a redacted copy of the app form pls.

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Your user name here is not known to them is it, as long as you don't leave account numbers

names and other personal identifiers visible there is not likely to be a problem.

Giving the name of DCAs and Creditors will help you get you the correct advice from those

experienced in dealing with particular organisations.

 

This does not take into account that I am paranoid, I much prefer to keep the other accounts under wraps and stick to general advice.

 

I am sure you will have noticed I do ask rather a lot of generic questions rather than specific ones to each problem.

 

I do not think the DCAs are stupid at all. I think they hold the punters in utter contempt and are quite happy to break all the rules knowing that their chances of anything other than a slapped wrist are minute.

Should they get a real slap then thy shrug their shoulders and carry on regardless. For every upheld complaint I guess there are 1000's of confused punters paying up and lining their pockets.

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You are right to be wary ncm, there was a case a while ago and I think it was Restons who turned up to court with copies of the caggers thread!

 

But I agree with Brig that asking general questions won't necessarily work for you because no one will know who you are dealing with and may give you duff information. Some DCA's can be more aggressive but there are others that will run away if you show any sign of knowing your stuff!

 

I would be surprised if the DCA's trawl the forums initially but may look at new cases that go into the legal forum when a claim has been issued so that is the time to be wary and not give too much info regarding the amount of the claim, which may make it instantly recognisable.

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and they LOST!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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yes the real point......................

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So What you have is a ''reconstituted'' agreement I think, this app form is it signed and dated?

For a recon there must be the following details, your name and address at the inception of the

account, ditto for the creditor.

The Ts&Cs at the inception any amendments and the Ts&Cs at the closure of the account.

Can you post up a redacted copy of the app form pls.

 

Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

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Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

This is definitely wrong a Formal Complaint to The Data Controller now is the way to go, they cannot manipulate data in this way.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Hi Brigadier

 

Thanks for looking at this for me, is there a template letter i could use so i can send to the data controller.

I was also going to send the DCA a letter telling them that they have failed to produce the information that i originally asked for i.e copy of my agreement.

 

Gaz

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Hi desperate Daneiella

 

Yes, they do seem a bit dopey as i cant see how they can use an application with another account number trying to say that this is your agreement and send me a made up agreement with another company and account number. lol.

 

Gaz

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Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for helping me in this matter.

I was going to send the DCA this letter.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of an application form plus another companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending this information out is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signatureC:\Users\gary\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

What do you think, or should i stay silent in replying to there letter.

 

Gaz

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Question for the 'big guns'

 

The above looks detailed and impressive.

 

But, is it up to 'Gaz' to tell the DCA where the problems are, or should he simply tell them that what they have sent is unacceptable as there are omissions from the statutory requirements and let the DCA sort out the problems.

 

I.e. is it up to the alleged debtor to do the DCAs work for them?

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I.e. is it up to the alleged debtor to do the DCAs work for them?

 

No NEVER!

 

This includes answering any of their 'phishing' letters that claim that if you don't contact them they will just 'assume' you are the person they are looking for and will commence with their powerless harassment strategy.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Brigadier

 

Yes, its a reconstructed Ts&Cs from Bank of Scotland which never owned Halifax at that time.

The Application form i posted already in post one, which is a different account number to which they are asking for.

 

Gaz

 

Ok Gazza,

 

To The Data Controller

HBOS

 

Formal Complaint.

Ref: use theirs.

 

Sir/Madam,

 

I refer to my recent request made for information under sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, having reviewed the documents supplied I have concluded that the documents DO NOT Satisfy my Lawful Request under the Act.

 

If the documents are intended to represent a ''reconstituted agreement'' they fail immediately as they are Bank of Scotland ''terms and conditions'' not those of Halifax that owned the account in question, therefore the agreement is rejected and remains in dispute.

 

I am sure the bank is fully aware as to what MUST be included in a document or documents to form ''reconstituted agreement, so I will not waste further time in explaining this.

 

There is a further point also that invalidates the ''reconstituted agreement'' and that is the agreement being pursued for payment is number xxxxxxxx where as the ''application'' form supplied as being relevant to this account is numbered xxxxxxxxxx.

 

For clarification the data supplied by HBOS is rejected as flawed at best and as a work of fiction intended to deceive at worst, therefore ALL liability for this aaccount is denied.

 

This letter is sent by RM recorded/signed for delivery and its receipt WILL be checked.

 

get that away on Monday Gazza.

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Hi Brigadier

 

Thank you for your time in helping me with this matter, the letter looks great to send them.

I'll get it in the post first thing tomorrow.

 

Gaz

 

You're welcome Gaz please let me know the result!

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Gaz, yep standard letter, the have up to 56 days to produce a response.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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  • 2 weeks later...

This has been dragging on for nearly five years now, if they had anything then they would have taken action sooner.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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